The Complex

[JustAnotherFan]

Welcome brothers and sisters. This thread is for all things related to our so-called persecution complex. This is the place to post interviews, snippets, quotes, pics, etc that further underscore the marginalization of the X-Franchise. In this thread, you can feel safe to discuss how you feel about the way the X-Men and X-Fans are being treated without persecution. This is a place of love and understanding.

UPDATE:
The Complex Timeline

I only now took a really good look at the timeline and I gotta say that there's a lot of stuff in there!

I'm predicting a very short life for this thread.

After 600 pages this seems pretty funny.

[Coal Tiger]

So is this really the same guy who worked on TAS and not some impostor? I can easily believe that it is actually him as the comment sound pretty believable but still, it would be nice if there was some confirmation. If it really is him, then it's cool to see him also mentioning this whole situation and talking about it. Maybe it makes couple more people notice this whole thing that's going on.

Nothing about his profile screams imposter. it doesn't appear to be someone who created the account just to fake that comment from him. His activity seems animation related for the most part, so everything appears to check out.

[JustAnotherFan]

Nothing about his profile screams imposter. it doesn't appear to be someone who created the account just to fake that comment from him. His activity seems animation related for the most part, so everything appears to check out.

Well, in that case! And from checking the comments apparently he commented the same thing on his official FB account as well so that's further suggesting that it really is him.

[Neoxon]

So is this really the same guy who worked on TAS and not some impostor? I can easily believe that it is actually him as the comment sound pretty believable but still, it would be nice if there was some confirmation. If it really is him, then it's cool to see him also mentioning this whole situation and talking about it. Maybe it makes couple more people notice this whole thing that's going on.

It's him, he posted the same comment on Facebook.

[Cognition]

Hey all. I'm new here (as I'm sure you can tell by my post count) but I'm not to the topic of Marvel's negative actions concerning the X-Men. Anyways on to something more topical.

I understand, at a certain point, why Marvel decided to shut down The Danger Room Protocols. It was on a dubious, if even that, legal boundary. That said, there's little doubt in my mind that Marvel wouldn't have done the same if this were an Avengers/Inhumans Fan Project. As Larry Houston (presumably) said, Marvel is a different entity than it was twenty or so years ago. While that's not all bad, the constant focus on their films over everything else largely is. (Granted, I'm not even a big fan of most MCU films, so you could consider that statement a bit biased.) The movies probably won't be popular forever, and when their time runs out, Marvel might find themselves in the same position they were at the turn of the century.

[mburns]

I'm talking about licensing out games. Not Marvel spending money out of pocket on one or the other, though I have no idea why they couldn't do both as long as they generate money from both. At least enough to cover their expense in making it. Assuming they even had to put up the cost, which I don't think is how that works. Rather they license the characters out. So why hold the X-men back if they can make money from them? Because they think they will help the FOX films? Jesus that's silly.

Not wanting to help the Fox films is not silly. They are a direct competitor to their own films not just Marvel films but Disney films in general. You never help your competitor especially if all you get out of it is minimal profit. Maybe if the X-Men were a licensing juggernaut like Spider-Man, Marvel/Disney would have a different attitude but they were never that big.

Also despite what people think retailers don't have endless amounts of money to spend on licenses or shelf space for endless number of products and customers don't have endless number of dollars to buy stuff. If Marvel/Disney has to choose which characters to market they will go with those they control which they can further leverage into TV shows or Movies if they become more popular over X-Men unless everything they try fails. But so far they have managed to hit on everything including Guardians and Ant-Man.

[Tazpocalapse]

Not wanting to help the Fox films is not silly. They are a direct competitor to their own films not just Marvel films but Disney films in general. You never help your competitor especially if all you get out of it is minimal profit. Maybe if the X-Men were a licensing juggernaut like Spider-Man, Marvel/Disney would have a different attitude but they were never that big.

Also despite what people think retailers don't have endless amounts of money to spend on licenses or shelf space for endless number of products and customers don't have endless number of dollars to buy stuff. If Marvel/Disney has to choose which characters to market they will go with those they control which they can further leverage into TV shows or Movies if they become more popular over X-Men unless everything they try fails. But so far they have managed to hit on everything including Guardians and Ant-Man.

