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  1. #46
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    That would be heartbreaking.
    Yeah that's depressing as hell.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Okay, I'll just gonna quote me from another thread, 'cause I had an idea:



    Oh, at the end Wally gives a huge middle finger to the JL.
    they will probably laugh in true villainous fashion at him and dump him back in sanctuary in chains and irons but first Harley will deliver another shot in his privates to add insult to injury so long as the old rascal didio is in charge.

  3. #48
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Remember that old STAR TREK episode when Captain Kirk got separated into two personalities - one passive, but compassionate and the other decisive, but ruthless? I'd play with this idea in a Flash/Speed Force-centric way.

    Here's the setup. Not long after Wally returned in REBIRTH, his return was detected by both Eobard Thawne and Hunter Zolomon, who are again working together. Zolomon's reasons for messing with Wally need no explanation, but Thawne's are more interesting. Thanks to his explorations of the Negative Speed Force (and dying and being reborn several times), Thawne remembers that his first-ever defeat was not at the hands of Barry Allen, but Wally West (Waid's THE RETURN OF BARRY ALLEN). That's Strike # 1 in Thawne's book against Wally. Moreover, Thawne realizes that to hurt Barry, going after him has never been as effective as going after his loved ones...especially his legacy. Put yourself in Thawne's position: if you really, really wanted to hurt Barry...beyond what you've already done to him (murdered his mother and his wife, framed his father for murder), what else can you do for an encore? RUIN Wally West, Barry's successor, proud and beloved carrier of his legacy, and in every sense that matters, Barry's "son."

    So not long after Wally's reappearance, Thawne and Zolomon zap him with the Negative Speed Force and split Wally into two distinct personalities: his good side, which is where his good judgment, good character, honesty, and compassion reside, and trap that aspect of Wally into the Negative Speed Force, from which he is unable to escape without his other half. At the same time, that other half...which is not governed by conscience, etc., and is subject to temptation and character weakness, is the one left to roam the physical world, unaware that he's missing half of himself. THIS is the version of Wally who commits the deeds seen in HEROES IN CRISIS.

    At some point in the near future, the good Wally trapped in the Negative Speed Force is able to get a subtle message out to Barry. Barry, drawing upon his experience as a forensic scientist and investigator, is able to figure out what happened, but is unable (on his own) to penetrate the Negative Speed Force and rescue good Wally. He therefore calls upon (a hopefully restored by DOOMSDAY CLOCK) Jay Garrick, Bart Allen, Wallace West, Max Mercury, and Jesse Quick to assist him. However, they will also need "bad" Wally to pull this off. Thus, at great risk, the speedsters break "bad" Wally out (heh....Breaking Bad) and together, they go into the Negative Speed Force to rescue good Wally and reunite him with his other half.

    After having encountered and defeated a number of Negative Speed Force monsters and Thawne and Zolomon themselves, the two aspects of Wally attempt to fuse together, but depending on how they "crack" it, one of two results will emerge: in Scenario A, the past in which Barry's mother was killed by Thawne will be erased and Barry's classic Silver/Bronze/Post-CRISIS Age origin will be restored, but Linda Park and Wally's kids will be forever, irrevocably lost. In Scenario B, Barry's dead mother will be locked in forever, unchangeable, but Linda and Wally's kids will be restored exactly as they were before FLASHPOINT. Not wanting the other to sacrifice for him, Barry and Wally struggle. Barry wins the struggle, and Linda and the West twins are restored (thereby undoing Barry's "original sin" in FLASHPOINT and redeeming him; he sacrificed a chance to bring back his mom so that Wally could have his family). Wally is restored to his classic self in his classic shiny suit from the 1990s with the white eyelets...fully restored, redeemed, and reunited with his family, thanks to Barry's noble sacrifice (which leaves Barry alive and well, though he must accept that the past is gone).

    In the midst of this triumph, Thawne and Zolomon escape, and emerge into the antimatter universe of Qward, where they are greeted by none other than the ANTI-MONITOR, who tells them, "Gentlemen...I have been expecting you. Perhaps we can help each other."

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    This is great! I love it. You are really killing two birds with one stone here, or rather healing those two birds and giving them a cookie to share

  4. #49
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    This is great! I love it. You are really killing two birds with one stone here, or rather healing those two birds and giving them a cookie to share
    I created the whole thing in the time it took to type that. The story nearly writes itself.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Buried Alien - THE FASTEST POST ALIVE!

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  5. #50
    Constable of Continuity Gero4568's Avatar
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    Here would be my fix for the Wally situation.

