Tom King's Thoughts On Wally West

[cranger]

Just that how he was written and handled in this story seems to fly in the face of everything Wally represents within the DCU and as a character.

But nothing genuinely "hopeful" comes across to me in Heroes in Crisis. Otherwise Wally wouldn't be where he is.

Well the just about every other page shows the hopefulness that is a result. As for Wally, he became his own hope. Obviously this is not the end of his story, as this article points out it sets the stage for his next steps.

[Frontier]

Well the just about every other page shows the hopefulness that is a result. As for Wally, he became his own hope. Obviously this is not the end of his story, as this article points out it sets the stage for his next steps.

All that feels disingenuous to me after what we've seen of Sanctuary and what they've turned Wally into.

Harley Quinn gets her happy ending while Wally West becomes a murderer and gets thrown into a Justice League prison.

That's just not genuine to me.

[cranger]

All that feels disingenuous to me after what we've seen of Sanctuary and what they've turned Wally into.

Harley Quinn gets her happy ending while Wally West becomes a murderer and gets thrown into a Justice League prison.

That's just not genuine to me.

I don't care for the Harley stuff at all, but I separate that from Wally (especially if Harley was pushed on King and DC seems to want to push her to be a 'hero'.) I also don't care for holding Wally accountable for what is clearly an accident, not even manslaughter in my opinion. That is a weak point especially when Sanctuary was designed because they recognized the need for the mental treatment. So no argument there.

Now, maybe if the last scene somehow shows Wally taken somewhere else, not as punishment, but because even if the League understood and did not blame him there would be many who lost someone close who would still feel Wally was at fault, and either for his own protection or to make it seem like he was given a pass he is removed from public sight. So, if Wally is not seemingly imprisoned by the JL, is the story better? Hopeful?

Regardless, I think even the hope that all those characters show throughout the book is more than enough, even if some feel the redemption angle for Wally is not needed or wanted.

[BohemiaDrinker]

My experience is limited to DC Rebirth and a the first arc of Titans (Rebirth.)

Ok, sorry, but I guess you just don't understand how big a **** you to the character, his fans, and readers in general this was then. Not a shot at you, by the way, I was genuinely curious.

Question: what about Wally makes him a bad choice? I am going to guess that we just have different takeaways from this story because I think the way Wally manages to find the strength reveal to the world the pain and makes it easier for others to find hope in dealing with it fits very much with the spirit of what Wally was bring back to DC.

The "Wally" in this story is both a genius (which he never was) and stupid (which he also never was). The Wally in this story defines the Speed Force as a burden - which goes against every single piece of the character's history. The "Wally" in this story gets broken by situations that he faced before one too many times, and solved. The "Wally" in this story ignores obvious solutions to obvious problems when, throughout his career as Flash, the one consistent most defining trait of the character was that he was a problem solver. The "Wally" in this story is virtually unfazed by killing one of his childhood friends, which is absurd and disgusting in all ways possible. The "Wally" in this story refused to go for the obvious solution because "Barry tried and failed", while doing things that Barry couldn't is basically his whole career (and yes, that includes Time Travel. And yes, he screwed up and then fixed many times, and yes, he knew how). The "Wally" in this story allowed himself to be defined and overcome by loss, which again goes against everything the character ever was. The "Wally" in this story, a guy that made a point to tell muthafucking Batman "you only touched me because I allowed it", now apparently allowed himself to be kicked in the balls by a sad excuse of a sexualized clown-girl because "he deserved it, I guess".

I could go on. I could go on forever, actually; but this self-defeating, incompetent and stupid red-headed man in a glorified Kid-Flash costume is not Wally West, is not a convincing or valid take in Wally West, and this story did not go to places with Wally West where writers haven't gone before.

This is not de-construction, this is plain right destruction.

And don't get me wrong, there have been many, many "**** yous" from DC and it's editorial to Wally West and his fans for the last 13 years or so (and hey, I'd be happy to list them all and explain context at another occasion when I have the time), but this takes the cake. This is just DC bullying and trolling it's own fans.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Now, maybe if the last scene somehow shows Wally taken somewhere else, not as punishment, but because even if the League understood and did not blame him there would be many who lost someone close who would still feel Wally was at fault, and either for his own protection or to make it seem like he was given a pass he is removed from public sight. So, if Wally is not seemingly imprisoned by the JL, is the story better? Hopeful?

