Why didnt DC make more out of Kon-El?

[Masterff]

Hello,

one question which I ABSOLUTELY DONT UNDERSTAND:

I look at Marvels Spider-Man and he is so popular, well liked etc.
I dont understand why DC didnt transform Conner in DC's Spider-Man.


I mean it would be simple:
Dont use the completely clown Version of Conner, make him more serious, but still a rebel, like the Rebirth Version.
I never understood why DC was using such extreme Version of Conner: 1. he was to extreme funny, childish then 2. during TT he became angsty and passive...
For some time like in the Black Zero Story he seemed to be welcome by Batman,Wonder Woman etc. but then later he became more childish and Batman for example began to look down on him etc.

Use the Rebirth Look, make him serious, but still funny,sarcastic,rebelious, give him a town of his own, give him his own Villains (who are also able to fight against Superman, not Clowns like Side-Arm or so), let him also be a hero and ally in Superman,Wonder Woman,Batmans Eyes...

I hope Rebirth will deal better with him and dont transform him into one of the 2 extremas listed above...


I mean I REALLY LIKED him TT and I LOVED that he became a hero and a legend of his own and he was able to fight against Superboy Prime, BUT!! he also lost some of his personality there...

[MajorHoy]

Hello,

one question which I ABSOLUTELY DONT UNDERSTAND:

I look at Marvels Spider-Man and he is so popular, well liked etc.
I dont understand why DC didnt transform Conner in DC's Spider-Man.

The two characters really don't have anything in common.

Spider-Man was created early on in Marvel Comics and did not have an older hero as the head of his franchise.

Conner / Kon-El didn't have his first appearance until more than fifty years after Superman's first appearance, and he wasn't even the first (or even the second) character to be "Superboy".
The first one (Superman himself as a boy/teen) had first appeared in late 1944, about six years after the adult Superman first appeared in Action Comics #1.

[Masterff]

The two characters really don't have anything in common.

Dick Grayson is probably closer in personality to Peter (upbeat, can be angsty and brooding, trolls his enemies and has a sense of humor) while also an agility based hero. I think he makes for a better Spider-Man analgoue.

Trying to force an established character far outside their established characterisation just to ape the competition won't please anyone in the long run.

Moreover, Kon-El has historically not been the most popular sidekick or teen hero, so I don't know why DC would invest all those resources, time and soft sales trying to build him up instead of going with a Robin which would have a higher sales floor and ce

Ultimately, DC won't be able to make their own Spider-Man and have it be as successful. I'd personally prefer if they focused on telling great Kon-El stories.

NO....

You talk about JOHNS TT KON-EL

I am talking about the early Kon El (when he first appeared etc.)

http://i.imgur.com/nFvvMUZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/K8f2OyK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aLg5eId.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gxQVUoG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2Nt9QBF.jpg

Also think back at early Superboy when he was taking a surfboard to catch the gang on Hawaii
https://pheelyks.tumblr.com/post/160...t-superboy-can

The EARLY Kon El had a LOT!!! of common to Spider-Man...

He was funny,cocky,saracastic,made sarcastic comments etc.

MUCH more than Nightwing...

and I also remind back at the Amalgan Version of Spider-Man and Superboy..

Because there is no way to make a Superman spin off character, and one that appeared so late in the game no less (90s whereas Clark showed up in 1938 and had all his iconic stuff by the 50s and 60s), an equivalent to Spider-Man. Who is his own franchise lead and has way more decades worth of stories and developed supporting characters/villains and other media appearances that have made him what he is.

Not that DC couldn't/shouldn't do more with Kon, but Spider-Man level is too lofty an expectation.

I wouldnt say that...

If you look back at the old Kon El, like his characterization above, how he was displayed early, then you could say that he and Peter had a lot in common, like being sarcastic,making fun of the enemies etc.

So if you characterize him more than he was early as he first showed up during Reign of the Supermen etc., give him a town of his own and give him some cool villains, he could reach a good level and become quite successfull...

I took Spider-Man, because the early Kon El reminds me a lot of him....

[Masterff]

I wouldnt say that he becomes immediatly as successful as Spider-Man is, BUT!!
If you give him a town of his own,dont let other,older Superheroes look down on him,try to recreate good villains,let him save people out of burning houses etc. etc. bring back the old Kon El, the sarcastic,funny one....and he could become an even bigger star...

AND look also at the movie "Reign of Supermen" from this year...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgsozVwzRTM

YJ Comic seems to be finally getting in a good way what..

[Kon93]

He should be a mix of the funny hero who makes fun of his opponents, and a field agent like he was with Cadmus.

[Masterff]

He should be a mix of the funny hero who makes fun of his opponents, and a field agent like he was with Cadmus.

