SDCC: Gays in Comics XXVII Takes on the Issues

[CBR News]

Comic book creators discuss the issues facing LGBT representation in comics today -- with a healthy serving of fandom ships on the side.


Full article here.

[RobinFan4880]

Thinking about it, there aren't that many male bi (or bi-curious) characters at either DC or Marvel.

[MykeHavoc]

Think Tynion needs to thicken that beard and grow a belly if he wants a date.
I was unaware of his orientation, but it made sense for him working on Red Hood, since Winick said he wrote him to be bi. I didn't actually read his issues, as he struck me much like Higgins as being Snyder-lite. Were they any good? I remember hearing about him making Red Hood leader of the league of assassins, which is kind if a neat idea.

Was that really it? Kinda light for a panel.

[RobinFan4880]

Think Tynion needs to thicken that beard and grow a belly if he wants a date.
I was unaware of his orientation, but it made sense for him working on Red Hood, since Winick said he wrote him to be bi. I didn't actually read his issues, as he struck me much like Higgins as being Snyder-lite. Were they any good? I remember hearing about him making Red Hood leader of the league of assassins, which is kind if a neat idea.

Tynion's run on Red Hood was not well received. He went in some controversial directions with Jason that the vocal forum goers fervently did not like. Of course, that just seems to be lot for RHatO, it is always swimming in controversy.

[Kieran_Frost]

Thinking about it, there aren't that many male bi (or bi-curious) characters at either DC or Marvel.

Interesting the ONLY LGBT males at Marvel to have ever had a solo on-going (Daken, Herc, Loki) are ALL bisexual. No gay male has EVER had a solo on-going. EVER. No lesbian for that matter...

[Jeremi]

Tynion's run on Red Hood was not well received. He went in some controversial directions with Jason that the vocal forum goers fervently did not like. Of course, that just seems to be lot for RHatO, it is always swimming in controversy.

I liked it way more then what Lobdell was doing that's for sure.

[Thad937]

Interesting article. I'm glad to see that there's diversity at Comic Con.

[RobinFan4880]

Interesting the ONLY LGBT males at Marvel to have ever had a solo on-going (Daken, Herc, Loki) are ALL bisexual. No gay male has EVER had a solo on-going. EVER. No lesbian for that matter...

Dakken can hardly be called positive portrayal of bisexuality. Hercules is going to be sidelined for the foreseeable future. Who knows how long Kid Loki is going to stick around before he's turned back into the miserly old, cackling god of mischief. Also, I am not a fan of the idea that the only male characters who can be both good guys and bisexual are gods and demi-gods.

[Kieran_Frost]

Dakken can hardly be called positive portrayal of bisexuality. Hercules is going to be sidelined for the foreseeable future. Who knows how long Kid Loki is going to stick around before he's turned back into the miserly old, cackling god of mischief. Also, I am not a fan of the idea that the only male characters who can be both good guys and bisexual are gods and demi-gods.

You say there aren't that many bi males. That's not true. In the percentage of LGBT characters (on top of the fact the ONLY LGBT males to get a solo series are bisexual) you have Prodigy, Fantomex, Electro and Swordsman. That may not seem like a lot (that's because there aren't a lot -- in the grand scheme of things-- of LGBT characters; period), but it's a good chunk of the LGBT characters at Marvel. There doesn't seem to be any bias for gay males over bi males, as far as I can tell.

[RobinFan4880]

You say there aren't that many bi males. That's not true. In the percentage of LGBT characters (on top of the fact the ONLY LGBT males to get a solo series are bisexual) you have Prodigy, Fantomex, Electro and Swordsman. That may not seem like a lot (that's because there aren't a lot -- in the grand scheme of things-- of LGBT characters; period), but it's a good chunk of the LGBT characters at Marvel. There doesn't seem to be any bias for gay males over bi males, as far as I can tell.

