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Thread: Identity Crisis

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    And this version of Tim doesn't exist anymore.

    Batman Beyond isn't an elseworld. It is simply a the dcu earth some years ahead according to the multiverse guide. Anyway I used it because that's the only example I've got where Bruce evaluations Damian's detective skills.

    Note I'm not saying that Damian Robin is better detective than current-TimRobin just that he is smarter.
    Batman Beyond IS Elseworld....
    Is Elseworld as long as it doesnt happen in the actual Timeline, which will never happen...

    And No, still think that Tim is MUCH smarter, but we will never see a comparison between them as adults...

  2. #32
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    Damian is better than any robin in skills and smarts due to his upbringing and programming but that makes him only a Gary Stu not a viable person as he is a product of genetic engineering and bred to be the perfect warrior so it's not much of a achievement if he is able to outshine all the others as they are human whereas he is a genetically perfected test tube baby. mind you I am not saying that's totally the reason he excels at everything but it does play a large role. he may well be a mutate super smart like Valeria or moon girl and something more than human like paul Kirk manhunter though of course it may be too soon to say that.
    Last edited by theoneandonly; 05-31-2019 at 02:49 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    here is another panel where Batman assesses the 3 robins in hush

    he evaluates Tim as having the potential to become the world's greatest detective.
    Yeah, Bruce, sure it was seeing being Robin as a game, not him trying to help his mother to be betrayed by her. Yeah. Because it's such a game. Holy mother of God, what's victim blaming?

    This made me remember how much I didn't like Hush. It wasn't because of that at that moment, but, eh, I keep finding reasons to not understanding why some people like that story so much.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 05-31-2019 at 03:56 AM.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    I don't like that panel for the Jason part because it's like Bruce acknowledges Jason killing villain has a point which is what he's been preaching and acting against, which also goes against every time he beats Jason verbally and physically when he actually do the do.

  5. #35

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    Using generic descriptions for the Robinís is just terrible. Dick Grayson just based on his Golden Age stories has his own magic book that leads to a Dream World, Discovered Two Islands, wrote Comic Books, rain Televised charities, set up his own boys and girls club, had TWO Robinmobiles, Saved Batmanís life by replacing the emperor of Atlantis who he looked like etc. and none of those stories I mentioned are relevant to the current day Dick Grayson just like Batman Inc. because continuity has always been in flux and retold with different rules and characters arcs. Dickís original reason for being Robin was his parents and adventure which later evolved to in his 1st solo focusing on community activism/Detective Work and looking out for little people. Now Dick when he is not Ric is dominated by stories revolving around how he compares to Batman. Jason and Tim are different then how there Robinís were written and the same would probably have happened to Damian if he was introduced in the 80ís/90ís

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I don't like that panel for the Jason part because it's like Bruce acknowledges Jason killing villain has a point which is what he's been preaching and acting against, which also goes against every time he beats Jason verbally and physically when he actually do the do.
    It always depends on the writer, but it's not like Bruce hasn't left a villain pretty much dying once or twice.
    It's not really what people think Batman should say, but I can see him actually trying to justify Jason's choices that way (which is why the "Batman doesn't kill" never will be not funny for me).
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    It always depends on the writer, but it's not like Bruce hasn't left a villain pretty much dying once or twice.
    It's not really what people think Batman should say, but I can see him actually trying to justify Jason's choices that way (which is why the "Batman doesn't kill" never will be not funny for me).
    I see it also in this way that sometimes as Cop or so you are forced to kill or shoot someone to save lives...
    And this is what Bruce maybe cant do while Jason would do that...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Yeah, Bruce, sure it was seeing being Robin as a game, not him trying to help his mother to be betrayed by her. Yeah. Because it's such a game. Holy mother of God, what's victim blaming?

    This made me remember how much I didn't like Hush. It wasn't because of that at that moment, but, eh, I keep finding reasons to not understanding why some people like that story so much.
    lol Jason should have in retrospect just waited for him to return given what was waiting for him inside the warehouse. anyways the hush storyline was a pleasant read for me for the first few times but then it's many flaws started becoming apparent and I am not as enamoured of the storyline as I was before.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I see it also in this way that sometimes as Cop or so you are forced to kill or shoot someone to save lives...
    And this is what Bruce maybe cant do while Jason would do that...
    The reason Bruce trust cops, especially Gordon, is because he respects them as representative and enforcer of the law in an already existing system, assuming the cops are not corrupt or trigger happy, of course, otherwise, they will be treated as he treats other criminals.

