The "DC's broken toys and how to fix them" Thread (Spoilers Galore)

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Thanks man! I was a little hesitant posting this idea again because it kinda bombed on the John thread when I pitched it. I mentioned I wanted the narrative to be more pro-black, even gave suggestions on how, and people focused on that, got in a huff, and ignored everything else.

This is a great idea for a thread btw, Ii's very cathartic. My question to you, if you could pick a character that you dislike or are aggressively apathetic toward (apparently that's a thing), new or old, how would you fix them?

I love all the DC characters, and even the ones I am not super into have enough big fans that I wouldn't want to alter them in a way that would go against what makes them special to those fans.

That said, there are a few DC characters who I think are in need of a little help right now.

Wally is the main one who currently needs the most TLC, the rest are already being taken care of, like the JSA and Legion. With Wally, I would make him The Flash of Infinite Worlds, traveling the Multiverse in search of his family and having awesome adventures with a parade of alternate heroes like the Morrison's jeans & t-shirt Superman and more. That would give him a raison d'etre that is unique and interesting without feeling redundant now that Barry Allen is back.

Others are easy fixes like re-establishing Wonder Woman's WW2 history, by sending Steve and her back in time from the present to hang out with the JSA for approximately a decade, and maybe make a pitstop in WW1 so Diana's iconic No Man's Land moment can become part of her comics history. I would also sprinkle in a bit more of that Golden Age subversive kinky craziness that gives her something special.

[Ascended]

Skipped some pages but really liking what I'm seeing.

Walter West being the Wally we've had since Rebirth is pretty clever, I'm cool with that. Plus, I loved Walter West back in the day and seeing his return, even as a scapegoat for Wally, would be just swell.

The idea of John Stewart being a new Guardian protecting a new Xanshi is brilliant. This didn't fly on the appreciation thread? I'm surprised. The Guardians allowing an earthling into their ranks doesn't strike me as likely, but aside from that and a couple other nitpicks (I'd want to tweak some things) it's a great way to build a mythos around John while also expanding the GLC's, it builds on a lot of his history and makes one of his most defining stories work for him in a positive way. And people weren't down with this? Wow. A cosmic black man building a whole planet? Who would *not* be down with that?

Donna Troy.....I dunno. I like the idea that Donna's the new Harbinger of the multiverse and between that higher awareness and Dark Angel screwing with Donna's history, that it all sort of happened and didn't happen at the same time. Just say Donna's first origin is her real one (the orphan who's home burned down, right?) and everything else has been the result of Dark Angel trying to ruin her. Once that very simple premise is established, move forward with the Harbinger stuff and never look back. Donna Troy's continuity is an abyss that swallows lives.

If you want to update the Harbinger thing, or if the COIE reference is too dated, then you make Donna the Herald of the Metaverse (probably not that exact phrasing though; too on the nose). People understand what the Herald of Galactus does; just say Donna does that, but for the Metaverse itself.

[Ascended]

My proposed solution does have an element of "a wizard did it."

The recent issue of Justice League threw some shade at non-World's Finest heroes by claiming that Superman and Batman are so important that the 5th Dimension assigned imps to monitor each hero: Mister Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite. I chaffed at the idea that only those two of the Trinity have imps (especially considering that Aquaman had Qwisp). This got me musing if Wonder Woman had an imp, what would he/she/it look like. Then it dawned on me that Diana has a readily available candidate from her mythos: Wonder Tot!

What if Wonder Tot was a 5th dimensional imp so enamored by Wonder Woman that she came to the 3rd dimension one day and was responsible for the "Impossible Stories" from the Silver Age? She had her fun--in addition to roping in Diana and Hippolyta--by creating a "Wonder Girl." Then, one day, Wonder Tot goes back to the 5th Dimension and goes about her life.

Some time later, peeking back into the 3rd dimension a little later, Wonder Tot sees that the Bat and Supe Families had too may proteges and decided Diana needed one as well. Finding an abandoned baby girl in danger of dying, Wonder Tot arranges Diana to get to that location. History unfolds and Diana saves Donna from the fire and subsequently becomes her ward and sister.

Wonder Tot follows Donna's growth to become a real version of her Impossible Wonder Girl--and adores her as well as Diana. In the cataclysmic COIE, Wonder Tot is unable to save Diana from regression, but is able to use (all) her abilities to save Donna Troy from the ravages of the Crisis...and falls into a coma. Wonder Tot's 5th dimensional interventions has lasting and recurring irregularities and inconsistencies for Donna in each evolution/iteration of the DCU--even as the METAVERSE resets and rewrites itself.

