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Thread: Identity Crisis

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    That doesn't make him a Stu. Her's a stu if he excelled at stuff just because. Damian just like Batman excels because he worked and bleed for those skills.

    He's mum was hoping to make the perfect human so tinkered with his make up.

    No one is say that it's an achievement just that it is facts. Damian excels above all the others in skills and smarts.

    He excels because the writers keep upping the ante with the bat kids.
    the way some of his fanboys talked you wouldn't think so where they think it's a most impressive achievement. when you leave behind everyone at almost every aspect at such a tender age you are a Stu no matter how much you wish you were a child prodigy or something.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    the way some of his fanboys talked you wouldn't think so where they think it's a most impressive achievement. when you leave behind everyone at almost every aspect at such a tender age you are a Stu no matter how much you wish you were a child prodigy or something.
    When you leave behind everyone at every aspect at such a tender you are a child prodigy. The thing is in the Batfamily they seem to all be special making being special not a big deal anymore.

    it's not a big deal when you've got people like Barbara Gordon
    Duke Thomas who took on Riddler at a young age
    Bruce who is the world's greatest detective
    Dick Grayson who has being acknowledged by Ra's as detective and being called the world's 2nd greatest detective.
    Tim who built the Belfry.

    I find that Stu these days is just a term that fans like to assign characters they dislike. Batman, Tim and Damian are often accused of being stu's. Which as far as i'm concerned is just bollocks.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    When you leave behind everyone at every aspect at such a tender you are a child prodigy. The thing is in the Batfamily they seem to all be special making being special not a big deal anymore.

    it's not a big deal when you've got people like Barbara Gordon
    Duke Thomas who took on Riddler at a young age
    Bruce who is the world's greatest detective
    Dick Grayson who has being acknowledged by Ra's as detective and being called the world's 2nd greatest detective.
    Tim who built the Belfry.

    I find that Stu these days is just a term that fans like to assign characters they dislike. Batman, Tim and Damian are often accused of being stu's. Which as far as i'm concerned is just bollocks.
    NOT TRUE!!!!

    TIM IS THE DETECTIVE AND WAS AKNOWLEDGED BY GHUL...TIM IS THE ONE WHO IS SAID TO BE ABLE TO SURPASS BRUCE...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Drake
    Here under the section "other skills"...

    YOU ARE MISTAKENING TIM WITH DICK..

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Batman Beyond IS Elseworld....
    Is Elseworld as long as it doesnt happen in the actual Timeline, which will never happen...

    And No, still think that Tim is MUCH smarter, but we will never see a comparison between them as adults...
    What you think is irrelevant what is relevant is DC Canon and the in continuity achievements of the characters.

    Damian is much much smarter than Tim especially current Tim.
    We can't compare them as adults but we can compare their achievements by age 13. There is no comparison.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    NOT TRUE!!!!

    TIM IS THE DETECTIVE AND WAS AKNOWLEDGED BY GHUL...TIM IS THE ONE WHO IS SAID TO BE ABLE TO SURPASS BRUCE...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Drake
    Here under the section "other skills"...

    YOU ARE MISTAKENING TIM WITH DICK..
    Tim wasn't acknowledged by Ra's. RR isn't in continuity. Dick is the one that Ra's has called Detective. Dick was acknowledged in nightwing before then now out of continuity RR. Heck even Jason was called detective in nu52 RHATO's #27 by Tynion

    Instead of looking at incorrect wiki try reading the comics mate. Wiki's are edited by fans and fans are often ignorant, incorrect or straight up lie. Go to the source. The comics.

    Last edited by dietrich; 06-05-2019 at 09:45 AM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Tim wasn't acknowledged by Ra's. RR isn't in continuity. Dick is the one that Ra's has called Detective. Dick was acknowledged in nightwing before then now out of continuity RR. Heck even Jason was called detective in nu52 RHATO's #27 by Tynion

    Instead of looking at incorrect wiki try reading the comics mate. Wiki's are edited by fans and fans are often ignorant, incorrect or straight up lie. Go to the source. The comics.
    In Red Robin 12 Ras has called Tim Detective and he was also shown to be EXTREMELY SMART....

    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    What you think is irrelevant what is relevant is DC Canon and the in continuity achievements of the characters.
    NO!! Batman Beyond is still Elseworld... They are simply Elseworld Stories, no more, no less....they are simply showing a future which could be.....COULD...IT ISNT CANON...

    It doesnt matter how often you will say it, its simply not Canon, because Canon is only what happened UNTIL NOW and not what CAN HAPPEN...

    Batman Beyond is Elseworld, because it CAN HAPPEN.. Its a possibility, not more, not less...otherwise you can take EVERYTHING from DC and include it...

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    In Red Robin 12 Ras has called Tim Detective and he was also shown to be EXTREMELY SMART....