I was just comparing the Bisexual to the Homosexual list over at the Marvel Database. There is less than 2 pages of Bisexual characters (counting both genders), while over 7 for Homosexual. I wouldn't take the lists to be exhaustive or fully correct (Justin Hammer from the movies is listed as a homosexual). None of the characters you listed (save Progidy) are included in the Bisexual category, nor do their wikipedia articles list them as such, nor does a very quick google image search reveal any outright scenes where they say they are bi or doing bi-related activities.

Progidy was a nice addition but his reveal is very recent and the title he was in ended, who knows when we shall see him again.

I think the bias is towards bi-women over bi-men. Of course a lot of that goes back to that tired old "ladies who play with each other but are otherwise mostly heterosexual are super sexy" trope.

EDIT: I am all for more bi characters, the more the merrier. I like the new takes on Loki and Prodigy. They are certainly the most high profile male bi characters at Marvel right now.

[From The Shadows]

Thinking about it, there aren't that many male bi (or bi-curious) characters at either DC or Marvel.

Bisexuals in general are usually evil like Kraven, Mystique and Daken. Two of those are men but considering how psychotic they have been portrayed that doesn't help really, does it?

Edit: But I think recently X-Men's Prodigy was revealed to be bi-sexual and he's a decent bloke and not a villain.

Edit again: Whoops! Ive seen you found that out already!

[Kieran_Frost]

I was just comparing the Bisexual to the Homosexual list over at the Marvel Database. There is less than 2 pages of Bisexual characters (counting both genders), while over 7 for Homosexual. I wouldn't take the lists to be exhaustive or fully correct (Justin Hammer from the movies is listed as a homosexual). None of the characters you listed (save Progidy) are included in the Bisexual category, nor do their wikipedia articles list them as such, nor does a very quick google image search reveal any outright scenes where they say they are bi or doing bi-related activities.

Progidy was a nice addition but his reveal is very recent and the title he was in ended, who knows when we shall see him again.

I think the bias is towards bi-women over bi-men. Of course a lot of that goes back to that tired old "ladies who play with each other but are otherwise mostly heterosexual are super sexy" trope.

EDIT: I am all for more bi characters, the more the merrier. I like the new takes on Loki and Prodigy. They are certainly the most high profile male bi characters at Marvel right now.

I don't know why are you continually trying to correct me or prove you're right, when your knowledge on the subject is (no offense) limited (case&point: Charlie-Cluster-7 IS Fantomex, Akihiro IS Daken, etc ). Also, did you notice the lists you pulled up have things like (Earth-616) or (Earth-17634) on them? Those designate alternate realities. So the "much larger" homosexual list has Northstar.... 9 times. Herc... 4 times, Karma 6 times, etc. And the problem (and yes I agree, it's ill informed - Shatterstar is not bi, he's pansexual) with that list is (esp. in the case of alternate realities) the "evidence" for gay vs bi is... a panel. A character, appearing in one panel, kissing someone of the same sex would be listed as gay. We spend no time with them (unlike the characters I listed) to know if they are gay, bi or just curious. Also "bi-related activities"??? Like Ricter? (who's gay, but has plenty of opposite sex evidence on a google search); where as Karma (never had a girlfriend) will have no on panel evidence of lesbian activities.

Basically do you just care purely about numbers, with no substance? Because those lists you posted count EVERYONE (random neighbour in background no #7, and such); I assumed (and I could be wrong) you meant characters of note (mostly: heroes and villains); and (mostly discussions like these really only mean 616, not random issue no 8 of Exiles).

http://community.comicbookresources....s-Appreciation
From the Marvel LGBT thread; this is a list (as best as we, the fans, could build). Out of the 61 main characters listed; 33 are male (so far so good; the gender split seems pretty even). Then if we take out the questionable and the T characters (Deadpool, Xavin, etc). So you are left with this:

BI
DAKEN [Daken Akihiro]
ELECTRO [Maxwell 'Max' Dillion]
FANTOMEX [Jean-Phillipe/Charlie-Cluster 7]
HERCULES
LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief
NOH-VAR
PRODIGY [David Alleyne]
SWORDSMAN II [Andreas vonStrucker] [DECEASED]

