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Thread: The Complex

  1. #61
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    This is just X-fans being aggressive and persnickety! All these rumors are ridiculous! There's no substance behind them! You should all be banned!

    oh wait nvm.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    They bother me less, which I'd admit isn't a proper answer. They just feel deeper somehow.

    For example I found Iron Man 3 painful to watch - and I actually liked the first Iron Man film - it's no masterpiece, but it was fun. The third one is a mess.

    Also I found the objectification of the female characters in the Avengers really juvenile and sad.
    Ah, gotcha. So we can just chalk it up to bias then, and not the presence (or lack thereof) of any plot-holes.

  3. #63
    *Clutches Pearls* LeonardEugenius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emma's Midriff View Post
    This is just X-fans being aggressive and persnickety! All these rumors are ridiculous! There's no substance behind them! You should all be banned!

    oh wait nvm.
    I've heard that song before

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Ah, gotcha. So we can just chalk it up to bias then, and not the presence (or lack thereof) of any plot-holes.
    I was being honest - as a reasoning adult admitting a bias does not invalidate my point - it shows that I'm aware of my own subjectivity. I would assume you have a similar bias in favour of the Marvel films. If you can't admit any faults with the MU films, you're a just another fan boy/girl and nothing I could say would alter your point of view - rendering our discussion moot.

    However I don't believe you're either - you come across as a reasonable individual.

    I've admitted there are plot holes in the X-films. And I have explained my reasoning for finding them less offensive. After nearly 14 years and a reboot - plot-holes are to be expected.

    So I'll put this to you - Why are the plot-holes in the Marvel films less of a crime against logic?
    Last edited by Beezzi; 08-02-2014 at 08:26 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    I was being honest - as a reasoning adult admitting a bias does not invalidate my point - it shows that I'm aware of my own subjectivity. I would assume you have a similar bias in favour of the Marvel films. If you can't admit any faults with the MU films than you're a just another fan boy/girl and nothing I could say would alter your point of view - rendering our discussion moot.

    However I don't believe you're either - you come across as a reasonable individual.

    I've admitted there are plot holes in the X-films. And I have explained my reasoning for finding them less offensive. After nearly 14 years and a reboot - plot-holes are to be expected.

    So I'll put this to you - Why are the plot-holes in the Marvel films less of a crime against logic?
    I never said the plot-holes in Avengers films were "less of a crime". I was asking you why theirs were larger than X-films (or, rather, why you insinuated that X-films had none, with your own made-up word "plothole-verse").

    I like both franchises very much (film and otherwise) if you must know although, I will admit, I didn't see DofP in the theater as many times as Avengers (mostly due to real life issues at the time of release of the latter).

    And I think this thread title is appropriate. The persecution complex shows very well when you automatically assume I'm bashing the X-Men films just because I'm questioning your logic.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    I never said the plot-holes in Avengers films were "less of a crime". I was asking you why theirs were larger than X-films (or, rather, why you insinuated that X-films had none, with your own made-up word "plothole-verse").

    I like both franchises very much (film and otherwise) if you must know although, I will admit, I didn't see DofP in the theater as many times as Avengers (mostly due to real life issues at the time of release of the latter).

    And I think this thread title is appropriate. The persecution complex shows very well when you automatically assume I'm bashing the X-Men films just because I'm questioning your logic.
    The thread title is unfortunate as it forces users into picking sides - you have wrongly assumed that I have a "complex" over something a minor as comic characters. As a South African I tend to not throw the word persecution around lightly - having an entertainment company not like the thing you're into, isn't persecution - it's just unfortunate.

    You see, I'm not in the doom and gloom camp. I'm on the fence. I don't believe Marvel or Disney is going to cancel the X-Men. Merch alone makes them enough good money.

    Do I believe they are trying to change things up? Make the line more Disney friendly? Maybe. Will it align with my tastes? Probable not. Do I lie awake at night worrying about it? No. Marvels done things I haven't liked in the past and I'm still here. At some point they will do something I like again. That is the nature of corporate entertainment. It's always in flux.

    My plothole-verse remark, was me being facetious. I didn't consider this topic that serious since the tone was pretty light up untill that point. if you found my remark overly offensive, I apologise. It was meant as a mere witticism - I didn't mean to make light of something you really care so much about.

    I do believe though, if we were both to sit down and compare universes, we'd find the MU one to be riddle with many more plot inconsistencies. The worst offenders being the Thor films. The Norse god seems to repel logic with scary regularity. (That or his just not that into Miss Portman)

    I prefer the tone of the Fox films. I find continuous quipping and inappropriate sight gags tedious as they interrupt the flow of a film. Guardians of the Galaxy, although not a masterpiece, I believe strikes a good balance in the first part of the film.
    Last edited by Beezzi; 08-02-2014 at 10:25 PM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    I do believe though, if we were both to sit down and compare universes, we'd find the MU one to be riddle with many more plot inconsistencies. The worst offenders being the Thor films. The Norse god seems to repel logic with scary regularity. (That or his just not that into Miss Portman)
    And here we go again.

    I'm asking you why the inconsistencies of one franchise can be overlooked while the inconsistencies of another franchise(s?) isn't, to which you later answer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Beezzi View Post
    I prefer the tone of the Fox films. I find continuous quipping and inappropriate sight gags tedious as they interrupt the flow of a film. Guardians of the Galaxy, although not a masterpiece, I believe strikes a good balance in the first part of the film.
    ...which has nothing to do with plotholes.

