Whats your opinion of Jonathan Samuel Kent and Conner Kent in general?

[Vakanai]

I agree that Conner is awesome, I didnt agree on Jonathan....

Yeah, I knew that, thought it was an obvious joke.

We can agree to disagree on Jonathan. You can like him, but I'll always hate that the kid is their kid.

“And wasn’t the child of Clark and Lois...”. LOL

Yeah, I can’t believe that DC Comics gave Superman a child with the woman he’s been clear he’s in love with and committed to marry/married to, save the blip of the new 52, for almost 30 years now. I can’t believe they gave him a kid with the woman he’s been romantically tied to and openly expressing his love to for literally 80 years—-always returning to her and coming back to her even in times when they temporarily are pulled other directions —-especially when their deep desire to have children together has been a low key but ever simmering plot point including being an undercurrent in mainstream comics, All Star Superman and several of the most famous and popular media properties including both Lois and Clark and Smallville. What were they THINKING? LOL

I can't believe they stuck him with a permanent and unnecessary status quo change. I don't like it. I'll never like it, and that's perfectly fine. Why the hell is my preference from what I want out of Superman so fucking LOL worthy to you? He was childless and just fine for most of his 75+ year history, why is wanting that to continue so effing horrible? I'm not going around judging fans of the change, why is it acceptable to find me so laughable for not being a fan of it?
This is why I sometimes hate the internet. Even Superman fans can act like super-jerks.

[DochaDocha]

He was able hold him down for seconds and Robin used KRYPTONITE! which DOESNT mean won the fight....
If Conner would have knocked Superman out OK, but not so.....

As far as I'm concerned, at that given moment Robin and Conner had one objective, and they achieved it. A win is a win. Mind-controlled Batman and Superman had one job, and they failed.

Thats not true:

1. Speaking about Speed
https://imgur.com/a/T7S9Z7J
This is from the Comic, so he HAS Super-Speed, BUT NOT AT SUPERMAN,FLASH LEVEL...

2. NOT TRUE...
You can be as skilled as you will, if the strenght,speed and durability difference is so HUGE!! Black Canary wouldnt have ANY chance!!

This isnt just simply trained martial artists over street brawlers....in this case YES, BUT HERE NO...because like I said the difference is to BIG for that...its more PIS...

You can compensate the strenght difference with skills etc. BUT only to a certain level and here we speak about HUMAN vs someone who has 30% or so of SUPERMANS Power Level and is able to rip tanks in pieces etc.

Yeah, this leads a lot into my general dislike of the use of martial arts in these stories. If a guy hits as hard as Conner does, standard martial arts aren't going to work the same as they do against random thugs. It's like saying, "Hi there, Kung Fu master. Please win a hand-to-hand fight against that ape over there." I feel exactly the same about that scene in the JL cartoon when Kalibak threw a punch at Batman and Batman flipped him. Well, actually, the JL scene is a lot worse for a lot of reasons... Anyway, I don't like how these shows have a tendency to pace action scenes as though if one guy knows martial arts, and the other guy is super powerful but doesn't know them, then the martial artist always easily wins.

Maybe in my head I'll just say that Conner was not only overconfident, he knew that if he actually landed a punch on BC, her head would explode, so he pulled his punches. Also, it's a sparring session. The point was not to win a slugfest, but to get "style points," so of course BC was going to win.

[Masterff]

As far as I'm concerned, at that given moment Robin and Conner had one objective, and they achieved it. A win is a win. Mind-controlled Batman and Superman had one job, and they failed.



Yeah, this leads a lot into my general dislike of the use of martial arts in these stories. If a guy hits as hard as Conner does, standard martial arts aren't going to work the same as they do against random thugs. It's like saying, "Hi there, Kung Fu master. Please win a hand-to-hand fight against that ape over there." I feel exactly the same about that scene in the JL cartoon when Kalibak threw a punch at Batman and Batman flipped him. Well, actually, the JL scene is a lot worse for a lot of reasons... Anyway, I don't like how these shows have a tendency to pace action scenes as though if one guy knows martial arts, and the other guy is super powerful but doesn't know them, then the martial artist always easily wins.

