Should Jean Grey have stayed dead after Dark Phoenix Saga?

[Conn Seanery]

Folks, I don't want to see any more posts about whether this thread should exist or not. Stay on topic or post elsewhere, no one's forcing you to read this thread.

[PrezValentine]

I don't see why the question is illegitimate. Claremont himself wanted her to stay dead in the 80's.

After he did the deed, sure. Before that, he wanted her to retire along with Scott and maybe return when the situation called for it. Could have worked, maybe. His current stance is that "if she survives, it's not actually DPS, period, it's what Byrne and I originally conceived" as per a recent interview, when it comes to adaptations of the storyline.

[jmc247]

I have always felt Marvel should have a decade understood rule that when they are killing off characters to wait at least that long before they return characters that died. The lack of that kind of minimum has rendered death into something of a joke which robs stories of their emotional power.

[SiegePerilous02]

No, but they definitely should have found a better way to resurrect her. The "it was never really her" stuff was stupid as all get out, and actually does more to tarnish the DPS story than actually resurrecting her. Jean's a phoenix, death and rebirth is part of her whole deal. Her coming back sooner or later seems pretty inevitable.

The Phoenix Egg concept is far superior. It's too bad something like it couldn't have been thought up back in the 80s, and I'm glad Morrison established it and pretty much quietly ignored the "Phoenix Force Double" stuff and treated it as if it had always been Jean.

[Omega Alpha]

I have always felt Marvel should have a decade understood rule that when they are killing off characters to wait at least that long before they return characters that died. The lack of that kind of minimum has rendered death into something of a joke which robs stories of their emotional power.

Even better is the Bucky example- Bucky's death was essential to Steve's character, as a failure he never really got over, like Uncle Ben to Spider-Man. So, we got Winter Soldier, who not only was an awesome character in his own right, but he had a fate worse than death, so Steve's guilt remains.

[CRaymond]

No, but they definitely should have found a better way to resurrect her. The "it was never really her" stuff was stupid as all get out, and actually does more to tarnish the DPS story than actually resurrecting her. Jean's a phoenix, death and rebirth is part of her whole deal. Her coming back sooner or later seems pretty inevitable.

The Phoenix Egg concept is far superior. It's too bad something like it couldn't have been thought up back in the 80s, and I'm glad Morrison established it and pretty much quietly ignored the "Phoenix Force Double" stuff and treated it as if it had always been Jean.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

[Star_Jammer]

I'm of the opinion she should have never died in the first place.

Silly wiminz and their power trips, amirite?

[theoneandonly]

one could theorize that jean died the moment she became Phoenix and her character was subverted to her detriment by the cosmic bird.

[JudicatorPrime]

I love Jean, but yes, she should have remained dead after DPS. The Phoenix Force should have died with her in that moment, albeit to be reincarnated from its own ashes in another part of the omniverse far, far away from Earth and her concerns. Jean would have been the last human Phoenix. Rachel, though I love her as well, would not be a Phoenix. She would be an extremely powerful psi whose abilities mimicked the PF in honor of her mother, but who actually was not in anyway directly connected to the true PF.

[Souther]

I am not feeling particularly strongly about this. From a purely writing-related perspective, I suppose she should probably have stayed dead. Not because there's anything inherently strange about characters coming back from the dead in comics, nor will I claim that Jean Grey hasn't participated in good stories after her original "resurrection" took place, but simply because I like the concept of important deaths having a lasting legacy as a way to open up more storytelling opportunities for both old and new characters.

[davetvs]

No. I understand the desire to have character deaths remain permanent but not for a character named Phoenix.

[gurkle]

The ironic thing is that Jean in some ways had a bigger presence in Uncanny X-Men when she was dead than when she was alive, at least to begin with.

It's like the rule that a character who is offstage can dominate a play if all the other characters are talking about them. Jean was "offstage" after #137 but everyone was talking about her all the time. She came back in fake-outs, fantasies, illusions and doppelgängers. Dark Phoenix was the main focus of the big X-Men/Teen Titans crossover. Her shadow was all over the book.

Then when X-Factor and Fantastic Four and Avengers revived her behind Claremont's back, she was really taken away from him, even after Louise Simonson took over writing her. It took a long time for her to be re-integrated into the modern X-Men instead of mostly just hanging around the original X-Men.

And the revived Jean eventually did become an important part of the mainstream X-Men for a long time, so I'd hesitate to say that it was a mistake bringing her back - but by that time characters were coming back so often that they would probably have revived her anyway, without the silly Jamaica Bay retcon.

[Killerbee911]

Jean should stay have dead, Her death was the "Uncle Ben" impact death for the X-men. I don't mind a character named Phoenix being brought back but her death was probably the most impactful in the franchise and allowed you to keep characters dead because if Jean Grey is dead then any important character can stay dead regardless of popularity and importance. I am fine with her being alive but her death and her staying dead was good for the franchise.

Lastly just because her name was Phoenix does mean "duh she has to come back to life". It would be acceptable that the Phoenix entity is reborn and Jean Grey is part of it thus is also reborn in a way and living up to the name. Once again I am fine in fact happy that she was brought back multiple times but the X-men is a better franchise if death means something and her staying dead sets the tone.

[CoCoBandz]

She should never have "died" during DPS.

[Grey]

There’s so many facets to this question that make it so hard to answer concisely - all of the retcons in particular.

If the Phoenix is a cosmic force I’m fine with the resurrection but only because it’s called a Phoenix and we all know what they are known for.

If we are simply talking about what would have resulted in the story having maximum impact and legacy, I think she should’ve stayed dead. And I say that even as a huge jean fan. DPS was such a great story and going out like that is one hell of an ending. I disagree with the idea that being a fan of a character means you HAVE to want them to remain alive. I care more about a good story than my favorite character staying alive.


But anyway, yea, there’s just too many variables here for
Me to answer this easily.