Yes thats what I am talking about:
If you take the "old" Conner from Reign of Supermen and his first Series in Hawaii and the Rebirth Conner, mix it with powerful TTK and his Kryptonian Powers and LET HIM WIN HIS FIGHTS (unlike the YJ TV Series Conner) he would be like DC Spider-Man...

A funny,nice to read, good-hearted, sarcastic young Super-Hero...

[MajorHoy]

. . . I am talking about the early Kon El (when he first appeared etc.)

Again, when he first appeared, he wasn't the start of a potential new franchise: he began as a possible replacement Superman.
Spider-Man didn't begin as a "replacement hero".

The EARLY Kon El had a LOT!!! of common to Spider-Man...

He was funny,cocky,saracastic,made sarcastic comments etc.

MUCH more than Nightwing...

Trust me, a character who was "funny,cocky,saracastic,made sarcastic comments etc." is not exactly unique. Spider-Man may have been a character who wasn't a GrimDark hero, but GrimDark heroes weren't a dime-a-dozen back in the 1960s when Spider-Man was created.

. . . If you look back at the old Kon El, like his characterization above, how he was displayed early, then you could say that he and Peter had a lot in common, like being sarcastic,making fun of the enemies etc.

So if you characterize him more than he was early as he first showed up during Reign of the Supermen etc., give him a town of his own and give him some cool villains, he could reach a good level and become quite successfull...

I took Spider-Man, because the early Kon El reminds me a lot of him....

Oh, how much early Spider-Man are we talking?
Are we talking a secret identity as a high school nerd/genius who didn't originally fit in with the "popular" crowd? Are we talking a character who was being looked after by aging relatives, and who unintentionally was responsible for circumstances that resulted in the DEATH of one of those caretakers?
Where's Kon-El's early ANGST and constant self-doubt?!?

Dude, the two weren't really anything alike beyond the fact that they weren't full-fledged adults.

[Talon1load]

I’m ready for Kon to take a larger role in the DCU. I loved young cocky Kon but I thought his angst was earned as well when he found out more about his origins. Young Justice and Superboy Kon was so much fun. I’d love for him to come back. I don’t like to see Kon, Tim, and Jason Todd all take more prominent roles in the DCU. I miss legacy being a big part of DC. That required a certain amount of love and respect for someone to take up the mantel of someone else. I loved the journey that Kon was on to eventually becoming worthy of Superman’s legacy. Anyway, that was a lot of rambling. Lol. I just want more Kon El in my life.

[Masterff]

Again, when he first appeared, he wasn't the start of a potential new franchise: he began as a possible replacement Superman.
Spider-Man didn't begin as a "replacement hero".

Trust me, a character who was "funny,cocky,saracastic,made sarcastic comments etc." is not exactly unique. Spider-Man may have been a character who wasn't a GrimDark hero, but GrimDark heroes weren't a dime-a-dozen back in the 1960s when Spider-Man was created.

Oh, how much early Spider-Man are we talking?
Are we talking a secret identity as a high school nerd/genius who didn't originally fit in with the "popular" crowd? Are we talking a character who was being looked after by aging relatives, and who unintentionally was responsible for circumstances that resulted in the DEATH of one of those caretakers?
Where's Kon-El's early ANGST and constant self-doubt?!?

Dude, the two weren't really anything alike beyond the fact that they weren't full-fledged adults.

Thats ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!!

1. Yes he began as Replacement Hero, BUT!! he showed that he was completely different than Clark in his look,character,powers etc.
It also doesnt matter if he is a replacement or not....

2. Kon El was unintentionally responsible that Lois was NEARLY killed and the PILOT of the Helicopter of the Daily Planet was killed as the villains shot with their weapons on him...
You could also take TANA MOON!!!! she was killed because of her connection with Superboy...

3. Its also not extremely important if he didnt fit in the popular crowd, he shouldnt be a 1:1 Spider-Man....I was more talking about his personality:
Making fun of his opponents, being sarcastic,being a rebel....and if you take that the 2 have a lot in common....


BUT!!! what you also didnt understand is that I took Spider-Man only as EXAMPLE!!

I took Spider-Man as example, because they were in the same age-class, they were Super-Heroes who werent dark etc. but had fun with their powers, who were sarcastic,cocky etc.


I took Spider-Man as example, because I ALWAYS thougt that if DC would have put work in the Kon-El franchise it could also become successful and Kon El could be DC's Version of Spider-Man..

Like in a town of his own,becoming the old sarcastic,funny Kon El (without being to much a clown like he was sometimes in YJ) and with some Villains designed for him, he could have become realy successful, but TT with Smallville,Kon El's new character pushed him in another direction and then also his NEW52 reconnection....

[Konja7]

Thats ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!!

1. Yes he began as Replacement Hero, BUT!! he showed that he was completely different than Clark in his look,character,powers etc.
It also doesnt matter if he is a replacement or not....