It is silly because Marvel is sabotaging it's own product, just so it will not "help" the competition. As previously stated Marvel owns the merchandise rights to the X-men they can create and produce all the X-Men products they want and not have to give Fox one red cent as long as the product is not based on Fox X-men movies. So producing X-men products does not "help"the competition at all. Since we are on the subject of competition if Marvel considers X-men films that they make money off competition and believe X-men products and merchandise "help" the competition, to the point that they are willing to do all in their power to not help the competition and comic books take a back seat to everything else because it is a small sliver in the grander scheme of things. What is stopping Marvel from sabotaging X-books?

Marvel decided to take the choice away from retailers and customers in some instances by not making the licenses available.

[Jackraow21]

Exactly. And I don't think that Marvel putting out X-men merchandise (or not putting it out) is really impacting FOX's films one way or the other. Hence the pettiness and outright shortsightedness of Marvel's leadership right now. They could be making some decent money off of the franchise instead of burying it because of some executive butthurt over the film rights. Like I said, there's plenty of box office dollars to go around. The past few years have proven that. The new Star Wars films won't hurt Marvel's films (and, yes, I know both are owned by Disney), nor will the launch of the DCU with Batman vs Superman. In my view there will be a multiplier effect and all of these comic book movies, as long as they are decent, will do very well. The ones who will be hurt are the smaller independent films and the mid-sized releases from big studios. The CBMs will crowd everything else out. But will not cannibalize each other.

And, if nothing else, Marvel should at least use some X-characters in the cartoons. Hell, they've made some of them Avengers in the comics (Deadpool, Rogue and now Cable), so if that's the only way we get to see them then so be it. Put them in the Avengers cartoon as guest stars or part of some satellite Avengers group. We have seen Wolverine in the Spider-man cartoon, so why not other mutants interacting with the Avengers? They are far more interesting than some of the crap characters being featured and pushed by Marvel right now.

The good news is that it seems like some of this sentiment over at Marvel might be thawing in light of Kevin Feige successfully wresting the film division away from Ike Perlmutter. Hopefully Feige is moving towards an original, Kirby-inspired Inhumans film and away from the NuHumans (wannabe mutants) trash that Ike has been pushing in comics and on the small screen. Since that happened we have seen a few more X-characters showing up in games like Contest of Champions and the announcement of an X-men inspired line of Marvel Legends toys. So fingers crossed that things are getting better over there and cooler, smarter heads are prevailing...

[Jackraow21]

So is this really the same guy who worked on TAS and not some impostor? I can easily believe that it is actually him as the comment sound pretty believable but still, it would be nice if there was some confirmation. If it really is him, then it's cool to see him also mentioning this whole situation and talking about it. Maybe it makes couple more people notice this whole thing that's going on.

"You are now, officially, just part of the collateral damage in the ongoing corporate battle of egos."

Well put by that dude. The X-men fans who have supported Marvel and stuck with them over the years (some of us through the terrible bankruptcy period of the late 90s) are also collateral damage in this battle of (massive) corporate egos. I can only imagine how small some of these guys' "equipment" must be to take the position they have...

Also, this would indicate to me that Marvel's plans to rewrite their universe with a bigger Inhumans presence and a lesser mutant presence aren't going all that well...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/...-and-dc-sales/

They've pulled their top talent to the Star Wars books and the Inhumans books (which they still pointlessly try to push), oversaturated the Avengers and Inhumans franchises, and put out lots of books that no one cares about while culling the X-line. Sure, some of the X-satellite titles weren't great sellers over the past decade, but that has more to do with the creative teams they've saddled them with than anything. Put Soule and McNiven on X-Force and see how it does compared to Uncanny Inhumans. I dare you, Marvel.

Also, I think this push to replace the original Marvel icons (Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Wolverine, etc.) with new, more diverse legacy characters isn't having the desired effect of bringing in new readers. They knew better than to completely replace Peter Parker as Spider-man and risk alienating all of his fans, so they put both out there. Smart move. Did the same thing with Wolverine by giving us OML while replacing him with X-23. Now they are bringing Rogers back as Cap and just having two of them running around, with Sam Wilson still keeping the mantle as well. Should be real interesting to see which books sell better: Peter Parker's, OML's and Steve Rogers' or Miles Morales', Laura Kinney's and Sam Wilson's?