    The story begins in the Justice League prison, where they find Wally's suit, but not his body. The League investigates, but they can't find anything. Weirdly enough, when they check the cell later, Wally is apparently back in there. Barry enters alone to ask Wally if anything happened, or was he in there the entire time. Seeing that Barry was in there alone, "Wally" reveals the truth. This isn't Wally. This is someone who has also been forgotten by Barry, and someone who is more than angry with him for it. This is, Mopee, the imp from the 5th dimension that created the Flash (retcon: created Speed Force).

    Meanwhile, deep in the Speed Force, the real Wally, still with his Rebirth suit, bangs on the walls, trying to break out. Wally wants to end this, once and for all. Back on Earth, Mopee traps Barry in the Speed Force. Sensing the disturbance, Bart finds Wallace and Avery so they can save Barry. Back in the Speed Force, Barry falls into the deep Speed Force. Beyond Hypertime itself, Barry sees him. He finds the real Wally. They talk about what happened, and as their talking, Wally's existence has an actual major effect. It shocks Barry's memories back into him. Barry now remembers. He remembers dying. And returning. He knows that Wally was the Flash. Is the Flash.

    While the other speedsters are trying to get into the Speed Force, Barry and Wally concoct a plan to defeat Mopee. Mopee knows what's going on, and explains everything to them. Mopee created the Speed Force. He was the one who caused the bolt of lightning to come down. He once pestered Barry for a brief while, but he was forgotten. For a while, Mopee watched. He hoped Barry would remember him, but he didn't. When the Flashpoint hit and Dr. Manhattan started interfering, Mopee saw his chance. If Barry was going to forget him, Barry was also going to forget someone he cared about. Mopee found Wally, and trapped him in the Speed Force, erasing everyone's memories of him. He created a cover story of course, that Abra Kadabra did it.

    Eventually, Mopee started to realize the Wally was about to break out. In order to prevent this from mattering, Mopee decided to use Wally to his advantage. So he created a clone, memories in all. This clone was at Mopee's whim. In order to further damage Barry, Mopee made the Wally clone lose control. He caused HoC. He created the convoluted plan that Wally had to create a time loop. Just because he wanted to damage Barry. In order to make it seem like this never happened, Mopee releases N52 Barry and HoC Wally. As they exit the Speed Force, Bart and Wallace capture them. Bart knows they're not the real deal.

    Angered, Bart and Wallace break into the Speed Force, taking Mopee's pawns with them. While Avery tries to bring the real ones back to Earth, Bart and Wallace destroy the clones by throwing them into the deeper Speed Force. The clones give out, being artifical beings, and that Speed Force energy is infused into the real Barry and Wally. They run out of the deep Speed Force and into the real world. Mopee chases them and the restored speedsters partake in a final battle. By defeating Mopee, they reset the Speed Force, and restore everyone's memories of the Pre-Mopee timeline.

    Wally is restored and exonerated for HoC. Barry and Iris have their marriage restored as well. In this reset timeline, outside of Flash: Year 1 (The Williamson One), Flash continuity is somewhat more malleable, but with this, the Flash Family is now fully (for the most part) in Rebirth continuity. Regardless of specific details, the broad stroaks of the Flash's history are now remembered.

    The end of this story is Linda actually remembering Wally, and the two of them going off to find their children. Barry continues his story. Jesse Quick escapes the Speed Force near the end of this story as well, and will probably be trying to find Wally at some point. The very end is Mxyzptlk and Genro showing up to drag Mopee back to the Fifth Dimension for punishment, as even they are disgusted by Mopee's actions.

    Can be done in about 4 issues.
    Last edited by Gero4568; 05-30-2019 at 07:44 PM.
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  6. #51
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I created the whole thing in the time it took to type that. The story nearly writes itself.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    You should write more fanfic. It's a great way of excising your fanboy dissatisfactions.

    And, every once in awhile, you get the thrill of seeing similar ideas to yours show up in the comics. I know I was smiling ear to ear while reading Doomsday Clock #10

  7. #52
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    they will probably laugh in true villainous fashion at him and dump him back in sanctuary in chains and irons but first Harley will deliver another shot in his privates to add insult to injury so long as the old rascal didio is in charge.
    Only if they can catch him.
    Last edited by BohemiaDrinker; 05-30-2019 at 08:02 PM.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  8. #53
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if this has been stated or just something I've extrapolated on my own, but I've mentioned this before on these boards: The Spectre is the poster child for "infinite power, jobs more consistently than water is wet."

