Any other franchise of pop fiction have as convoluted a continuity as DC Comics?

[krazijoe]

The space part is in the future so it doesn't count.

Manhattan was not the last movie. The last movie before they rebooted was Freddy vs Jason, and before that, I forgot, but it's the one where it ended with Freddy stealing his mask which leads to the VS movie.

At the end of Freddy vs Jason, he's still living dead in Crystal Lake.

His mother was only in the first movie. She's dead.

Jason was a zombie, first revived by a lightning strike, then revived a second time by Freddy.

What drives him is revenge for his mother.

Because they're kids. We have people filming in haunted locations today, so it's not like it doesn't make sense that they like to go to forbidden urban legend places.

According to the game, he can teleport.

No, he was thought to be dead as a kid but lived in the woods this whole time and never developed mentally so he never had a chance to learn. He stole the hockey mask from... someone... I forgot. One of the campers I think. Third movie.

Oh my OP answer is Marvel, but less about continuity, since they only have one, but more about consistency.

But can he dodge a Silver death ball!?!?!? Probably not! BEWARE THE BALL!!!

[Restingvoice]

But can he dodge a Silver death ball!?!?!? Probably not! BEWARE THE BALL!!!

What the heck is that? XD

Oh... I haven't watched that one

[Jcady59]

The legend of Zelda franchise.

[Jackalope89]

The space part is in the future so it doesn't count.

Manhattan was not the last movie. The last movie before they rebooted was Freddy vs Jason, and before that, I forgot, but it's the one where it ended with Freddy stealing his mask which leads to the VS movie.

At the end of Freddy vs Jason, he's still living dead in Crystal Lake.

His mother was only in the first movie. She's dead.

Jason was a zombie, first revived by a lightning strike, then revived a second time by Freddy.

What drives him is revenge for his mother.

Because they're kids. We have people filming in haunted locations today, so it's not like it doesn't make sense that they like to go to forbidden urban legend places.

According to the game, he can teleport.

No, he was thought to be dead as a kid but lived in the woods this whole time and never developed mentally so he never had a chance to learn. He stole the hockey mask from... someone... I forgot. One of the campers I think. Third movie.

Oh my OP answer is Marvel, but less about continuity, since they only have one, but more about consistency.

You forgot one thing; Jason then joined a Boy Band with former nemesis Freddy and other film serial killers.

[krazijoe]

You forgot one thing; Jason then joined a Boy Band with former nemesis Freddy and other film serial killers.

I guess they let the Scream dude in to appeal to the Millennials.

[Jackalope89]

I guess they let the Scream dude in to appeal to the Millennials.

Don't lump me in there! Never even watched a Scream film.

[Gaastra]

I feel like Marvel's continuity is far messier.

DC is far worse. The worst for marvel is omd. Pick up a 40s captain America, 60s Spider-Man, 70s avengers, 80s hulk, 90s X-Men, and 2000 issue of thor and they are all still canon with the marvel universe. Even some of marvel west and monster comics from the 50s are canon.

Pick up a 40s superman, 50s gl, 60s batman, 70s wonder woman, 80s titans, 90s flash, and 2000 jla and you have three universes and stories not canon anymore with each other and with many other universe supermans. The ww2 supes, pre crisis supes, post crisis supes, new 52 supes and now back to post crisis supes again! The dc book from just 15 years ago is not canon with the universe today and the comic from 30 years ago is not canon with the one after it! The jla founding members have changed three times but it's still the same founding avengers from the 60s. Lets not forget the mess that is hawkman and legion of superheroes history.

Dc history is a huge mess!


On the other hand the fox X-Men films are a huge mess even before dofp!


Transformers follows marvel rules and are part of a multiverse. The armada comic even had a story dealing with other realities around transformers. Gobots after getting bought by Hasbro has even been reconned into just being another universe of transformers!

Transformers splits up all the universe as their own. Now the Hasbroverse has a LOT of explaining to do.

For those of you who don't know the hasbroverse was the Hasbro cartoons all taking place in the same universe with stuff showing up in each others shows like inhumanoids was in a news clip in jem, cobra commander and hawk showing up in transformers, songs from jem showing up in gijoe, etc.

[Frontier]

DC is far worse. The worst for marvel is omd. Pick up a 40s captain America, 60s Spider-Man, 70s avengers, 80s hulk, 90s X-Men, and 2000 issue of thor and they are all still canon with the marvel universe. Even some of marvel west and monster comics from the 50s are canon.

Pick up a 40s superman, 50s gl, 60s batman, 70s wonder woman, 80s titans, 90s flash, and 2000 jla and you have three universes and stories not canon anymore with each other and with many other universe supermans. The ww2 supes, pre crisis supes, post crisis supes, new 52 supes and now back to post crisis supes again! The dc book from just 15 years ago is not canon with the universe today and the comic from 30 years ago is not canon with the one after it! The jla founding members have changed three times but it's still the same founding avengers from the 60s. Lets not forget the mess that is hawkman and legion of superheroes history.

Dc history is a huge mess!


On the other hand the fox X-Men films are a huge mess even before dofp!


