Tom King's Thoughts On Wally West

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

Explain to me how this is Wally West, then. I'm all ears. I love the character down to my bones and I've never been more disgusted or insulted by a piece of work involving him. It literally flies in the face of everything he ever did or stood for as a character. It's like turning Superman into a Nihilist or Batman into a simpleton serial killer. Wally West, abusive, psychotic, criminal mastermind, who also is basically a bomb with legs. There are villains who are better people than Wally, now. How can you like Wally West and like what HiC has done with him? How are these compatible to anyone? It's a sickening destruction of him and the concept of living with mental trauma, yet that's good?

Like seriously, what does a writer have to do to a character to justify it being blasphemy towards said character? Because HiC certainly hits that bar for me and goes way fucking below said bar.

I'm really curious, what does all this mean for your relationship with the character? Will you no longer read about Wally in the future? Are you dropping books because of HiC? Are you done with DC altogether?

You've obviously been very passionate about HiC on the boards and it's obvious that a line in the sand has been drawn with you. I'm just curious what that line is and what it means for you.

[Dred]

I'll complain about it because it is literally the only power I have. My dollar doesn't amount to much and my reading list has dwindled over the past two years regardless. I'm the kind of fan DC doesn't care about in the first place.

Maybe Wally will get his own stupid space bug one day. It's about the only hope for him. It's just mortifying that a character I spent years investing in I've spent just as many years being torn down by. It's unhealthy and I understand it, but that is how passion and hobbies work sometimes. If I just threw my hands up and went away then I've not really helped my cause at all.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

The cover up is not his real crime(at least not his only one). His real crime is hacking into a super ai to forcefully, and against the consent of all involved, read the medical records of dozens of people. Many of who trust him and consider him their friend. He was the impetus for everything bad that happened. He's also now a dangerous walking bomb who can NEVER AGAIN be trusted to be a hero for fear of him exploding and killing innocent people like he did today.

THEN he killed a bunch of people, which on its best face is mass negligent slaughter. Just because you didn't mean to run your semi into a bus full of school children doesn't mean you're free of blame. That's life sentence **** there. Not to mention he never mentioned his condition to anyone, despite apparently knowing he could explode and kill people since he was a child. Hyper negligence!

AND THEN he did the cover up AND framing of two innocent people, which was literally a split second away from Booster dying (because Barbara is a fucking idiot). Imagine a world where a less savory vigilante comes across the two thought to be responsible for killing all those people. Jason probably puts a bullet in Harley's head (of course, she'd easily beat him up, but that's beside the point). Framing two people for mass murder and siccing them on each other is not just extremely criminal, it's viciously and psychopathically manipulative.

And what caused all this? What made Wally become one of the worst criminals in superhero society?

Seeking out treatment at a mental health facility. The absolute worst fucking message anyone can give about mental health -- seeking health leads to mass death, violence, mistrust, abuse, and incarceration of the mentally ill. Thanks Tom King. What a wonderful look into trauma -- don't get it or you become either dead or a monster.

How is this any worse than Harley Quinn?

[Dred]

How is this any different than Harley Quinn?

I explained this earlier in the thread.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

I explained this earlier in the thread.

She’s not being a hero because she feels bad about murdering other people. She’s doing it because she felt used and abused and wants to show Joker she’s better than him.

She’s doing it for selfish reason than regret. So how is that any better?

[Dred]

She’s not being a hero because she feels bad about murdering other people. She’s doing it because she felt used and abused and wants to show Joker she’s better than him.

I never said she did? I said how their situations, and thus the context, was different. Going from bad guy to good guy is different from going to good guy to bad guy. There was and frankly is no expectation or standard Harley is held to and because of her status any bad things she did are waived over. Wally is one of the greatest heroes in history. It's Emerald Twilight only Wally also has been getting the short end of the stick for 15 years prior to it. And, let me tell you, Wally's status won't get him anywhere.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

I never said she did? I said how their situations, and thus the context, was different. Going from bad guy to good guy is different from going to good guy to bad guy. There was and frankly is no expectation or standard Harley is held to and because of her status any bad things she did are waived over. Wally is one of the greatest heroes in history. It's Emerald Twilight only Wally also has been getting the short end of the stick for 15 years prior to it. And, let me tell you, Wally's status won't get him anywhere.

If they can make Harley a mass murdering psychopath likeable, they can do the same to Wally since he would atleast be capable of showing remorse.

But I do agree it won’t happen till Didio is gone. That’s why we have to vote with our wallet. But I guess as long as Batman or Batman related books or hate buying event books can keep DC’s average sales high, he won’t go.

