The Complex

[numberthirty]

If it goes like this -

- Third From Last: Wraps up selling maybe a thousand more than Inhumans #14.
- Next To Last: Wraps up selling maybe a thousand more than Inhumans #14.
- Last:Wraps up selling nine or ten thousand less than Inhumans #14.

It's not that hard to see why a company might give it a rest.

[numberthirty]

The same sort of thing happens with X-Men: Legacy and it's final volume. It goes from selling low thirties early on to selling six thousand and less than the Inhumans #14 number that folks are pointing at.

[weezer17]

And I think that it's pretty obvious from most responses to this subject that many of us don't consider her a great loss to the franchise.

Blasphemy! ... Oh wait, no, I definitely agree. Carry on!

[ChronoRogue]

If it goes like this -

- Third From Last: Wraps up selling maybe a thousand more than Inhumans #14.
- Next To Last: Wraps up selling maybe a thousand more than Inhumans #14.
- Last:Wraps up selling nine or ten thousand less than Inhumans #14.

It's not that hard to see why a company might give it a rest.

Who exactly are you arguing with that disagreed that X-Force did not need a break?

It did, but the point made seemed to be that title was still very viable before it was mishandled. Also you make it seem like it was three chances, when really it was two. Cable & X-Force and Uncanny X-Force were around at the same time and seemed to influence each other as a series. I don't think it's a coincidence they were only a few thousand difference in sales for the runs, despite having different characters and creative teams.

Ultimately, Marvel made a poor choice trying to split the brand into two and the dissolution hurt sales. Neither team had a clear identity. Then Spurrier came in and the title got polarizing art, which cemented the fall for the title.

The situation with X-Force isn't comparable to Inhumans, which have not had commercially successful runs to show good faith in putting resources into it (and thus doesn't deserve confidence in being able to handle three titles, that sounds like an even worse disaster than what happened with X-Force).

[numberthirty]

There are plenty of folks talking about how Marvel is kneecapping the "X" line/Sending characters into Limbo/Killing characters.

Those people just need to consider that not every character/creator will be able to keep a title afloat(See each of the last three versions of X-Force).

That is not a company being out to get you. That is just how trying to sell comics for a profit works.

As for "Confidence" as it applies to the three "Inhumans" titles, how is Ellis writing Karnak not a more sure bet than any "X" title that is part of ANAD?

[dragonmp93]

If it goes like this -

- Third From Last: Wraps up selling maybe a thousand more than Inhumans #14.
- Next To Last: Wraps up selling maybe a thousand more than Inhumans #14.
- Last:Wraps up selling nine or ten thousand less than Inhumans #14.

It's not that hard to see why a company might give it a rest.

So one more time and Marvel will stop pushing the Inhumans ?.

The same sort of thing happens with X-Men: Legacy and it's final volume. It goes from selling low thirties early on to selling six thousand and less than the Inhumans #14 number that folks are pointing at.

That book was cancelled by AvX.

[numberthirty]

So one more time and Marvel will stop pushing the Inhumans ?.

This isn't that hard. A year into Inhumans, they were still north of twenty-five thousand an issue. Up until that issue, they were not dropping below twenty-three.

That final X-Force run would have killed to pull those numbers late in it's run.

Where is the argument against making sure those characters made the jump from Inhumans to ANAD?

[numberthirty]

That book was cancelled by AvX.

Because not every character is being killed/sent into limbo. Some of them just can't carry a title that will turn a profit. Marvel sells comics to make a profit.

[Child of the Past]

The problem I have, when you guys discuss sales numbers, is that you only compare one of the most popular/pushed franchises, over the last few decades, to a franchise that just started getting pushed, and still hasn't really had a great deal of mainstream exposure. Additionally, many of you ignore all the other c and d-list properties getting pushed at the moment and their respective sales numbers. Squadron Supreme and Captain Marvel have never really had consistently good sales yet SS has three books and Captain Marvel is featured in at least three books at any given time. Spider-Man is popular and all but do we really need 5-6 other Spider-related books. Where was the outcry from X-Men fans when these books, most of which sell under the Inhumans books, continually got promotion over The X-Men despite their mediocre sales. We don't need a Red Wolf solo, we didn't need for every member of the GotG to have a solo but the the current environment we are living in. Marvel is pushing a bunch a properties right, regardless of sales in the hopes that any exposure will generate interest. The level of promotion for the Inhumans is no were near as bad as the level of promotion Deadpool, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Avengers, or Spider-Man are currently getting. It's not even half the promotion the X-men got when I was growing up. I just don't know why you guys are comparing sales number when no one is suggesting that the Inhumans, or any other Marvel team really, is as popular as the X-Men.

