The "DC's broken toys and how to fix them" Thread (Spoilers Galore)

[phantom1592]

You could simply say that the Wally that broke out was a version created by Manhattan after seeing the original try to survive Flashpoint.

Did they ever explain why Rebirth Wally showed up in the Kid Flash costume he hadn't worn in years? While it was always my favorite Speedster Costume... it did seem weird.

[I.Strange]

Anyone else got any ideas for Wally or any other DC character or concept that you think has been broken by poor creative decisions?

For Wally, I would go the 'reinvent a minor villain' route, i.e. Cicada. I'd keep his meta-human vendetta from the show, but play up the cult leader aspect. He targets heroes who are emotionally vulnerable, manipulating their perceptions and reasoning with dark energy (possibly tied to the Negative Speed Force). Mind control but in a "depression lies to you" way, keeping in theme of the story. So Wally's recollection of events are skewed. In actuality, the killing energy discharge was Cicada's lightning dagger.

[byrd156]

Did they ever explain why Rebirth Wally showed up in the Kid Flash costume he hadn't worn in years? While it was always my favorite Speedster Costume... it did seem weird.

Nope probably to keep him away from being the Flash.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Did they ever explain why Rebirth Wally showed up in the Kid Flash costume he hadn't worn in years? While it was always my favorite Speedster Costume... it did seem weird.

It was explained in the Rebirth special itself if I’m not mistaken. It was meant to indicate that Wally got deaged a few years upon reentering the dc universe. Presumably because of the missing 10 years that got everyone else deaged a bit after Flashpoint. He even started to tell Batman that he looks younger than Bruce should remember.

Nope probably to keep him away from being the Flash.

He became the Flash again pretty much immediately though

[byrd156]

It was explained in the Rebirth special itself if I’m not mistaken. It was meant to indicate that Wally got deaged a few years upon reentering the dc universe. Presumably because of the missing 10 years that got everyone else deaged a bit after Flashpoint. He even started to tell Batman that he looks younger than Bruce should remember.



He became the Flash again pretty much immediately though

Was he though? Do you think everything that happened to Wally would've happened to Barry? Wally is called the Flash but he sure as hell wasn't treated like one.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Was he though? Do you think everything that happened to Wally would've happened to Barry? Wally is called the Flash but he sure as hell wasn't treated like one.

I think we’re talking about 2 different things.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Was he though? Do you think everything that happened to Wally would've happened to Barry? Wally is called the Flash but he sure as hell wasn't treated like one.

Respectfully, this is not the thread for this. Thanks.

[Vakanai]

To fix Superman, I'd have it that Jon was a lifelike robot all along and everyone was brainwashed by [insert villain] into believing that Superman was a father.

[Potanical Pardon]

Once upon a time the worst DC had to fix was Hawkman and the LOSH. Nothing else. Right before Didio's reign, EVERYTHING was fixed, no toy broken.

Phase 1 was swapping Winnick and Raab and ID knowing this would kill the GL book, then it was getting good writers off Wally's book and rushing the Waid return to pretend making the Flash family into the Fantastic 4 was an awesome idea with Wally's best writer.

The man even said in an interview forever ago that his number one priority was restoring Hal and Barry at all costs. F this guy.

Hal was already planned for a return post-Spectre, but not as a replacement and Barry wasn't at all because he was the DC'S patron Saint. There was zero need for Barry to return other than self-indulgence.

What he has accomplished since is effing up every DC property's continuity. Gone were the days when this BS was limited to the Hawks and Legion. Every single property team and individual character has had to have had retcon after retcon in the last 15 years.

Zero Hour was crap, but we need a Zero Minute or whatever event that includes an exact timeline of events definitively again like that accomplished. Expand it towards Hypertime, the Multiverse and Metaverse. Don't go back to 2003/2004. What's done is done, just cherry pick away and figure out what stories should matter, plot them. Most of the properties will be instantly fixed while I'm sure we'll discover a few that still don't jibe and then just fix those over time. This would be unlike the thousand Flashpoint, Crises, Countdown, Doomsday Clocks, Multiversities, and repeated breaking/fixing Hawkman, speedsters, Batfam, Super fam, Wonderfam, Aquafam, JSA, Titans/YJ/Outsiders/Legion that have been going on every year.

[Talon1load]

Once upon a time the worst DC had to fix was Hawkman and the LOSH. Nothing else. Right before Didio's reign, EVERYTHING was fixed, no toy broken.

Phase 1 was swapping Winnick and Raab and ID knowing this would kill the GL book, then it was getting good writers off Wally's book and rushing the Waid return to pretend making the Flash family into the Fantastic 4 was an awesome idea with Wally's best writer.

The man even said in an interview forever ago that his number one priority was restoring Hal and Barry at all costs. F this guy.

Hal was already planned for a return post-Spectre, but not as a replacement and Barry wasn't at all because he was the DC'S patron Saint. There was zero need for Barry to return other than self-indulgence.

What he has accomplished since is effing up every DC property's continuity. Gone were the days when this BS was limited to the Hawks and Legion. Every single property team and individual character has had to have had retcon after retcon in the last 15 years.