GAY
AMERICAN ACE [Perry Wade], from All Winner's Squad
ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]
BENJAMIN DEEDS
BLOKE [Mikey Tork] (Peter Milligan’s X-force) [DECEASED]
BLOODSTONE [Cullen Bloodstone]
CAPTAIN FLAME [Frank Cortez], from All Winner's Squad
FIRELORD [Pyreus Kril], Herald of Galactus
FLATMAN [Dr. Val Ventura], Great Lake Avengers
FREEDOM RING [Curtis Doyle] [DECEASED]
GRAYMALKIN [Jonas Graymalkin]
HIROIM THE OLDSTRONG, Warbound [DECEASED]
HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]
KORG, Warbound
LIVING LIGHTNING [Miguel Santos]
MACHINESMITH [Samuel ‘Starr’ Saxon]
THE 'MIGHTY' DESTROYER [Roger Aubrey] ~ Golden Age ~ [DECEASED]
NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier] - MAINSTREAM COMIC'S FIRST OPENLY GAY CHARACTER!
PHAT [William Robert ‘Billy-Bob’ Reilly] [DECEASED]
RAWHIDE KID [Johnny Clay]
RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]
STRIKER [Brandon Sharpe]
TWO-GUN KID [Mark Hawk]
UNION JACK [Brian Falsworth] ~ Golden Age ~ [DECEASED]
VIVISECTOR [Myles Alfred] [DECEASED]
WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan]

8 bi vs 25 gay (bare in mind a few of the gay characters are possibly bi, I don't know the sexuality of all of them, merely added them to the list -- I think Two-Gun might be bi?). So the number of gay males is higher than bisexual males (roughly 1/3). But considering the most recent analysis of LGBT people in America estimate 2.2% of the population is male gay and only 1.4% is male bisexual... the numbers aren't too far off. Add in to the fact the bisexual characters are nearly all famous main cast members of several comics, where as some of the gay characters are coming up to their 10th anniversary of being dead and not mentioned since said death... add into the fact there have been 3/4 (Daken had 2) solo on-going series with bisexual males and a sum total of 0 solo on-going series for gay males at Marvel... (and finally take into account human error of our list) I think it's safe to assume there isn't such a great "bias" at Marvel for gay males over bisexual males. But if you disagree (and something tells me you will ), come to the LGBT thread to continue this, if you'd like.

N.B. also Prodigy is currently in Original Sins, with Noh-vah and Teddy.

[RobinFan4880]

I am not trying to prove any one wrong, just asking for clarification. My searches were legitimate but, admittedly, quick. I have never really searched for comic book characters that share my sexual orientation, so I was a bit... Dissatisfied with what I found when I looked it up earlier today. Even after seeing your list, I am still disheartened.

Quantity and quality are equally important. If all you have is a random list of hundred bi neighbors, then that is bad. If your list only has one A-list Bi character, then that is just as bad. Both are important as they legitimize and normalize a minority's existence.

My biggest problem is that 90% of the characters are C-listers at best. The rest are B-listers save for Loki. Taking the whole list as it is, if you eliminate the anti-heroes, the part-time villains and the actual villains you are left with a shallow pool. Even more troubling is the preponderance of aliens, demi-gods and gods in that pool.

I suppose I just want more "normal" bisexual heroes, like Prodigy.

[QNetter]

Was that really it? Kinda light for a panel.

Roger Klorese, co-moderator, here.

There were some more answers, and more length to many of the ones cited here -- it's not a complete transcription, just a reporting.

And there was one final question I asked both the panel members and members of the audience: if you were in charge of a mainstream entertainment property, whether comics, books, TV, movies, whatever, either (a) what queer character would you add, or (b) what existing character would you have come out, and as what. That, plus the questions from the audience, took about 40 minutes.

Also, one thing that's not obvious from the flow, because the article would be 3x as long: James came out as gay in high school, then as bi in the largely women's college he attended. (As he said about coming out twice, "I don't advise it.") So when he talks about wanting to see more of his queerness reflected in his work and the industry, he's actually speaking as a bi guy.

[MykeHavoc]

I did find that confusing. It sounded as if he was insecure or something. But im straight so what do I know?