    NO!! Batman Beyond is still Elseworld... They are simply Elseworld Stories, no more, no less....they are simply showing a future which could be.....COULD...IT ISNT CANON...

    It doesnt matter how often you will say it, its simply not Canon, because Canon is only what happened UNTIL NOW and not what CAN HAPPEN...

    Batman Beyond is Elseworld, because it CAN HAPPEN.. Its a possibility, not more, not less...otherwise you can take EVERYTHING from DC and include it...
    Dude RR isn't canon anymore. Those events never happened. In Rebirth Tim was 13 at the time of RR and just joined the family. In Rebirth Dick and Damian found Bruce. You can't pick and choose what canon or what's in continuity and you can't use out of continuity stuff.


    What you think is irrelevant what is relevant is DC Canon and the in continuity achievements of the characters.

    Fine using DC canon Damian at 10 and 13 is still shown to be leagues smarter than Tim. if you can provide me with an in canon comparison of them as adults then go right ahead.

    In Tim Drake's 3 years as a hero [Tim is 16 and became Robin at age 13] give me canon examples of him being smarter than Damian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Dude RR isn't canon anymore. Those events never happened. In Rebirth Tim was 13 at the time of RR and just joined the family. In Rebirth Dick and Damian found Bruce. You can't pick and choose what canon or what's in continuity and you can't use out of continuity stuff.


    What you think is irrelevant what is relevant is DC Canon and the in continuity achievements of the characters.

    Fine using DC canon Damian at 10 and 13 is still shown to be leagues smarter than Tim. if you can provide me with an in canon comparison of them as adults then go right ahead.

    In Tim Drake's 3 years as a hero [Tim is 16 and became Robin at age 13] give me canon examples of him being smarter than Damian.
    If you use Batman Beyond you MUST use also Red Robin....very simply...

    Batman Beyond is OUT-CONTINUITY as its a POSSIBLE FUTURE! ITS NOT!!! CANON, IT ISNT IN CONTINUITY!!

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    In Red Robin 12 Ra's did indeed call Tim Detective however the reason why I didn't list that for him is that the events of that book were scraped by DC and in Rebirth they doubled down on it never happening.

    Red Robin never happened so Ra's never called Tim detective.

    Tim's history is dubious and right now he has very limited history. Because Tec slashed his age to 16, gave him living parents and canonised a lot of his nu52 events Rebirth Tim isn't the same Tim as the one who Bruce said would surpass him.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    If you use Batman Beyond you MUST use also Red Robin....very simply...

    Batman Beyond is OUT-CONTINUITY as its a POSSIBLE FUTURE! ITS NOT!!! CANON, IT ISNT IN CONTINUITY!!
    What are you talking about? what part of 10- 13 year old damian is smarter than 13 year old Tim don't you get?

    Like I said 4 posts ago

    We can't compare them as adults but we can compare their achievements by age 13. There is no comparison.

    I am not using BB or anything other than current canon to compare them and Damian is far far smarter.
    Last edited by dietrich; 06-06-2019 at 12:18 AM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Dude RR isn't canon anymore. Those events never happened. In Rebirth Tim was 13 at the time of RR and just joined the family. In Rebirth Dick and Damian found Bruce. You can't pick and choose what canon or what's in continuity and you can't use out of continuity stuff.


    What you think is irrelevant what is relevant is DC Canon and the in continuity achievements of the characters.

    Fine using DC canon Damian at 10 and 13 is still shown to be leagues smarter than Tim. if you can provide me with an in canon comparison of them as adults then go right ahead.

    In Tim Drake's 3 years as a hero [Tim is 16 and became Robin at age 13] give me canon examples of him being smarter than Damian.
    Technically those events are still canon with the whole Metaverse stuff going on in Doomsday Clock.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Technically those events are still canon with the whole Metaverse stuff going on in Doomsday Clock.
    Technically they are not until they are back in canon. Why don't you wait until Doomsday Clock concludes before proclaiming what is canon and what isn't. Okay.

    And like I said before in my very 1st post even pre Flashpoint when Tim had his whole history intact he still wasn't smarter than Damian at 10 or 13.
    Last edited by dietrich; 06-06-2019 at 11:37 PM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    If you use Batman Beyond you MUST use also Red Robin....very simply...

    Batman Beyond is OUT-CONTINUITY as its a POSSIBLE FUTURE! ITS NOT!!! CANON, IT ISNT IN CONTINUITY!!
    Incorrect. Batman Beyond appears as a canon future in both the old timeline via Batman 700 and a couple issues of Superman/Batman, as well as having been established as going to happen in the current timeline by the introduction of Warren McGiness in Gotham Academy and Derek Powers in Snyder's Batman. Gotham Academy Second Semester went as far as to have an annual where Derek Powers as Blight travels back in time to kill Warren before he ever has sex and fathers Terry.