What's happening here is hat marvel is trying to promote a franchise before it had time to have any real mainstream exposure, via a film or cartoon. They are ultimately trying to build interest now so that the film will be more successful in 2019. Which basically reaffirms the sentiment that the MCU comes first, which from a business sense is understandable, but then it causes situations like this smh.

[Shadowbrat]

Adjectiveless, Amazing and Magneto were all selling around or above 30k sales. Where have all those books gone? Meanwhile, All-New X-Factor was cancelled at 23k (only slightly less than Inhuman) after being Marvel's most consistently selling title for a decade.

[ChronoRogue]

There are plenty of folks talking about how Marvel is kneecapping the "X" line/Sending characters into Limbo/Killing characters.

Those people just need to consider that not every character/creator will be able to keep a title afloat(See each of the last three versions of X-Force).

That is not a company being out to get you. That is just how trying to sell comics for a profit works.

As for "Confidence" as it applies to the three "Inhumans" titles, how is Ellis writing Karnak not a more sure bet than any "X" title that is part of ANAD?

That's not what Marvel has shown over the years. Child of the Past mentioned it in their post, but there are lots of titles that get relaunched over and over again despite not having the sales to warrant it. Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, Black Widow, etc... Now that they have Disney backing, Marvel is less afraid to take risks in hopes that a character or concept will catch on. Those same risks benefits don't seem to apply to the X-Men, though.

And before you say X-Force, it wasn't three strikes and your out, it was one (Spurrier's).

So yeah, I can see how people think the cut to the X-Line is undeserved. Look at the first link I posted again, it had five main X-titles selling better than Inhumans and numerous one-shots and minis as well. The X-Franchise has proven time and again it can handle large book loads, so it makes no sense to cut back now. There's "well, less books mean more focus" but then why are other franchises expanding into heavier numbers (just look at the number of Spider-Man books).

The problem I have, when you guys discuss sales numbers, is that you only compare one of the most popular/pushed franchises, over the last few decades, to a franchise that just started getting pushed, and still hasn't really had a great deal of mainstream exposure. Additionally, many of you ignore all the other c and d-list properties getting pushed at the moment and their respective sales numbers. Squadron Supreme and Captain Marvel have never really had consistently good sales yet SS has three books and Captain Marvel is featured in at least three books at any given time. Spider-Man is popular and all but do we really need 5-6 other Spider-related books. Where was the outcry from X-Men fans when these books, most of which sell under the Inhumans books, continually got promotion over The X-Men despite their mediocre sales. We don't need a Red Wolf solo, we didn't need for every member of the GotG to have a solo but the the current environment we are living in. Marvel is pushing a bunch a properties right, regardless of sales in the hopes that any exposure will generate interest. The level of promotion for the Inhumans is no were near as bad as the level of promotion Deadpool, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Avengers, or Spider-Man are currently getting. It's not even half the promotion the X-men got when I was growing up. I just don't know why you guys are comparing sales number when no one is suggesting that the Inhumans, or any other Marvel team really, is as popular as the X-Men.

Oh those situations were annoying as well, but it didn't matter much to X-Fans because the titles still were relatively healthy at the time. Lots of books, characters were still getting focused, and there was more hope eventually the franchise would move on from Decimation and get back on track to what the books were originally about (less weird extinction plot, more background sociopolitical themes with flashy super-heroics).

Inhumans get ire because we're at an all time low for the franchise. Classic characters are spread thin or gone and we've got less titles than we've had in a long time. For a franchise that has so many good characters and can support more in satellite titles, it's sad. Inhumans have also been racking up negative points via appropriation of perceived themes and concepts. Add in a obvious push, marketing to pit fans against each other and you get this situation.

And we're bringing up sales because iirc someone thought the Inhumans and X-Men line being able to support the same number of books made sense. It doesn't.

What's happening here is hat marvel is trying to promote a franchise before it had time to have any real mainstream exposure, via a film or cartoon. They are ultimately trying to build interest now so that the film will be more successful in 2019. Which basically reaffirms the sentiment that the MCU comes first, which from a business sense is understandable, but then it causes situations like this smh.

Yea, it's sad. But this is NuMarvel and it doesn't really care about comic buyers. We're more a control group than anything I think, testing to see what stories and characters are popular and might translate well on-screen.

[dragonmp93]

Because not every character is being killed/sent into limbo. Some of them just can't carry a title that will turn a profit. Marvel sells comics to make a profit.

And that the Avengers wanted to kidnap Rogue.