    Thank you.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member Beezzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    And here we go again.

    I'm asking you why the inconsistencies of one franchise can be overlooked while the inconsistencies of another franchise(s?) isn't, to which you later answer...

    ...which has nothing to do with plotholes.

    Thank you.
    Nope those two sentences do not relate to one another in that way. The first I was addressing why I find the MU plotholes so much worse - it's the lack of attention to detail in small or big things. The second I was trying to make it clear why I prefer the Fox films.

    I've clearly stated that I know there are plot holes in the X films. The MU's mistakes are greater since the regularity they occur is mind-boggling. I also find the MU underestimates the intelligence level of their audience.

    Off the top of my head - this is not a complete list. This is just a few bits from the Avengers that I remember.

    -Why does Loki have a staff that only works when he taps someone in the middle of the chest? It seems like a pretty weird limitation for a piece of ultra advanced alien tech to have. Oh yes -it's so that later in the film when he taps Stark in that exact spot, it won't work.
    -Why isn't Stark's mini arc reactor glowing in that scene with Loki as it does throughout the film? Someone on the crew should've picked up on that. Oh wait, it's so that the audience only remembers it's there when Loki taps Stark's chest.
    -Thor's hammer is shown breaking through nearly anything it, but seems to falter when it comes to really strong human engineered glass. How did Shield know just how strong to make that glass? The glass clearly badly cracks when Thor hits it the first time. Why doesn't he just hit it again? It's sure to break with a few more blows.
    -Thor's suddenly is able to understand all kinds of modern terminology and phrases he had trouble with in the first Thor film.

    At some point you and I have to agree to disagree. A continuous circular debate does neither one of us any good. I'm happy you enjoy both universes equally and I've enjoyed our discussion - your points were well argued. I look forward to reading anything else you have to contribute to this thread.
    Last edited by Beezzi; 08-03-2014 at 12:28 AM.

  9. #69
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    Oh I know we have to agree to disagree. I never start a conversation with anyone here (or very many other places) in hopes to change their mind or something similar. We are all too often already ingrained in matters of opinion.

    I'm still fairly curious why certain nitpicky aspects (the ones you've listed are hardly "massive") of one movie franchise are worse for you than another, but i've deduced it's clearly your bias...you probably like X-Men a fair deal better in general, plus you like the tone of the movies better (as you've clearly stated). Which makes more sense anyway because, again, it'd be hypocritical to dislike one movie merely for it's small faults, and not all movies.

    P.S., the glass was made to contain the Hulk, not Thor's hammer (Loki's the one who notates that). SHIELD has been tracking the Hulk for a while (Black widow is the one who notates that) and should know his capabilities pretty well.

  10. #70
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cc008 View Post
    Maybe if that's the case, they'll put all their "big name" talent on Avengers, Inhuman, etc. stuff and we'll get more books by Asmus, Hopeless, Spurrier, PAD, Duggan, and the like. Those books will be relevant to me.. and that's all I give a crap about. Who cares about Marvel's "big picture" at that point?
    I could go for that just so long as they use the characters I like and actually write them in character, rather than rewriting them to suit whatever plot.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbowlman View Post
    I feel that Marvel putting the X-Men in the back seat could allow the X-Books to flourish creatively. If, for instance, the X-Books are allowed to ease away from the "NEXT BIG EVENT MOVIE SYNERGY" cycle that kills momentum every 6-12 issues, the X-Book writers could have more creative freedom.

    Of course, Marvel will probably take the opposite route, using the X-Books to lead readers to their more profitable franchises.
    Isn't that what's already happening? All-New X-Men has been used to shine the X-spotlight on Guardians of the Galaxy and, coming up soon, the Miles Morales Ultimate Spider-Man. Cyclops seems to be shifting away from Tyke to feature the Starjammers more, though I don't know if Fox has the rights to them. AvX was all about making the Avengers the heroes. AXIS... or SIXIS like I keep reading the logo ... seems to be more use of the X-brand to further the properties that Marvel and Disney own outright and really care about.

    At the end of the day, this is business for them and love for us. It's sad to see which one will inevitably come out on top.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    I never understood why any of this was ever denied. I get Bendis saying, "my books matter, continue to buy," but it's nice to see Marvel leadership being more honest. Instead of just saying this, they focused on a very specific response, "all the X-books aren't being cancelled next June" and acted like fans are just crazy loons. We get what's going on and don't like it. That's not some flaw with our psyches.

    Anyone can see that after opening weekend, Marvel now makes more money off Guardians than X-Men. If they can do it for GOTG, they can do it for NuHumans. None of the leadership in publishing have ever been fans of X-Men or get what they were about, anyway, which is why things like Decimation, AvX, Uncanny Avengers and most likely Axis happen.

  13. #73
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    What makes me lol is 'who sold the movie rights to Fox in the first place'?

  14. #74
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    it's nice to see Marvel leadership being more honest.
    After they lied to you for 10 years.
    But hey thumbs up for staying positive!
    I'm sure the next ten years will be so much better.
    Well worth spending your money on.

    Also I'm a unicorn and I fart rainbows.

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    funny. and where are all the commenters in here to call us crazy and delusional now. everything is just a rumor from the fringe until it's a press release. but we're just aggressive and full of it right?

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