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

I'll complain about it because it is literally the only power I have. My dollar doesn't amount to much and my reading list has dwindled over the past two years regardless. I'm the kind of fan DC doesn't care about in the first place.

Maybe Wally will get his own stupid space bug one day. It's about the only hope for him. It's just mortifying that a character I spent years investing in I've spent just as many years being torn down by. It's unhealthy and I understand it, but that is how passion and hobbies work sometimes. If I just threw my hands up and went away then I've not really helped my cause at all.

I didn't mean for that to sound accusatory, if it did. I was just curious about where you were coming from.

It really does suck what's happened to Wally in the last decade. The entire Flash family has been so mishandled. I really hope he gets treated properly someday too. I really do want to be around for that. The more they pull this kind of stuff the less waiting around feels worth it though and really, it just makes me wonder if that 247 issue run isn't enough to enjoy on it's own merits, without keeping up with anything after that. Is it really worth having the football constantly pulled out at this point?

Like I said. They got until Snyders JL Crisis or whatever the hell it is thing next year to make this right or it becomes clear that I'm not longer their target audience.

Wally will never be the main Flash again. Wally will never have a 247 issue long comic again. I can accept that. It would just be nice if they gave me SOMETHING to work with.

[Dred]

If they can make Harley a mass murdering psychopath likeable, they can do the same to Wally since he would atleast be capable of showing remorse.

But I do agree it won’t happen till Didio is gone. That’s why we have to vote with our wallet. But I guess as long as Batman or Batman related books or hate buying event books can keep DC’s average sales high, he won’t go.

Harley was turned into an Anti-hero. Her negative, criminal past limits where she is at heroically.

Wally is the literal opposite of that. And they've devolved him into this.

[Johnny]

Explain to me how this is Wally West, then. I'm all ears. I love the character down to my bones and I've never been more disgusted or insulted by a piece of work involving him. It literally flies in the face of everything he ever did or stood for as a character. It's like turning Superman into a Nihilist or Batman into a simpleton serial killer. Wally West, abusive, psychotic, criminal mastermind, who also is basically a bomb with legs. There are villains who are better people than Wally, now. How can you like Wally West and like what HiC has done with him? How are these compatible to anyone? It's a sickening destruction of him and the concept of living with mental trauma, yet that's good?

Like seriously, what does a writer have to do to a character to justify it being blasphemy towards said character? Because HiC certainly hits that bar for me and goes way fucking below said bar.

Or Green Lantern into a deranged murderer. As if something like that would ever happen.

[Dred]

Or Green Lantern into a deranged murderer. As if something like that would ever happen.

Yes, one of the most highly criticized creative decisions in DC history that they eventually retconned with a stupid space bug to completely absolve the entire act. That decision. That's what you're comparing it to.

[dornwolf]

Yes, one of the most highly criticized creative decisions in DC history that they eventually retconned with a stupid space bug to completely absolve the entire act. That decision. That's what you're comparing it to.

Let's be 100 percent honest here, that's basically what they are going to do in the future. Either hand wave it away or something really dumb that we all just "Yup" and move on with.

[Johnny]

Yes, one of the most highly criticized creative decisions in DC history that they eventually retconned with a stupid space bug to completely absolve the entire act. That decision. That's what you're comparing it to.

Then let's hope Wally gets his own stupid space bug down the line too and everything will be forgiven. Maybe it will not completely wash away the stain like it didn't with Hal since it still gives people the opportunity to vilify and demonize him 25 years after the fact, but it would be a start. And likely won't take a decade for Wally to be absolved.

[Dred]

Let's be 100 percent honest here, that's basically what they are going to do in the future. Either hand wave it away or something really dumb that we all just "Yup" and move on with.

DC does not care about Wally like they care about Hal. They probably don't even view this in the same realm as ET.

Then let's hope Wally gets his own stupid space bug down the line too and everything will be forgiven. Maybe it will not completely wash away the stain like it didn't with Hal since it still gives people the opportunity to vilify and demonize him 25 years after the fact, but it would be a start. And likely won't take a decade for Wally to be absolved.

Why in the world would you, after all these years, expect anything good for Wally? I'd imagine it will take longer because there is no clamor or hurry to make Wally the one true Flash again like there was Hal. Most people are ambivalent about Wally in the gutter.

[Punjabi_Hitman]

Then let's hope Wally gets his own stupid space bug down the line too and everything will be forgiven. Maybe it will not completely wash away the stain like it didn't with Hal since it still gives people the opportunity to vilify and demonize him, but it would be a start. And likely won't take a decade to happen.

Why can’t he just turn himself in and serve his time, and then actually work towards being a better person because of all the remorse he feels from what he did and actually have some good character growth going forward instead of chickening out and retconning it and removing any chance at possibly some good stories in the future?