Proper Wally would give the League the middle finger, they wanting to punish him or not.

[Dred]

I don't care for the Harley stuff at all, but I separate that from Wally (especially if Harley was pushed on King and DC seems to want to push her to be a 'hero'.) I also don't care for holding Wally accountable for what is clearly an accident, not even manslaughter in my opinion. That is a weak point especially when Sanctuary was designed because they recognized the need for the mental treatment. So no argument there.

Now, maybe if the last scene somehow shows Wally taken somewhere else, not as punishment, but because even if the League understood and did not blame him there would be many who lost someone close who would still feel Wally was at fault, and either for his own protection or to make it seem like he was given a pass he is removed from public sight. So, if Wally is not seemingly imprisoned by the JL, is the story better? Hopeful?

Regardless, I think even the hope that all those characters show throughout the book is more than enough, even if some feel the redemption angle for Wally is not needed or wanted.

Wally is responsible. He was negligent, abusive of his powers, and invaded the privacy of dozens of people in highly criminal ways. Do you not think mutilating the dead bodies of the people he killed and framing two innocent people are bad things to do? Because let me tell you, in our world, if you did what Wally did you would never get out of jail. It's not just illegal, it's fucking heinous.

[king81992]

Wally is responsible. He was negligent, abusive of his powers, and invaded the privacy of dozens of people in highly criminal ways. Do you not think mutilating the dead bodies of the people he killed and framing two innocent people are bad things to do? Because let me tell you, in our world, if you did what Wally did you would never get out of jail. It's not just illegal, it's fucking heinous.

The negligent ones were the JL who set up Sanctuary in the first place. This does not absolve Wally of his crimes though.

[Dred]

The negligent ones were the JL who set up Sanctuary in the first place. This does not absolve Wally of his crimes though.

Nope, for every single other person besides Wally Sanctuary was an amazing, effective, and great place. That's why the end of the comic shows it opened again like nothing's changed.

Wally was the problem. Wally is a walking bomb who, when he explodes, will then abuse his own powers to do whatever he wants regardless of morality. Sanctuary was excellent until Wally came along and, because he's a broken monster, destroyed everything about it.

[king81992]

Nope, for every single other person besides Wally Sanctuary was an amazing, effective, and great place. That's why the end of the comic shows it opened again like nothing's changed.

Wally was the problem. Wally is a walking bomb who, when he explodes, will then abuse his own powers to do whatever he wants regardless of morality. Sanctuary was excellent until Wally came along and, because he's a broken monster, destroyed everything about it.

The only person at Sanctuary who seemed to be in the verge of a breakthrough was Gnarrk. Everyone else was engaging in escapism via virtual reality of using VR to relive their own trauma.

It's dishonest story telling by King to pretend that Sanctuary wasn't the problem. Sanctuary should only be reopened if they have actually psychiatrists working there now.

[Dred]

The only person at Sanctuary who seemed to be in the verge of a breakthrough was Gnarrk. Everyone else was engaging in escapism via virtual reality of using VR to relive their own trauma.

It's dishonest story telling by King to pretend that Sanctuary wasn't the problem. Sanctuary should only be reopened if they have actually psychiatrists working there now.

Wally himself said it was working great until he had his bout of insanity. Lagoon Boy literally just got over his stuff right before dying. Everyone talks about how it's this great and wonderful thing. Superman gives a speech talking about how it's great.

Wally is the failure, Sanctuary is not. Sanctuary was up and running again right in the epilogue because the point was not that Sanctuary failed. Wally failed.

[Rakiduam]

My experience is limited to DC Rebirth and a the first arc of Titans (Rebirth.)

Question: what about Wally makes him a bad choice? I am going to guess that we just have different takeaways from this story because I think the way Wally manages to find the strength reveal to the world the pain and makes it easier for others to find hope in dealing with it fits very much with the spirit of what Wally was bring back to DC.

This is a pattern I have started to notice with King, he write great stories as long as is not a character you like or know.