Zero Hour was crap, but we need a Zero Minute or whatever event that includes an exact timeline of events definitively again like that accomplished. Expand it towards Hypertime, the Multiverse and Metaverse. Don't go back to 2003/2004. What's done is done, just cherry pick away and figure out what stories should matter, plot them. Most of the properties will be instantly fixed while I'm sure we'll discover a few that still don't jibe and then just fix those over time. This would be unlike the thousand Flashpoint, Crises, Countdown, Doomsday Clocks, Multiversities, and repeated breaking/fixing Hawkman, speedsters, Batfam, Super fam, Wonderfam, Aquafam, JSA, Titans/YJ/Outsiders/Legion that have been going on every year.

Before Dido we had Crisis on Infinite Earths and Zero Hour in what, 10 years? After Dido we go Infinite Crisis, that I loved, Final Crisis, Flashpoint, does Metal count? Doomsday Clock seems like it will lead to another reboot as well. How many times does the DCU need to b reset under one guy before they realize his continuing changing directions is messing shot up?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Before Dido we had Crisis on Infinite Earths and Zero Hour in what, 10 years? After Dido we go Infinite Crisis, that I loved, Final Crisis, Flashpoint, does Metal count? Doomsday Clock seems like it will lead to another reboot as well. How many times does the DCU need to b reset under one guy before they realize his continuing changing directions is messing shot up?

With respect, this is not the thread for this. If you want another thread to complain about Didio, please start one. This thread is for solutions, not more rants. Thanks for your understanding.

[scary harpy]

Alright, I tell you how I’d fix this mess…but I doubt you’ll like it.

Hard reboot.

Ya know it will happen sooner than later. So let’s get it over with. (I’d say and do it right but we all know by now there’s slim to no chance of that.)

I’d have a goldenish JSA earth and a silverish JLA earth… because the JSLA earth just doesn’t work.

For JSLA to work, the JSA must be the super-heroic foundation; these heroes and their villains (with the children and legacies of both) would be like royalty/superstars…with the JLA becoming the late arrivals to the party. Everybody would know of Sandman and Dr. Mid-Nite; few would be impressed by Batman. Joker and Luthor would just be more supervillains; the Injustice Society would be feared. The JSLA earth gets a lot more complicated than this: who’s included and who’s omitted will take careful consideration and planning. Based on past performance, I don’t think DC has the willingness to do research or the attention to detail to do this correctly.

Moving on…

We’d lose a lot current characters from the rebooted JSA & JLA earths. This would be sad but necessary. I will miss many of the characters from the past 30 years…but we are overcrowded now: too many characters and not enough stories. Don’t get me wrong; some will return…if there is a place for them.

That’s how I would fix the hot mess know and the DC universe. It maybe not the best idea…but a hard reboot will eventually happen since soft reboots don’t seem to work too well.

[scary harpy]

To fix Superman, I'd have it that Jon was a lifelike robot all along and everyone was brainwashed by [insert villain] into believing that Superman was a father.

That would be heartbreaking.

[Dred]

The Walter ideas don't really work because Walter never knew about Wally's kids.

The problem with making it any of Wally's Rogues is Wally's rogues don't know who he is. He has not dealt with them in this continuity. They're just Barry's rogues, outside of Zoom, who has expressly stated he's not doing his "tragedy" schtick anymore and gave up on Wally. Wally is stripped of too much to have anything to build off of.

Did they ever explain why Rebirth Wally showed up in the Kid Flash costume he hadn't worn in years? While it was always my favorite Speedster Costume... it did seem weird.

Yes. In the first arc of Titans they explain that the reason Wally was stuck in the Speed Force was not because he survived Flashpoint by being thrown there.

Wally got rebooted like everyone else. He was retconned into originally being a part of the New 52 universe.

Abra Kadabra (potentially at the manipulation of Manhattan) went back in time and erased Wally from history. This is a power he has actually displayed before so it's all pretty straightforward.

Wally, now erased from history, only exists in the Speed Force (he essentially died and that's where Speedsters go). While being in the Speed Force he saw Manhattan manipulate the universe. He didn't know who he was or how he did it, but he saw it. He also obtained the knowledge of his family from the Speed Force -- this is also in line with being lost in the Speed Force. Gaining previous lost knowledge is one of its many wrinkles.

So, Wally comes back. The reason he is in his Kid Flash outfit is because Abra Kadabra "killed" him when he was Kid Flash, as that was the only way he could ever beat Wally. Whenever Wally was The Flash he'd always lose. This little bit of logic might be Manhattan's doing, as right before AK was defeated in Titans he whispered Manhattan's name.

And then they immediately dropped that plot hook to spin in circles for a year before being broken up. DC standard Titans fare, really.

So Wally came back as Kid Flash, but with memories of a previous timeline held by the Speed Force. He essentially pulled the same trick he and Walter pulled in the Dark Flash saga. By merging with the Speed Force, he essentially merged with his past, unrebooted self like he did with Walter ages ago. Thus gaining all that knowledge. This Wally is physically from this new universe, and even has memories that only work in this universe (like how he knows who Wallace is when he obviously wouldn't otherwise), but deep recessed in his mind is all the knowledge of the previous continuity's Wally who is now dead/nonexistent via Flashpoint.

[MajorHoy]

For Wally the only fix is for this to be an imposter.

Wal Torr from Altros Prime in the 30th Century?