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  1. #76
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Killing Cyclops at that specific time in that specific way was moronic, but it actually was a coincidence that the franchise hit a nadir while three out of a million characters were dead at the same time.
    heroine addict we love you come back

  2. #77
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    The thing about removing characters like Magneto and Emma from the X-Men is that you end up with every character having the same moral alignment and agenda and as a result all of the tension in the team has to come from.... wait for it... romantic entanglements oh hey I just found out why the books have been so bad and intellectually demeaning over the last few years

  3. #78
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    This maybe a touchy subject and i hope it doesn derail into shipping drama.

    I think much of her development and spotlight came on an era were Jean wasn't there. Yeah it started before Jean died but her true ascension on popularity and on the x-men came after Jean was gone.
    But i'm not sure things could stay the same the moment Jean came back. Jean and Emma are very connected but sadly not in the right way. If one shines the other suffers.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    These characters are not real and nobody loves each other for real. They will dump and love people even if it makes no sense just to for the sake of it.
    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.

  4. #79
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    I only bring Bishop up for these discussions because they're both extremely blatant character assassinations. One of which you bring up every single time. So I bring up Bishop. Get the issue?
    People still forgive Emma easily, even if she was a villain before. But Bishop is rarely forgiven. get it?

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    People still forgive Emma easily, even if she was a villain before. But Bishop is rarely forgiven. get it?
    Maybe because she's been a hero for longer than a villain, but editorial has a nostalgia fetish?

    She was a villain from 1982-1990. She was a hero from 1992-2010.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Well in my opinion the thing is that all the other "complicated/questionable" characters that became X-men have for the most part stayed on the straight and narrow and have done their best to change for the better. I do not see that with Emma, I don't think she ever took being X-man seriously, never understood what being one meant. It's like she was paying lip service and enjoyed a position of privilege on account of her relationship with Scott. She was disrespectful, rude, snobbish, snidely arrogant and shallow. She never made a concerted effort to be better because she never regretted anything she did, no matter how despicable. And her fans loved her for it. So I can see and understand JDW stance regarding Emma, she just never truly fit in with the X-men. She never embraced what they were really about and what it truly meant to wear the X insignia.
    She never formed bonds with anyone. She will always go back to her ways, she is very extremist

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    This maybe a touchy subject and i hope it doesn derail into shipping drama.

    I think much of her development and spotlight came on an era were Jean wasn't there. Yeah it started before Jean died but her true ascension on popularity and on the x-men came after Jean was gone.
    But i'm not sure things could stay the same the moment Jean came back. Jean and Emma are very connected but sadly not in the right way. If one shines the other suffers.
    A major problem is the editorial belief that the X-Men only need one telepath at a time. It makes it so Jean and Emma can't be in the same area for long. It makes it so Rachel gets shunted elsewhere whenever Jean is around. It makes it so writers forget Psylocke is a telepath in favor of her just being a telekinetic ninja.

    Once that concept goes away, then things can improve.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    The thing about removing characters like Magneto and Emma from the X-Men is that you end up with every character having the same moral alignment and agenda and as a result all of the tension in the team has to come from.... wait for it... romantic entanglements oh hey I just found out why the books have been so bad and intellectually demeaning over the last few years
    X-men always had tension from romance. And the last few years had magneto on x-men teams. So this is pure BS
    Last edited by spirit2011; 05-26-2019 at 06:50 PM.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    She never formed bonds with anyone. She will always go back to her ways, she is very extremist
    Just like Bishop will always go back to being a dimension hopping mass murderer, right? Or is it only character assassination when it's a character you like?
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    The thing about removing characters like Magneto and Emma from the X-Men is that you end up with every character having the same moral alignment and agenda and as a result all of the tension in the team has to come from.... wait for it... romantic entanglements oh hey I just found out why the books have been so bad and intellectually demeaning over the last few years
    Yep. Although similar tension can be achieved with Cyclops being more removed from Xavier's dream...no, wait, he was dead and now Rosenberg wants to make him more anti-killing than Spider-Man. There's also Wolverine..no, wait, he's dead and even when he was alive, characters were willing to worship and give him a pass for behaviors that they criticized in others, specially Cyclops. So, yeah, you're right.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Maybe because she's been a hero for longer than a villain, but editorial has a nostalgia fetish?

    She was a villain from 1982-1990. She was a hero from 1992-2010.
    That's real world time, how about in-universe time? Going by her age (however old she's supposed to be) has she been a "hero" longer than a villain, was she an X-man longer than a Hellfire club member? I would think no.

  12. #87
    Fantastic Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    I enjoy interviews with JDW. I think he is a fun person and I used to enjoy X-men Monday when it was on his twitter. I hate that he seems to have a negative view of this board. They casually mentioned a message board and pretty sure he means this one. I think the negativity towards us is because so many of us have expressed disdain for both Disassembled and Age of X-man.

    I came back to the X-men after an absence for a few years, and I came back due to Teen Jean, the Jean Grey solo, and the Iceman solo. I enjoyed Blue and Gold though both had issues. I loved X-men Red. Right now I'm excited for Hickman but the current Uncanny run and Age of X-man has made it really tough to keep the excitement going. I do have faith that the X-men is about to get a lot better.

    I wish creators didn't hate the fans (celebs hate their fans, teachers hate their students - it is so old and tired). I think creators take it personally when we vocalize how much we dislike their work. I get it. I feel guilty sometimes for expressing how much I dislike the X-books at the moment. I want to enjoy them.

    I hope JDW doesn't become one of those editors that constantly feels the need to knock on the fans. I also hope he sees the support from those who are fans of the current X-books because we know they exist.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    She never formed bonds with anyone.
    Besides with Scott, Emma bonded with many of her students, with Hank, and had decent relationships with most of the X-men.

  14. #89
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    That's real world time, how about in-universe time? Going by her age (however old she's supposed to be) has she been a "hero" longer than a villain, was she an X-man longer than a Hellfire club member? I would think no.
    Incorrect. Going by in-universe time, she was with the HFC from age 22 to age 24, taught the Hellions til age 25, then was with the X-Men from 26 to 28-30 (depending on what time scale you use). So villain for 3 years in universe, 4-5 hero.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    That's real world time, how about in-universe time? Going by her age (however old she's supposed to be) has she been a "hero" longer than a villain, was she an X-man longer than a Hellfire club member? I would think no.
    You're wrong. Her established backstory doesn't have her as a HFC member for that long before she meets the X-men.

    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I enjoy interviews with JDW. I think he is a fun person and I used to enjoy X-men Monday when it was on his twitter. I hate that he seems to have a negative view of this board. They casually mentioned a message board and pretty sure he means this one. I think the negativity towards us is because so many of us have expressed disdain for both Disassembled and Age of X-man.

    I came back to the X-men after an absence for a few years, and I came back due to Teen Jean, the Jean Grey solo, and the Iceman solo. I enjoyed Blue and Gold though both had issues. I loved X-men Red. Right now I'm excited for Hickman but the current Uncanny run and Age of X-man has made it really tough to keep the excitement going. I do have faith that the X-men is about to get a lot better.

    I wish creators didn't hate the fans (celebs hate their fans, teachers hate their students - it is so old and tired). I think creators take it personally when we vocalize how much we dislike their work. I get it. I feel guilty sometimes for expressing how much I dislike the X-books at the moment. I want to enjoy them.

    I hope JDW doesn't become one of those editors that constantly feels the need to knock on the fans. I also hope he sees the support from those who are fans of the current X-books because we know they exist.
    Creators can't expect people to enjoy everything they put on, specially with characters that have such a following and aren't really their property, like the Marvel ones.

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