Maybe in my head I'll just say that Conner was not only overconfident, he knew that if he actually landed a punch on BC, her head would explode, so he pulled his punches. Also, it's a sparring session. The point was not to win a slugfest, but to get "style points," so of course BC was going to win.

Yes not the strenght, BUT also the SPEED
https://imgur.com/a/T7S9Z7J (this is the SAME Conner) and if you are fast enough to deflect BULLETS you ARE able to react to a normal human...

AND!!! dont forget durability!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0KmuP2zPoY

Look at the kick of her, normally if you KICK Superman he would SMILE and you have a BROKEN leg...and Superman WOULDNT fall down..

[SiegePerilous02]

“And wasn’t the child of Clark and Lois...”. LOL

Yeah, I can’t believe that DC Comics gave Superman a child with the woman he’s been clear he’s in love with and committed to marry/married to, save the blip of the new 52, for almost 30 years now. I can’t believe they gave him a kid with the woman he’s been romantically tied to and openly expressing his love to for literally 80 years—-always returning to her and coming back to her even in times when they temporarily are pulled other directions —-especially when their deep desire to have children together has been a low key but ever simmering plot point including being an undercurrent in mainstream comics, All Star Superman and several of the most famous and popular media properties including both Lois and Clark and Smallville. What were they THINKING? LOL

Not everyone is going to be fond of the idea of Superman having a kid. Regardless of who it is with (and Vakanai specifically said they didn't like Superman having a kid), so that's not necessarily a knock on Lois even though she really is the most obvious choice.

I can't say I'm at all fond of the way he was brought into the continuity. It's just kind of a mess and it ages them both too quickly. it's like they had to fall in love and get married too early in the timeline to have him be the age he is. I would have rather seen their journey to being new parents instead of rushing the kid to 10 years old.

[Jackalope89]

Thats not true:

1. Speaking about Speed
https://imgur.com/a/T7S9Z7J
This is from the Comic, so he HAS Super-Speed, BUT NOT AT SUPERMAN,FLASH LEVEL...

2. NOT TRUE...
You can be as skilled as you will, if the strenght,speed and durability difference is so HUGE!! Black Canary wouldnt have ANY chance!!

This isnt just simply trained martial artists over street brawlers....in this case YES, BUT HERE NO...because like I said the difference is to BIG for that...its more PIS...

You can compensate the strenght difference with skills etc. BUT only to a certain level and here we speak about HUMAN vs someone who has 30% or so of SUPERMANS Power Level and is able to rip tanks in pieces etc.

In the animated series? Nope. No super speed.
And not once have I mentioned the comic version.

And sorry, but flipping someone over isn't about brute force. Its about technique and taking the person's center of balance away from them.

If Connor weighed several hundred pounds or more, sure. Dinah isn't flipping him. Since he's not berserking, over confident, untrained, and weighing as much as a human would his size? He's getting flipped. End of story.

[DochaDocha]

In the animated series? Nope. No super speed.
And not once have I mentioned the comic version.

And sorry, but flipping someone over isn't about brute force. Its about technique and taking the person's center of balance away from them.

If Connor weighed several hundred pounds or more, sure. Dinah isn't flipping him. Since he's not berserking, over confident, untrained, and weighing as much as a human would his size? He's getting flipped. End of story.

The comic scan in question is supposed to be canon(ish?) with the cartoon.

Okay, so I rewatched the scene in question. I think it's okay here and there, but mostly it's that Hollywood martial arts/dancing stuff that I'm not all that fond of these days. I can make the argument that Connor is so bad at it that he essentially fights like the drunken idiot I referenced earlier: all his moves are telegraphed with slow, loopy windups. He also swings wildly and off-balanced so he can get flipped. One could also say that BC and other JL members have a super version of martial arts they use to fight stronger creatures, but that kind of leads us back to my first complaint that the show relies on that too much to explain their fights between metas/aliens/robots vs. the non-powered humans. I'm personally more interested in stories where martial arts help you narrow the physicality gap when the gap already is manageable, but don't go so far as to swing a completely physical mismatch in the weaker person's favor.

The one thing I do wonder a lot about is the leg sweep BC uses. Should that work on Connor? We'll never know for sure, because this is all fiction, but I'm inclined to think it probably shouldn't. Connor can stand his ground pretty well when hit with big force. Maybe if he's totally unprepared for it, he's vulnerable, and if he chooses to make himself relatively unmovable, then that sweep ends up hurting BC more than anything.