    Morrison's map of the Multiverse indicates that Heaven (and The Spectre) exist outside the confines of one, specific dimension. The reason we never really see him show up and resolve every plot, or why he loses so often despite his immense power, is that he's never appeared as a full manifestation of himself, save perhaps CoIE. At any given moment, he's fragmented across the multiverse meting out The Presence's vengeance. It's why when he does job, he doesn't just come right back: he's always dealing with something larger, more pressing.

    I don't care much for power scaling, but if you're going to say The Presence exists and that The Spectre is to be a manifestation of his vengeance, he needs to actually have some real bark to his bite. Until DC really digs their heels in and emphasizes that he's something even the biggest bads need to fear, he's just going to be a joke.

    I think it could sustain a short mini where a freshly murdered Jim Corrigan is being taken across the multiverse, sometimes linearly and sometimes not, exploring his new role in it. Some pages would take place in one moment across multiple universes and in different scenarios. For example: one in which he's hunting down a murderer, one in which he's at a JSA meeting on Earth-15714, and another where he's wrestling some grand cosmic threat for the fate of six universes. Perhaps he fails in the latter, succeeds in the former, and explains that ultimately the loss is relatively insignificant in a grander picture because it allowed him to divert his attention to 16 smaller Crisis level events and avenging 560,000 small murders while the six-universe punch up would resolve itself now that he's pitched in.

    You could do some real weird stuff with him that's equal parts disturbing, calming and creepy.

    Perhaps he doesn't take Lex, the Joker or alike because he's done so and the power vacuum was filled with something worse and he ventures back into that universe, which he continued to intervene until it collapsed into itself trying to one-up its previous monster. Really define that there is a cosmic system of checks and balances that The Spectre is responsible for maintaining and he established the Lords of Chaos and Order to exist almost as subcommittees within their speheres of influence.


    The Spectre needs more love.

  9. #54
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Space phantoms.

  10. #55
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    A pretty easy cop out for the Wally West thing would be that it wasn't the real Wally, but instead a "Speedforce Clone" like Savitar in the CW-Show.

  11. #56
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Yeah that's depressing as hell.
    That's what I said when they went all in on daddy Supes. Funny.

  12. #57
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    oh man why do you hate the kid to such a extent? don't you want poor Clark to enjoy the joys of fatherhood?

  13. #58
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Wally was supposed to be the DCU’s secret weapon against Dr M and his return was supposed to begin efforts to undo the unnatural changes Dr M made after the events of Flashpoint.

    Instead, Dr M caught wind of Wally (as seen in DDC #10) and decided to use it to his advantage by leaving the real Wally trapped in the speedforce while using his Dr M powers to create a broken duplicate of Wally that stripped away everything he held dear & left it with the memories of a timeline that no longer exists. Once Dr M’s changes start to unravel, the real Wally finally escapes and the speedforce is restored to whatever status quo it needs to be.

  14. #59
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    oh man why do you hate the kid to such a extent? don't you want poor Clark to enjoy the joys of fatherhood?
    i
    I do, and I don't. Why is that such a bad thing? So I dislike a certain huge change to the status quo, other people get all bent out of shape anytime someone suggests Supes ditches the red outer underwear. I just feel like making Superman a daddy is something that should be done in an elseworld or in a parody or homage or pastiche or something, but never ever with the mainline continuity Superman. I consider it to be breaking the character.

  15. #60
    iMan 42s
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    Contrary to popular belief, I do like things and I love the Wally West Flash. I sat Heroes in Crisis out since I was going to wait for the trade and avoid owning a dozen floppies, and it appears to be worth saving the money.

    My solution? Hunter Zolomon.

    Adding tragedy into Wally's life but in a different way. Hunter can "infect" people with dread. Basically using his powers to effectively alter the firing of neurons in someones brain to make them miserable. Therefore explaining Wally's behavior and adding a new level to Hunter's powers. Potentially even making Wally open to suggestion without even registering who is even giving it, explaining why we didn't see Hunter. On top of that, because Speedsters are not supposed to be moving that slow in any capacity (the excess power has to go somewhere even if Wally isn't thinking about it), the energy builds up which causes detonation. The effects can also linger (and may seem like they're permanent), but Wally with enough time or a jolt to his system from another Speedster will snap out of it provided Hunter isn't routinely afflicting Wally.

    Therefore people who like HIC can have the story, and we can build off that and start over without ignoring continuity for those who didn't.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

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