Hopefully they all do well, as I'd like to think there's room for both versions in the long run. The originals for the old timers who grew up with them, and the new ones for a more diverse young future readership. And if two Spider-man books, two Wolverine books and two Captain America books are all selling well, then that probably means folks are choosing them over the NuHumans. Which is good with me. Sends Marvel a message.

Personally I'm not buying anything but X-titles (and Uncanny Avengers which is half X-characters) in an attempt to show them my displeasure with how they're treating the franchise. If the ANAD Marvel sales continue the way they are, then who knows what will happen?

[AcesX1X]

and with that, i congratulate all of the compleX at reaching 600 pages. that's a lot of activity, dedication, passion, research, disagreements, compromises, and updates -- all in the name of the "so-called persecution complex" given to the x-fandom by marvel comics.

all the more fitting that we bring this occasion full-circle with a statement from a fox-related source (albeit he is probably retired) regarding the sabotage of the x-men by marvel comics themselves.

i do think that is a first in this ongoing debate.

stay vigilant, one and all.

[Sardorim]

Heck, Marvel cannot even capitalize on Quake whose the most well know Inhuman for non-comic readers.

Making comic Quake into Skye has proven a failure, especially when the show runners keep telling watchers to read Secret Warriors aka badass comic Quake.

Heck, Quake canonically hates long hair and guess what they did? A non-Quake fan team on SHIELD did no research on Quake and instead tried to make her look and act like S2 AoS Skye. Only were on AoS S3 where she has short hair so... Yeah.

C'mon now... Quake should be their frontrunner for the Inhuman pushes yet Marvel is botching things so bad here.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Eh, I'm honestly not sure ANAD Marvel's overall lackluster sales are that much of a Complex issue. The Inhumans' failed launch for sure, but everything else? I dunno. Plenty of books having nothing to do with the mutant/inhuman drama are pulling so-so numbers, too. Secret Wars, the soft reboot/botched relaunch are most likely the main culprits, here.

[weezer17]

Eh, I'm honestly not sure ANAD Marvel's overall lackluster sales are that much of a Complex issue. The Inhumans' failed launch for sure, but everything else? I dunno. Plenty of books having nothing to do with the mutant/inhuman drama are pulling so-so numbers, too. Secret Wars, the soft reboot/botched relaunch are most likely the main culprits, here.

Agreed, I think anything the Complex has to do with lackluster sales is only a minimal part of the problem.

[weezer17]

Heck, Marvel cannot even capitalize on Quake whose the most well know Inhuman for non-comic readers.

Making comic Quake into Skye has proven a failure, especially when the show runners keep telling watchers to read Secret Warriors aka badass comic Quake.

Heck, Quake canonically hates long hair and guess what they did? A non-Quake fan team on SHIELD did no research on Quake and instead tried to make her look and act like S2 AoS Skye. Only were on AoS S3 where she has short hair so... Yeah.

C'mon now... Quake should be their frontrunner for the Inhuman pushes yet Marvel is botching things so bad here.

The Quake/Skye stuff has certainly been disappointing, especially, as you mention, when compared to awesome Daisy was as a character in Secret Warriors.

[donpricetag]

I think some of you are looking at the merchandise issue from your prospective and not a broad one. No, the lack of toys in stores does not effect their movies now. But 10 years from now? Fifteen years? Twenty? Keeping the X-Men away from young eyes helps lessen their impact in the long run by controlling the amount of future nostalgia.

It won't stop people from seeing movies, especially of they continue to pump them out at the rate they are, but it will chip away at the rate of repeat viewers. They aren't worried about kids now, they are playing on those kids 10-15 years from now. I wouldn't be surprised if they start inserting X-Men characters into their Avengers cartoons, but not as allys but heels or characters to be pittied and rescued. Again, not going to do anything now, but continuously doing that for the next decade and half? What if 15 years from now a X-Men movie makes 500k, instead of a billion? It all just gives Disney the opportunity to bring Fox to the table with more power on their side.