Transformers follows marvel rules and are part of a multiverse. The armada comic even had a story dealing with other realities around transformers. Gobots after getting bought by Hasbro has even been reconned into just being another universe of transformers!



For those of you who don't know the hasbroverse was the Hasbro cartoons all taking place in the same universe with stuff showing up in each others shows like inhumanoids was in a news clip in jem, cobra commander and hawk showing up in transformers, songs from jem showing up in gijoe, etc.

Although even the Marvel continuity isn't always easy to reconicle with how vastly different and contradictory certain eras are from each other.

Just look at all the arguments in the Thor Appreciation Thread.

[Factor]

Although even the Marvel continuity isn't always easy to reconicle with how vastly different and contradictory certain eras are from each other.

Just look at all the arguments in the Thor Appreciation Thread.

Yeah, but those are somewhat minor points. We don't even know WHAT is Rebirth continuity. We have no idea what happemed and what didn't anymore.

[Dog of War]

Kingdom Hearts is a convoluted mess.

[Stick Figure]

I choose to ignore most DC history and focus on the current stories. I know I don’t have much interest in golden or silver age books because the writing is so simple. No need to acknowledge it. Both companies should focus more on telling good stories and less on what did Gwen Stacy do following this issue of Spider-man. The character has no relevance to modern stories.

[CaptCleghorn]

And this is just the movies. Perhaps we should consider novels as well?

[LP22]

Zelda,Kingdom hearts

[bat39]

DC is far worse. The worst for marvel is omd. Pick up a 40s captain America, 60s Spider-Man, 70s avengers, 80s hulk, 90s X-Men, and 2000 issue of thor and they are all still canon with the marvel universe. Even some of marvel west and monster comics from the 50s are canon.

Pick up a 40s superman, 50s gl, 60s batman, 70s wonder woman, 80s titans, 90s flash, and 2000 jla and you have three universes and stories not canon anymore with each other and with many other universe supermans. The ww2 supes, pre crisis supes, post crisis supes, new 52 supes and now back to post crisis supes again! The dc book from just 15 years ago is not canon with the universe today and the comic from 30 years ago is not canon with the one after it! The jla founding members have changed three times but it's still the same founding avengers from the 60s. Lets not forget the mess that is hawkman and legion of superheroes history.

What particularly makes DC convoluted is not merely the vast library or the multiple continuities. Loads of franchises have vast libraries (well, admittedly not as vast as DC's) and multiple continuities.

The problem with DC is that, owing to their frequent retcons and reboots and cosmic resets, their continuity at any given point of time is a patchwork of multiple continuities! So its not a simple question of whether this story or this series is 'canon' or not - you need to wrap your head around the fact that certain elements of multiple contradictory stories co-exist in the same universe...sometimes without even knowing which elements are supposed to be 'in continuity' in any given week!

I mean, consider the Rebirth universe right now. You have a Superman who is 'mostly' the Post-COIE version, but with some elements of the New 52 version thrown in. You have a Batman who is again 'mostly' the Post-COIE version, but some of his supporting cast are still their rebooted New 52 selves. You have a Flash family that are the New 52 versions who sometimes remember Post-COIE continuity. You have a Wonder Woman who is supposed to be some kind of blend of the Post-COIE and New 52 versions. A Green Arrow who's the New 52 version who's life has become more like the Post-COIE version, with a helping of the Arrow TV show thrown in. Supergirl is the New 52 version even though she's now the cousin of the psuedo-Post COIE version. Not even sure what Aquaman's scene is anymore. And so on.

Its not just that 60's Batman or 90's Flash aren't in the same universe. That would be fairly easy to figure out after a point. Its that one day, 60's Batman could be in canon and 90's Flash is just a memory of an alternate timeline...the next day, 60's Batman is no longer canon and the timeline is altering to make 90's Flash 'real' again!

One advantage DC does have is the capacity to make this continuity mess a part of their ongoing narrative - as they've admirably done in the latest issue of Doomsday Clock. But it doesn't really make the continuity any less convoluted...just provides an in-story rationale for it.

And this is just the movies. Perhaps we should consider novels as well?

Honestly, James Bond continuity is only 'convoluted' if you really think too much about it.

The Bond films are largely meant to be episodic. Its all the same guy. Whether you want to believe that Connery's Bond is in a different universe to Dalton's Bond is entirely up to you, but it makes no difference to the narrative of the films. Craig's Bond is a total reboot - yes, the last couple of films have paid homage to a lot of classic stuff, but that doesn't strictly bring those old films back 'in continuity'. Let's see how they handle the franchise after Craig leaves...

The books are simpler. There are Fleming's novels which are largely consistent (apart from a few subtle retcons to Bond's backstory in the later books). A bunch of the recent continuation novels are set in and around the Fleming Bond timeline.

Then you have the continuation novels by authors John Gardener and Raymond Benson, both of which update Bond to the 80's and 90's respectively but maintain the Fleming novels as a vague backstory. Ultimately though, the stories are mostly episodic, so it doesn't really matter much.

[blunt_eastwood]

Yeah the bond movies are very simple. Everything before Casino Royale was a self contained movie. And everything from Royale onwards continued the same story.