Anyway, it's all preferential. My preference, based on my own experience as well as watching MMA and boxing and such, I don't like these sort of comeuppance scenes. If I'm going to pretend Connor can dish out damage like that, and tank a lot of hits, then he's not going to get embarrassed to that degree unless he was sparring with someone like Wonder Woman. BC can teach him proper technique, but sparring with him should be like sparring against a cyborg ape on steroids. You're not going to be able to anticipate every move, you can't duck and dodge all (if any) attacks that easily, and because of Connor's striking power, grappling power, and ability to fend off strikes to his head and other vulnerable areas, BC can't control space. Wonder Woman can, she can't.

[KC]

I am indifferent to Conner.

I loved Jon when he was a kid. He was a breath of fresh air to the franchise when it was desperately needed. He added a lot to Superman and his stories and was honestly the best thing to happen to the franchise in the last 10 years. Also, his friendship with Damian added a lot to that character as well. I hate that Bendis aged him up and I think it got rid of a lot of the great stuff that the character added.

[Kuwagaton]

Ha, I thought this was a thread about Jon Lane Kent. Oh, well:

I will never call him Conner. Conner to me evokes a needy, easily humbled victim. Kon became my favorite character almost instantly, and I started checking out comics back in Zero Hour when he fought the other Superboy. Kesel, Marz, Kelly, David... a lot of people put in work to make him a fun character who was definitely not just another Clark, and he had deep ties to all those old Kirby characters and many newer characters. Remember the Ravers? TTK was also great because with all the characters who crib from Superman, here was something unique that could be applied in hundreds of different ways. You could tell Kesel and Grummett had a lot of fun. What he's been since Johns, Lemire, and that cartoon... eh. I'd respect those changes if they were very successful, but he's gone from the B list to the D list. I'm curious to see what Bendis can rectify and how.

I don't think Bendis has ruined Jon, but things aren't looking good. Bringing back Kon but making Jon similar in age, pulling him away from Damian? I dunno. It's gonna be tough to top Supersons.

[Superlad93]

I'm the odd man out, I guess.

I've been a fan of Conner's since I started comics. Honestly, he's the character that got me to collect comics to start with. The 90's stuff was before my time, but through back issues and such, I found an appreciation for that time even though Zack Morris/Bart Simpson with super powers doesn't quite do it for me. My real time with Conner was during all the Johns stuff, and it was a mixed bag most of the time, but I really dug it on at least a conceptual level. Gave the New 52 a try but fell off pretty quick. There was something there with some of the ideas, but it was bloated buried the hell out of the point of the character. I've been mostly lukewarm on the character in all his forms since then. Kind of worried that my sensibilities have passed him by, but I'm hoping Bendis has something that'll engage me again. So far so good.

I was somewhat surprised how well I took to Jon's concept and character at first. The lack of irony to just play the idea of Superman's son straight really laid a great foundation for me. As a character, his can-do/never-give-up attitude made him charming, and the mystery factor of what it means for him to even exist and him unironcially wanting to be Superman one day made him conceptually compelling. But as Rebirth grew a little long in the tooth, and any of the mystique of his potential was being actively swapped out for "chibi Superman", I wasn't backing out, but I was disappointed and a little underwhelmed. Then Bendis' run started and we got he controversial age up and 'shipwrecked on Earth-3', and now I had more questions, yes, but I also got one of favorite concept: Jon Kent's indomitable will. Plus, all this cool space prince feel with the recontextualization of the Superman family as intergalactic royalty. But I'm kind of left with with this cautious optimism, because this'll either go reeeeeeaaly well for me, or it won't. My hopes are pretty high.

[Masterff]

I have to say that I also liked the NEW52 Kon El, BUT!!!

-he had a strange character which was kind of interesting because of him being artificial made, so he was as he had Asperger or so...
-the Kon El (Abomination) and Relationship with Supergirl was annyoing as NEW52 Supergirl was in general
-he should have had normal Super-Strenght as well

And more than everything else: NEW52 Kon El should have become more a member of the Bat-Family like a Super-Nightwing, because his abilities to detect chemicals,Super-Intelligence,learning languages by touch,scanning things etc. was more suited for a detective character....