2. Kon El was unintentionally responsible that Lois was NEARLY killed and the PILOT of the Helicopter of the Daily Planet was killed as the villains shot with their weapons on him...
You could also take TANA MOON!!!! she was killed because of her connection with Superboy...

3. Its also not extremely important if he didnt fit in the popular crowd, he shouldnt be a 1:1 Spider-Man....I was more talking about his personality:
Making fun of his opponents, being sarcastic,being a rebel....and if you take that the 2 have a lot in common....


BUT!!! what you also didnt understand is that I took Spider-Man only as EXAMPLE!!

I took Spider-Man as example, because they were in the same age-class, they were Super-Heroes who werent dark etc. but had fun with their powers, who were sarcastic,cocky etc.


I took Spider-Man as example, because I ALWAYS thougt that if DC would have put work in the Kon-El franchise it could also become successful and Kon El could be DC's Version of Spider-Man..

Like in a town of his own,becoming the old sarcastic,funny Kon El (without being to much a clown like he was sometimes in YJ) and with some Villains designed for him, he could have become realy successful, but TT with Smallville,Kon El's new character pushed him in another direction and then also his NEW52 reconnection....

I really like Conner (although I like more Conner in TT with Smallville), but your idea wouldn't necessary be a hit or success. Kessel Kon-El wasn't so popular at the end of his run either.

Dick Grayson fulfills most of what you said (and he has a lot more history than Conner), but he is still a pretty relegated character.

Nowadays, it is pretty difficult that a character connected to bigger name can become really independent.

[DrNewGod]

NO....

You talk about JOHNS TT KON-EL

I am talking about the early Kon El (when he first appeared etc.)

http://i.imgur.com/nFvvMUZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/K8f2OyK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aLg5eId.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gxQVUoG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2Nt9QBF.jpg

Also think back at early Superboy when he was taking a surfboard to catch the gang on Hawaii
https://pheelyks.tumblr.com/post/160...t-superboy-can

The EARLY Kon El had a LOT!!! of common to Spider-Man...

He was funny,cocky,saracastic,made sarcastic comments etc.

MUCH more than Nightwing...

and I also remind back at the Amalgan Version of Spider-Man and Superboy..



I wouldnt say that...

If you look back at the old Kon El, like his characterization above, how he was displayed early, then you could say that he and Peter had a lot in common, like being sarcastic,making fun of the enemies etc.

So if you characterize him more than he was early as he first showed up during Reign of the Supermen etc., give him a town of his own and give him some cool villains, he could reach a good level and become quite successfull...

I took Spider-Man, because the early Kon El reminds me a lot of him....

The short answer is: they tried. Immediately-Post-Return-Of-Superman Superboy got his own title, and it had real talent on it. It sold well for quite some time. However, at the end of the day, he wasn't Superman, nor lacking a relatable origin, could he be the Spider-Man analog you desire.

The key to Spider-Man's popularity has never been his abilities, or his smart mouth (at least, not in isolation). It's always been the ease with which we're able to see ourselves as him, or at least see Spider-Man as an aspirational version of ourselves. Peter Parker has all of an ordinary person's ordinary troubles, and finds doing the right thing hard, and often unrewarding. Just like the rest of us.

Being a clone cooked up by Cadmus creates a separation from the rest of us that prevents Superboy from capturing Spider-Man's magic. If there's a genuinely close analog to Spider-Man in pop-culture, it's probably Buffy The Vampire-Slayer.

[Masterff]

The short answer is: they tried. Immediately-Post-Return-Of-Superman Superboy got his own title, and it had real talent on it. It sold well for quite some time. However, at the end of the day, he wasn't Superman, nor lacking a relatable origin, could he be the Spider-Man analog you desire.

The key to Spider-Man's popularity has never been his abilities, or his smart mouth (at least, not in isolation). It's always been the ease with which we're able to see ourselves as him, or at least see Spider-Man as an aspirational version of ourselves. Peter Parker has all of an ordinary person's ordinary troubles, and finds doing the right thing hard, and often unrewarding. Just like the rest of us.

Being a clone cooked up by Cadmus creates a separation from the rest of us that prevents Superboy from capturing Spider-Man's magic. If there's a genuinely close analog to Spider-Man in pop-culture, it's probably Buffy The Vampire-Slayer.

Superboy had two titles:
-First the one in Hawaii, which I liked...
-then after Teen Titans as he returned to Smallville which I ABSOLUTELY didnt like....