When Wonder Tot finally heals and comes out of her coma, she works with Wonder Woman to correct the irregularities and inconsistencies...and thereby restoring Donna Troy as the adoptive sister of Diana in any and all iterations of the Wonder Woman mythos.

Shut up and take my money!

I've suggested going back to the idea that Wonder Girl was just a time travelling Diana and "Donna" was just young Diana having some fun under an assumed name. Diana's a demigod from a magic island, and if Clark can travel through time as a teenager so can she. I thought it'd add a fun twist to the typical sidekick role and open up some new story opportunities.

But Wonder Tot as an imp? F*cking awesome.

[Robanker]

Another character I've pondered for a while is The Question. Vic or Rene? Yes.

The clue has always been in the false face and matching dress code. They should operate in tandem, not as a conventional team, but more as two independent detectives that compare notes and use the mystery of their identity to obfuscate each other's identity and throw others off their trail. Is the Question a guy or girl?

"How was he in Metropolis when she was sighted in Opal City exactly three hours prior working a different case?"

"He? The Metropolitan gumshoe in question, pardon my pun, is a lady."

"Wait, what?! Did someone edit this? I know what I saw!"

I'll rip off one of my own posts from last year, but...

I think there's an angle there that could work if explored. Think about stories where Batman's still an urban legend and thugs are usually arguing if he's real, a man or an actual bat.

"The Question? You mean that faceless mug?"
"No, she was a dame!"
"Aww geddoudahere, he collared me in April. Built like a truck and hits like one too. The Question ain't no--"
*Heads knocked together from emerging hands in a dark crevice*

You get the idea.

And yes, I'm a sucker for '30s dockworker henchmen.

The Questions seeking and simultaneously hiding answers really does seem like a fun status quo. Hell, there's your tagline. "Questions only raise more Questions." With Vic returning, Rene will likely get relegated to Other Bullock in Gotham titles or a love interest for Batwoman, and frankly she's way too interesting a character to flounder in supporting roles. Elevating her back to The Question without having to kill Vic seems like the best way to get more mileage out of her.

Or just bring back Gotham Central and I'll shut right up. That's good too!

[Restingvoice]

I don't like fixing things in continuity especially with super godly magic bullcrap because it gives no incentive to writers and editors to be careful with characterization and continuity.

What I want is a full reboot with new management that requires every writer to read an official up to date wiki of a sort that DC provides and shareable between everyone before even starting to touch the characters, and an open channel communication between all writers and editors even in different departments so they can ask first before deciding to make drastic changes.

No secrets, no sudden changes, no ego-driven projects, no one creators is put above the others.

You're working on the same characters in the same shared universe for the same company, you share everything and you respect everyone.

[Robanker]

I don't like fixing things in continuity especially with super godly magic bullcrap because it gives no incentive to writers and editors to be careful with characterization and continuity.

What I want is a full reboot with new management that requires every writer to read an official up to date wiki of a sort that DC provides and shareable between everyone before even starting to touch the characters, and an open channel communication between all writers and editors even in different departments so they can ask first before deciding to make drastic changes.

No secrets, no sudden changes, no ego-driven projects, no one creators is put above the others.

You're working on the same characters in the same shared universe for the same company, you share everything and you respect everyone.

Hey brother, you got any world peace in that bag of wishes?

Even with the best of intentions, the DC universe and publishing line would have too many cooks in the kitchen for that to be feasible. They once had a senior continuity editor whose job it was to read every book and contact individual editors to note inconsistencies and it couldn't really prevent them from coming up.

[scary harpy]

I don't like fixing things in continuity especially with super godly magic bullcrap because it gives no incentive to writers and editors to be careful with characterization and continuity.

What I want is a full reboot with new management that requires every writer to read an official up to date wiki of a sort that DC provides and shareable between everyone before even starting to touch the characters, and an open channel communication between all writers and editors even in different departments so they can ask first before deciding to make drastic changes.

No secrets, no sudden changes, no ego-driven projects, no one creators is put above the others.

You're working on the same characters in the same shared universe for the same company, you share everything and you respect everyone.

I love this idea.

[Restingvoice]

Hey brother, you got any world peace in that bag of wishes?

Even with the best of intentions, the DC universe and publishing line would have too many cooks in the kitchen for that to be feasible. They once had a senior continuity editor whose job it was to read every book and contact individual editors to note inconsistencies and it couldn't really prevent them from coming up.

No, that's for my version of the United Nations.

Really? Cool, but my version requires everyone to actively care about continuity, not just one person. Include it in the contract if I have to.