It was character assassination, if that is a symbol for Rebith, then there isn't many hopes for DC left.

[Blue22]

I also don't care for holding Wally accountable for what is clearly an accident, not even manslaughter in my opinion. That is a weak point especially when Sanctuary was designed because they recognized the need for the mental treatment. So no argument there.

The deaths themselves were a slightly understandable accident (I say slightly because it wouldn't have happened if his nosy ass hadn't decided to snoop around other people's files). What wasn't an accident were the lengths he went to to pin the deaths on two people who did nothing. Said lengths included fucking time travel (and yet, for some reason, using time travel to stop the deaths from happening in the first place was out of the question. I know he gave a reason for why he didn't but that made about as much sense as the rest of this story). That is why Wally needs to be accountable for his actions. Not because he accidentally killed a bunch of people. But because he was willing to ruin two more lives and defile the bodies of his friends to make sure nobody knew he did it. Because he had the resources to make it all right and chose not to because...I don't know, suddenly Flashpoint is Barry's fault again.

[Sam]

The only person at Sanctuary who seemed to be in the verge of a breakthrough was Gnarrk. Everyone else was engaging in escapism via virtual reality of using VR to relive their own trauma.

It's dishonest story telling by King to pretend that Sanctuary wasn't the problem. Sanctuary should only be reopened if they have actually psychiatrists working there now.

Thank you. My biggest problem with this story (among many, many problems) is that the whole execution of Sanctuary is so counter to anything that resemble competent mental health treatment. An AI is not a mental professional. Isolating a person from others is harmful, not helpful. A holodeck will only allow people to become trapped in their trauma and not move past it. Confessionals to an unmanned camera does not help people with trauma the way a qualified mental health professional does.

It's just mind boggling how stupid the execution was. It was like Tom King researched overcoming mental trauma and proceed to portray the exact opposite of that.

[Talon1load]

Wally himself said it was working great until he had his bout of insanity. Lagoon Boy literally just got over his stuff right before dying. Everyone talks about how it's this great and wonderful thing. Superman gives a speech talking about how it's great.

Wally is the failure, Sanctuary is not. Sanctuary was up and running again right in the epilogue because the point was not that Sanctuary failed. Wally failed.

Sanctuary was in no way a success. King just said it was without showing anything. Lagoon Boy wasn’t better. He was punishing himself over and over. Sanctuary was set up with no real doctors, no oversight, no one who knew anything about mental health, nothing. It should have NEVER been a thing and damn sure should not have been reopened after 30 heroes were murdered. The AI failed to see that Wally was not really progressing and was on the verge of a breakdown. Yeah, King said he was doing fine before but there were obviously underlying issues that the AI failed to pick up on and address. Saying this was just on Wally and that Sanctuary was a success except for the one guy who killed 30 other patients is crap. Even if it had been, the slaughter should have shut it down.

[Dred]

Sanctuary was in no way a success. King just said it was without showing anything. Lagoon Boy wasn’t better. He was punishing himself over and over. Sanctuary was set up with no real doctors, no oversight, no one who knew anything about mental health, nothing. It should have NEVER been a thing and damn sure should not have been reopened after 30 heroes were murdered. The AI failed to see that Wally was not really progressing and was on the verge of a breakdown. Yeah, King said he was doing fine before but there were obviously underlying issues that the AI failed to pick up on and address. Saying this was just on Wally and that Sanctuary was a success except for the one guy who killed 30 other patients is crap. Even if it had been, the slaughter should have shut it down.

Yeah, man, who cares if the writing is shitty. The writing is what happened. Wally is a failure and the only reason Santcuary ever faltered. He was super extra double broken in a unique way. All the blame falls on Wally's shoulders. That's WHY no one says anything else but Wally and his horribly written inner monologue where he literally talks about how he's just not the person capable of being anything else but what King has written.

It doesn't matter if all King can do is tell and not show. That it's horribly written doesn't mean that it isn't written that way.

It's not shut down. Wally is behind bars, Sanctuary is reopened, and Superman just gave a press conference about how great and valuable and important Sanctuary is. Sanctuary is the hero, here. Wally is the villain.