You leave here some key points out:

1. Villains: Superboy Title NEVER had such iconic, cool, recognisable Villains like Batman with Joker,Clayface,Man-Bat,Black Mask,Scarecrow.....Spider-Man with his villains etc.
Having such Villains is also a NECCESSARY Key Point to the popularity of a Hero, without Joker and the others Batman would never have been such a success...
Knockout was the only remarkable next to King Shark (who is more a Flash Villain)

2. Superboy was always put into extremas:
-first he bragged,was always hyperactive etc.
-then for a while during Young Justice he was pretty cool and well rounded, BUT I didnt like the look
-then he became to extremely funny almost childish (with the Bag over his head as Batman....he was to childish and annyoging)
-then he was informed that he is a clone of Lex and became angsty etc. and was also rebelious in school etc. (TT Run)
-then as he returned to Smallville he was EXTREMELY quiet,almost shy and quite boring... (last Solo-Run)

3. He was also to extreme in his life (which you also said above)
-first he was young and alone with his manager in Hawaii etc.
-then he went to school, but didnt fit into and also DIDNT want to fit into...

4. They always gave him a new Look
his costume,body size,hair cut etc. changed DRAMATICALLY over the years and YJ,TT,his Solo Runs etc.

So if they would get him a town of his own, remarkable and cool villains, give him a character who is more well balanced (like he seems to be now) and try to insert him in a normal public life he has a very very good chance to become successful...

[theoneandonly]

I certainly can see where you are coming from but ultimately the narrative choices for Kon tended to retcon him a lot clone/derivative/hybrid. there was even a bit of the Peter pan with him stuck being at a certain age which made him a fluid character unlike Spider Man who was bitten by a spider and fullstop. the subsequent retcons in his case added to the lore quite a bit without changing him too radically unlike Kon. there's also the image Spider Man has of being a loser in the heroes community in universe though so.e do respect him more than others whereas whatever you want to say about Kon he was never regarded as a unnecessary complication whenever he joined the fray unlike bart who was treated more of a nuisance.

[LordMikel]

Hello,

one question which I ABSOLUTELY DONT UNDERSTAND:

I look at Marvels Spider-Man and he is so popular, well liked etc.
I dont understand why DC didnt transform Conner in DC's Spider-Man.


I mean it would be simple:
Dont use the completely clown Version of Conner, make him more serious, but still a rebel, like the Rebirth Version.
I never understood why DC was using such extreme Version of Conner: 1. he was to extreme funny, childish then 2. during TT he became angsty and passive...
For some time like in the Black Zero Story he seemed to be welcome by Batman,Wonder Woman etc. but then later he became more childish and Batman for example began to look down on him etc.

Use the Rebirth Look, make him serious, but still funny,sarcastic,rebelious, give him a town of his own, give him his own Villains (who are also able to fight against Superman, not Clowns like Side-Arm or so), let him also be a hero and ally in Superman,Wonder Woman,Batmans Eyes...

I hope Rebirth will deal better with him and dont transform him into one of the 2 extremas listed above...


I mean I REALLY LIKED him TT and I LOVED that he became a hero and a legend of his own and he was able to fight against Superboy Prime, BUT!! he also lost some of his personality there...

I don't get what you mean.

He starred in Superboy for 102 issues.
He starred in young Justice for 56 issues.

He has a high following. Is now being reintroduced in the new Young Justice.

So yes, DC has used him a lot.

[Robanker]

Hello,

one question which I ABSOLUTELY DONT UNDERSTAND:

I look at Marvels Spider-Man and he is so popular, well liked etc.
I dont understand why DC didnt transform Conner in DC's Spider-Man.


I mean it would be simple:
Dont use the completely clown Version of Conner, make him more serious, but still a rebel, like the Rebirth Version.
I never understood why DC was using such extreme Version of Conner: 1. he was to extreme funny, childish then 2. during TT he became angsty and passive...
For some time like in the Black Zero Story he seemed to be welcome by Batman,Wonder Woman etc. but then later he became more childish and Batman for example began to look down on him etc.

Use the Rebirth Look, make him serious, but still funny,sarcastic,rebelious, give him a town of his own, give him his own Villains (who are also able to fight against Superman, not Clowns like Side-Arm or so), let him also be a hero and ally in Superman,Wonder Woman,Batmans Eyes...

I hope Rebirth will deal better with him and dont transform him into one of the 2 extremas listed above...


I mean I REALLY LIKED him TT and I LOVED that he became a hero and a legend of his own and he was able to fight against Superboy Prime, BUT!! he also lost some of his personality there...

Dick Grayson is probably closer in personality to Peter (upbeat, can be angsty and brooding, trolls his enemies and has a sense of humor) while also an agility based hero. I think he makes for a better Spider-Man analgoue.

Trying to force an established character far outside their established characterisation just to ape the competition won't please anyone in the long run.

Moreover, Kon-El has historically not been the most popular sidekick or teen hero, so I don't know why DC would invest all those resources, time and soft sales trying to build him up instead of going with a Robin which would have a higher sales floor and ce

Ultimately, DC won't be able to make their own Spider-Man and have it be as successful. I'd personally prefer if they focused on telling great Kon-El stories.