    When Jason's accepted back to the Batfam it's on a no-kill condition because that is also Batman's agreement with Gordon to be able to operate outside of the law in Gotham. If Batman himself kills, Gordon will treat him like other criminals. Likewise, if Jason kills, Batman will treat him the same way.

    So I don't think the cop comparison fits.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    The reason Bruce trust cops, especially Gordon, is because he respects them as representative and enforcer of the law in an already existing system, assuming the cops are not corrupt or trigger happy, of course, otherwise, they will be treated as he treats other criminals.

    When Jason's accepted back to the Batfam it's on a no-kill condition because that is also Batman's agreement with Gordon to be able to operate outside of the law in Gotham. If Batman himself kills, Gordon will treat him like other criminals. Likewise, if Jason kills, Batman will treat him the same way.

    So I don't think the cop comparison fits.
    I DIDNT say murdering, I said shooting a villain to save someones life (SELF-DEFENSE or DEFENSE OF ANOTHER PERSON), this would be legal...

    And in "Red Hood and Scarlet" he is in prison and kills MANY people, dont know if this is still Canon or no..

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I'd say the real punchline came from StephÖ

    Attachment 82842
    Yeah.. Poor Steph..

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I DIDNT say murdering, I said shooting a villain to save someones life (SELF-DEFENSE or DEFENSE OF ANOTHER PERSON), this would be legal...

    And in "Red Hood and Scarlet" he is in prison and kills MANY people, dont know if this is still Canon or no..
    Nothing in that run is canon for Jason currently, as far as I know (we know he was in Arkham at some point, where he met Harleen Quinzel. But could have happened after he came back to Gotham the first time as Red Hood, just after Under the Hood but before Countdown, if that still happened somehow. No Scarlet in the current continuity, and he didn't met Prof Pyg, for example). Which is cool, because Morrison's red head Jason is his own character alone practically. Him with a bag of heads is still canon though, as are other kills he has done off and on screen.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 05-31-2019 at 10:02 AM.
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  13. #43
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    Didn’t Tim also had a personal family that other Robins lack. I mean even Damien and Bruce father and son moments are a bitter pill to swallow given how both of them act.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    Didn’t Tim also had a personal family that other Robins lack. I mean even Damien and Bruce father and son moments are a bitter pill to swallow given how both of them act.
    I wish we still saw more of Tim's family and personal life away from the Batman still like we used to in his solo.

    Dick won't be having insecurities about his place.
    Tim might be now that he's Robin again
    Jason has insecurities not just about his time as Robin but also about his place in the family.
    Damian has insecurities about everything from Robin, the weight of the legacies riding on his shoulders, he's parent's [both] very conditional love, his height, his past, those nightmares he was having after dying and coming back the 1st time, the fact that he seemed to go to hell when he died, the fact that his mum was behind his death,the fact that he was killed by an older better version of himself, the fact that the 2nd time he died his folks were just steps away bickering and thus weren't paying attention/helping him out, the fact that everytime his parents reunite he dies or one of them nearly dies.


    So much King could have explored especially with Damian or Jason and he just reduces them to this.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    Damian is better than any robin in skills and smarts due to his upbringing and programming but that makes him only a Gary Stu not a viable person as he is a product of genetic engineering and bred to be the perfect warrior so it's not much of a achievement if he is able to outshine all the others as they are human whereas he is a genetically perfected test tube baby. mind you I am not saying that's totally the reason he excels at everything but it does play a large role. he may well be a mutate super smart like Valeria or moon girl and something more than human like paul Kirk manhunter though of course it may be too soon to say that.
    That doesn't make him a Stu. Her's a stu if he excelled at stuff just because. Damian just like Batman excels because he worked and bleed for those skills.

    He's mum was hoping to make the perfect human so tinkered with his make up.

    No one is say that it's an achievement just that it is facts. Damian excels above all the others in skills and smarts.

    He excels because the writers keep upping the ante with the bat kids.

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