[Masterff]

In the animated series? Nope. No super speed.
And not once have I mentioned the comic version.

And sorry, but flipping someone over isn't about brute force. Its about technique and taking the person's center of balance away from them.

If Connor weighed several hundred pounds or more, sure. Dinah isn't flipping him. Since he's not berserking, over confident, untrained, and weighing as much as a human would his size? He's getting flipped. End of story.

This comic is CANON for the TV YOUNG JUSTICE SERIES....So ITS THE SAME CHARACTER....

And no flipping over doesnt work so easy, otherwise we could also have lots of people who do that with Superman etc. and the leg swipping shouldnt work since his durability and strenght...

[Kon93]

I got into comics exactly when kon showed up for the 1st time and I have seen every single appearance of his in the comics in real time from the start till now, missing not one, and he is still my favorite character. I'll admit that nothing comes close to getting that monthly superboy comic back then, even when the quality of the art or story was blah, it still was wow. Now the quality is more consistent, but also more bland and less fun,but still good.god what I wouldn't give for a good mix of then and now mixed together.

These 2 looks NEED to be combined, his powers NEED to be a mix of both powersets, his personality and attitude NEED to be a mix of the young and old kon.

Jon just needs to be 10 again, he was wonderful the way he was.

[Kon93]

detect chemicals,Super-Intelligence,learning languages by touch,scanning things etc.

These are the things I hope the kon we have now in the YJ book can do also Masterff, those are the things I liked and were special about the new 52 power wise

[Kon93]

This comic is CANON for the TV YOUNG JUSTICE SERIES....So ITS THE SAME CHARACTER....

And no flipping over doesnt work so easy, otherwise we could also have lots of people who do that with Superman etc. and the leg swipping shouldnt work since his durability and strenght...

Super characters in cartoons are always punching bags no matter how powerful they are. Kon could have been as powerful as superman himself and he still would have been flipped by black canary, it's what they do with the wearers of the big S on their chest.

Btw I have always wanted YJ show kon, under near death pressure, unlock his TTK. With it he would be superman level and cool as hell.

[Superlad93]

One thing I've always dug about Conner, at least symbolically, was that he never wore the cape.

There's meaning behind that, and the fact that had he been allowed to grow to adulthood in his tube, he'd have had a cape. The symbolism obviously being that the cape meant having to following his design and be Superman, and had he not been rescued from that lab he would've had no choice in the matter. Conner's story isn't about legacy or a prince-like destiny (that's Jon's thing, and he does it to great effect), but rather, at its core, the way I've come to see it, it's about choice, and he's constantly given crossroads to follow by way of mentors, friends, biology, and programming.

It's akin to how Dick sort of sums up his feelings on being Batman when he says that the cape always threw him off balance. With Bendis going more for the idea that Conner is trying to start a new chapter in his life, and his found family (Young Justice) is where he feels most at home and himself, I'm reminded of his continued choice to not wear the cape. Him remarking that he's let his genetics and unspoken expectations dictate his life long enough have me thinking there's going to be some pretty interesting shifts in how he functions now that he seems to have come up from under the idea of the cape as his predetermined future.

This is almost directly in stark contrast to to Jon who at every turn chooses the cape. His worst fear is that there's something wrong with him and he won't be good enough when it comes time for him to be that guy, and additionally his greatest triumph was being put in a position where the most important part about earning the cape (strength of will and character) was tested, and he passed with flying colors by choosing to be who he's been raised to be. And similar to Conner he was given the power of choice early on in life because he didn't always know he was Superman's son, but when his heritage became clear he embraced it like Arthur took to the sword. This cover is instantly iconic in its own right, appropriately evokes Clark's discovery of his heritage, and denotes a great sort of "you're a wizard, Harry" destiny discovery idea. His is a story of legacy and learning to carry the weight of something far greater than himself by just being himself.

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByLrJ1xBlrN/

So when you have the above shot of the Houses of El and Zod and their six flowing capes, it's very much a prince learning to one day be a king.

The similarities and contrast between these two is something I look forward to seeing explored. In my opinion there age matters so little when put against the grand and compelling ideas they've being dealing with.