The problem I have, when you guys discuss sales numbers, is that you only compare one of the most popular/pushed franchises, over the last few decades, to a franchise that just started getting pushed, and still hasn't really had a great deal of mainstream exposure. Additionally, many of you ignore all the other c and d-list properties getting pushed at the moment and their respective sales numbers. Squadron Supreme and Captain Marvel have never really had consistently good sales yet SS has three books and Captain Marvel is featured in at least three books at any given time. Spider-Man is popular and all but do we really need 5-6 other Spider-related books. Where was the outcry from X-Men fans when these books, most of which sell under the Inhumans books, continually got promotion over The X-Men despite their mediocre sales. We don't need a Red Wolf solo, we didn't need for every member of the GotG to have a solo but the the current environment we are living in. Marvel is pushing a bunch a properties right, regardless of sales in the hopes that any exposure will generate interest. The level of promotion for the Inhumans is no were near as bad as the level of promotion Deadpool, Guardians of the Galaxy, the Avengers, or Spider-Man are currently getting. It's not even half the promotion the X-men got when I was growing up. I just don't know why you guys are comparing sales number when no one is suggesting that the Inhumans, or any other Marvel team really, is as popular as the X-Men.

What's happening here is hat marvel is trying to promote a franchise before it had time to have any real mainstream exposure, via a film or cartoon. They are ultimately trying to build interest now so that the film will be more successful in 2019. Which basically reaffirms the sentiment that the MCU comes first, which from a business sense is understandable, but then it causes situations like this smh.

Well, i guess that given you joined in May 2015, the Post-AvX Avengers-Hate had already died down and you didnt saw it; but the things is that we dont take it to the GotG or someone else, is that the Avengers and now the Inhumans have storylines where the mutants get the short end of the stick, and that's what creates most of the hate.

[Child of the Past]

Well, i guess that given you joined in May 2015, the Post-AvX Avengers-Hate had already died down and you didnt saw it; but the things is that we dont take it to the GotG or someone else, is that the Avengers and now the Inhumans have storylines where the mutants get the short end of the stick, and that's what creates most of the hate.

That line of reasoning doesn't even hold up or did you forget the Trial of Jean Grey and Black Vortex. Both those storylines set up a completely forced pairing between Kitty and Starlord, which ultimately lead to her leaving the X-Men, her freaking family, for the Guardians. The Inhumans haven't actually done anything to the X-Men. Practically all the the X-Men are still around. The only siginificant member missing at this point is Cyclops and the chances that he's actually dead at this point are infinitesimal. I can completely understand hating a storyline but when you let poor writing dictate how you feel about an entire group of characters, that you may have been indifferent to up until this point, it just doesn't make sense to me. If I only read AvX, after watching the Avengers, and came to the conclusion that the X-Men were a-holes and then I came to every X-Men article saying how much better the Avengers were based purely on that storyline, you would say I was ignorant and biased. Is really so hard to just hate the storyline itself and not the entire group of characters. I'm not fond of this terrigen mist story myself, primarily due to the unnecessary drama it's causing for the X-Men and the Avengers to some extent.

[Arya]

Right, what I don't understand is your ignorance about why folks are pissed. I don't blame the inhumans for what is going on but I don't really like them because they are benefiting from all this. I love Blackbolt but he needs a Namor day where he is beheaded for what he did. Clearly you can understand that.

[Child of the Past]

Right, what I don't understand is your ignorance about why folks are pissed. I don't blame the inhumans for what is going on but I don't really like them because they are benefiting from all this. I love Blackbolt but he needs a Namor day where he is beheaded for what he did. Clearly you can understand that.

Not really, and nothing you just said made it more clear. Namor killed billions of innocent people intentionally. He's also gotten civilians killed in his numerous attacks on the surface. Black Bolt was attempting to save billions of lives by using the terrigen bomb to defeat Thanos. He in no way intentionally meant to cause mutants harm. Those are clearly different action. Also, how can you claim say you don't blame them an then in the next sentence place blame on them.

How the hell are they benefitting from this? Many X-fans on these boards and others have stated to me that they hate the Inhumans now because of this storyline and because they believe Marvel are using them to replace the X-Men. As I said in my original post, I have no problem understanding why you would hate this storyline. However, when you say stuff like "I don't like really like them because they are benefitting from all this" it only serves to back up what I'm saying. Like AvX and Black Vortex the end result was that the mutants lost something, either respect or teammates. The Inhumans haven't collectively done anything to mutants and yet you are still blaming for the whole thing. It's as if you are saying they are guilty by association (either to Marvels agenda or a redundant story were Black Bolt was the proxy), which I ultimately find problematic.

P.S. Non of my posts are meant to come off antagonistic. I'm just trying to clearly state my position.