    The current Batman Beyond series has also mentioned the failed wedding and Dick's getting shot in the head and having amnesia. The future is malleable, but Terry as Batman either as Damian's successor/replacement or Bruce's is set.

    The only futures that doesn't happen are the really bad ones where some massive war happens and everyone loses. Which we know isn't going to happen because Adventures of the Super Sons indicates that at some point Jon and Damian have kids who get married, which is pretty fantastic. It means that at some point while Damian is running the League and not talking to Bruce, he gets laid. Several times. And then rekindles his friendship with Jon when they're old.

    And back to the original question of this thread of why Dick thinks Tim's darker than Damian: we have only seen one future where Tim isn't a serial killer and that's Nightwing: New World Order where Tim cheerfully supports a fascist regime that imprisons innocent people.

    Oh and Ra's refers to Dick as Detective in Nightwing 152, as well as in Damian: Son of Batman. Tim's the third person to get the Detective moniker in the old canon, in current canon he's only interacted with Ra's during the unseen Resurrection arc, and it's unlikely Ra's would have tried to lure a 13 year old with little experience or training to his side. Sorry, I mean a eleven year old. Tim's still sixteen despite five years, almost six having passed in universe. Jason and Dick being called Detective by Ra's is still canon though.

  14. #59
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Technically they are not until they are back in canon. Why don't you wait until Doomsday Clock concludes before proclaiming what is canon and what isn't. Okay.

    And like I said before in my very 1st post even pre Flashpoint when Tim had his whole history intact he still wasn't smarter than Damian at 10 or 13.
    I'm just saying what the most recent issue said.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Cyclist View Post
    Incorrect. Batman Beyond appears as a canon future in both the old timeline via Batman 700 and a couple issues of Superman/Batman, as well as having been established as going to happen in the current timeline by the introduction of Warren McGiness in Gotham Academy and Derek Powers in Snyder's Batman. Gotham Academy Second Semester went as far as to have an annual where Derek Powers as Blight travels back in time to kill Warren before he ever has sex and fathers Terry.

    The current Batman Beyond series has also mentioned the failed wedding and Dick's getting shot in the head and having amnesia. The future is malleable, but Terry as Batman either as Damian's successor/replacement or Bruce's is set.

    The only futures that doesn't happen are the really bad ones where some massive war happens and everyone loses. Which we know isn't going to happen because Adventures of the Super Sons indicates that at some point Jon and Damian have kids who get married, which is pretty fantastic. It means that at some point while Damian is running the League and not talking to Bruce, he gets laid. Several times. And then rekindles his friendship with Jon when they're old.

    And back to the original question of this thread of why Dick thinks Tim's darker than Damian: we have only seen one future where Tim isn't a serial killer and that's Nightwing: New World Order where Tim cheerfully supports a fascist regime that imprisons innocent people.

    Oh and Ra's refers to Dick as Detective in Nightwing 152, as well as in Damian: Son of Batman. Tim's the third person to get the Detective moniker in the old canon, in current canon he's only interacted with Ra's during the unseen Resurrection arc, and it's unlikely Ra's would have tried to lure a 13 year old with little experience or training to his side. Sorry, I mean a eleven year old. Tim's still sixteen despite five years, almost six having passed in universe. Jason and Dick being called Detective by Ra's is still canon though.
    INCORRECT...

    NOTHING is fixed, the Future ALWAYS depends on what happens the Future..

    We have seen many futures:

    -Titans of Tomorrow (this happened in the Teen Titans Series and also in Rebirth) where Tim,Cassie,Conner,Lorena,the younger Shazam...take over the role of their mentors and become Superman,Wonder Woman,Aquawoman,Animal Man.....this is intact to some extend, because we have seen Titans of Tomorrow in Rebirth

    -Batman in Betlehem (this had several interpretations) the first one was that Damian becomes Batman and Conner becomes Superman and the two argue, but honor their mentors and meet each other at this day
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Kon-El_(Batman_in_Bethlehem)
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Damian_Wa..._in_Bethlehem)

    and the FUTURE keeps changing, for example neither Batman in Betlehem NOR Titans of Tomorrow included JONATHAN SAMUEL KENT until Rebirth...

    AND!!!! since Rebirth Titans of Tomorrow Conner and Titans of Tomorrow Cassie and Titans of Tomorrow Bart Allen are HEROES also in the FUTURE...


    Besides as far as I remind the current Tim Drake Future (Saviour) was also NOT a serial Killer, but he killed or have tried to kill Damian, because Damian became evil and he wanted to kill Batwoman,Jonathan and Damian in the present...



    So its also still out of Canon..because like the recent Titans of Tomorrow in Rebirth showed that Future can change and Conner,Cassie... are Heroes in the Future and NOT Villains who terrorize the Country..

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