Then, narrow down the list of books. No one character can have multiple books or teams. Start with Justice League, Titans (combining both the teen and the YA), and Green Lantern Corps then spread out from there.

[Robanker]

No, that's for my version of the United Nations.

Really? Cool, but my version requires everyone to actively care about continuity, not just one person. Include it in the contract if I have to.

Then, narrow down the list of books. No one character can have multiple books or teams. Start with Justice League, Titans (combining both the teen and the YA), and Green Lantern Corps then spread out from there.

So long as someone's in charge, nepotism will come into effect at some level. Workplace cliques will form and office politics will form. It's the fate of every large workplace.

Continuity? Most writers want to feel like they matter in the grand scheme of history so they do what they can to leave their mark on them. It's their form of immortality. What you're asking for is, frankly, for people to be entirely selfless for hire and I don't see that happening, well, ever. Certainly not for an extended period.

Reducing your top selling content to the same units as your lowest selling is also not a sound business plan. I agree that making the DCU one character's stomping grounds and everyone else their supporting cast is poor creative direction, but if Batman, Superman and so on can justify a second book, give it to them. Moreover, the employees which generate the most profit and praise for the company will absolutely gain more pull and trust to turn the company's resources into more profitable IP. It's basic business. That's where your market is. Where I draw the line is a Justice League Dark movie starring flippin' Batman.

Cheese it, Bruce. Leave this to the wizards.

[Restingvoice]

So long as someone's in charge, nepotism will come into effect at some level. Workplace cliques will form and office politics will form. It's the fate of every large workplace.

Continuity? Most writers want to feel like they matter in the grand scheme of history so they do what they can to leave their mark on them. It's their form of immortality. What you're asking for is, frankly, for people to be entirely selfless for hire and I don't see that happening, well, ever. Certainly not for an extended period.

Reducing your top selling content to the same units as your lowest selling is also not a sound business plan. I agree that making the DCU one character's stomping grounds and everyone else their supporting cast is poor creative direction, but if Batman, Superman and so on can justify a second book, give it to them. Moreover, the employees which generate the most profit and praise for the company will absolutely gain more pull and trust to turn the company's resources into more profitable IP. It's basic business. That's where your market is. Where I draw the line is a Justice League Dark movie starring flippin' Batman.

Cheese it, Bruce. Leave this to the wizards.

Oh, I agree with the Batman-Superman part. They've proven they can sell higher than Justice League so they can keep their solo. Same with Titans and Teen Titans. If it turns out there are too many characters, and there are, we spread them out. Then go further from there if necessary.

That's why I said, "we spread out from there". I'm still gonna look at sales and demand.

If we want to be realistic, then the main purpose of the continuity rule is to keep the characterization in line. The timeline I'm not worried as much, but if you want to be specific, I can make every member of Justice League solo to work their weekdays in their own city and their own title, while the Justice League is their weekend job. Something like that. All stories are planned in advance, so there's still time to keep things in continuity.

As for the writers, if they want to leave their mark, that doesn't mean it's not allowed. They can create new characters and they can make drastic changes to the characters. There just need to be an agreement with people in charge of the characters involved and the development has to make sense based on the character history.

Or... compromise, I'll give the ego and nepotistic people their own Earth to play. Earth-53 for example. It doesn't have to be 52. They can do whatever they want there since they won't affect the main continuity, as long as there's still one Earth where there's a tighter continuity.

This kinda goes back to an old question whether I want tight continuity or no continuity... I personally can go with either, I just don't want them to be mixed up.

[Buried Alien]

It's Scandinavian smorgasbord continuity:



Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Robanker]

It's Scandinavian smorgasbord continuity:



Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Thanks, man. I came here to read your insights and now I want to eat my phone.

[Sutekh]

[SNIP] When Wonder Tot finally heals and comes out of her coma, she works with Wonder Woman to correct the irregularities and inconsistencies...and thereby restoring Donna Troy as the adoptive sister of Diana in any and all iterations of the Wonder Woman mythos.

I love this idea!

It's particularly cool that 'Wonder Tot', unlike Bat-Mite and Myxy, isn't quite as much of a tormentor or screw up, by nature, and is (childishly, perhaps) trying to make 'her hero' better (something both of the other imps claim to be doing, but rarely do).

[superduperman]

Hard reboot. Everyone starts at the beginning. Kind of the only way to do it.

[Dred]

Hard reboot. Everyone starts at the beginning. Kind of the only way to do it.

There's a lot of baby in your bathwater, friend.