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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member Eto's Avatar
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    Default Let's fix it: Heroes in Crisis

    One of the worst if not the worst DC event I've read.
    This event makes Identity Crisis a masterpiece.

    That being said, I won't say more because the purpose of this thread is, how would YOU fix this event.
    What would you do differently? (for the sake of this thread, don't hate on Didio and King (I loathe their work too but that's not the point of this thread)).

    Personally, I would have Superman help Wally, talk with him, bond with him, a real bro.
    There would still be a murderer, but it wouldn't be Wally.

    I wouldn't use the "similation" masks, because I don't think they should relive it over and over again.



    I would like to know, as impossible as it may seem, how you would fix it.
    Favourite DC heroes: Flash (Wally West), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Batman.

  2. #2
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    I'm just spit balling, but how about this?

    Lex Luthor or someone finds out about the existence of Sanctuary and threatens to tell the world. The heroes of the DCU debate what to do about this. Some feel that they should just be transparent and tell the public about it and own it, while others feels that it will paint them in a negative light and cause people to lose faith in them.

    The rest of the story is about the heroes coming to terms with how they are viewed by the general public and how a God-life perception can alienate them from people and make them afraid of them.

    Ultimately they decide to tell the public before Luthor or whomever can, and people's relationship to super heroes alters as they begin to see them as people that also deal with the same kinds of issues as them.

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Can't we just burn it with fire?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Can't we just burn it with fire?
    Seconded. Had to add more characters so that I could just post that.

  5. #5
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    1. No VR or AI at Sanctuary. Its operated by Martian Manhunter, other heroes with psychic abilities(the only ones I can think of right now are Lilith and Ms. Martian) and trained psychiatrists.

    2. Sanctuary exists to help traumatized heroes and rehabilitate villains.

    3. Instead of an overarching plot, each issue would focus on a different character(patient or staff). If there has to be an overarching plot, I don't know what it would be. All I know is that it wouldn't involve any of the crap that happened during HiC.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Just make it an oversived one shot with no murder mystery and let King just tell his PTSD story. Maybe just set it out of countinuty and give it away on free comic book day.

  7. #7
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Can't we just burn it with fire?
    Is it enough, I wonder?
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

    To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!

  8. #8
    Fantastic Member Eto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blunt_eastwood View Post
    I'm just spit balling, but how about this?

    Lex Luthor or someone finds out about the existence of Sanctuary and threatens to tell the world. The heroes of the DCU debate what to do about this. Some feel that they should just be transparent and tell the public about it and own it, while others feels that it will paint them in a negative light and cause people to lose faith in them.

    The rest of the story is about the heroes coming to terms with how they are viewed by the general public and how a God-life perception can alienate them from people and make them afraid of them.

    Ultimately they decide to tell the public before Luthor or whomever can, and people's relationship to super heroes alters as they begin to see them as people that also deal with the same kinds of issues as them.
    Interesting. Much better than we’ve actually got.
    Favourite DC heroes: Flash (Wally West), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Batman.

  9. #9
    Fantastic Member Eto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Can't we just burn it with fire?
    Yes, but for the sake of this thread? No.
    Favourite DC heroes: Flash (Wally West), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Batman.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member Eto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Is it enough, I wonder?
    Nope, gotta milk it till it’s dry. Just like DC’s love for Tom King.
    Favourite DC heroes: Flash (Wally West), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Batman.

  11. #11
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    The whole thing could have been avoided if Sanctuary had a human person there that could just hug Wally and tell him he wasn't alone. Hell even just a support group would have helped. Which seems like a huge oversight with this whole Sanctuary idea.

  12. #12
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    Ah, but have you considered that Wally is actually just a horrible broken monster and everything else was fine and perfectly run because otherwise other characters would have to shoulder blame?

    That's kind of what I love. Well, not love, but I'm relishing the damn irony of King talking all this nonsense about how good Wally is while, on the page, he absolves everyone but Wally and heaps every terrible thing onto him in spite of his own horrible ideas he can't reconcile.

    By the by there is no fixing Heroes in Crisis. Tom King's original idea was this mass murder story, frameup, and a hero going bad. Someone was always going to be in Wally's shoes. Wally's wearing those shoes because a particular man chose him and that particular man knows exactly what he was doing. If you want a different story from that then it just isn't Heroes In Crisis. HiC was never even advertised as anything differently, really, which is why I was railing it from the start.

    What you guys seem to want is a Sanctuary prequel that would've established things long before HiC.
    Last edited by Dred; 06-02-2019 at 03:36 PM.

  13. #13
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    First off screw the AI and murder mystery. All the dead heroes is absolutely unnecessary but I will keep the simulation room. These elements are thrown out in this version, we are going to focus on the initial idea of heroes dealing with their trauma. This means a lot of characters sitting around and talking like the pretty pointless pages we got in King's version but this time they will talk to others. Action will be limited to emotional outbursts, flashbacks, and simulation therapy. None of that Harley alluding the Trinity or beating Booster. I'll keep the same cast even though I can't stand Harley, I'll give a couple others like Oliie and Dinah a bit more to do as well. I'm keeping the same issue length, no real reason other than that's what they did so I'll use the same amount to do something better.

    We start on the Watchtower a month ago or something like that, the core roster of the JL sit at a round table in the middle of a discussion about then recent events of the Source Wall. The League has been pushing themselves and other heroes like the Titans, Outsiders, Terrifics, etc. too far and too thin straining themselves. Barry, Clark, and Diana push for some kind of relief effort to slow things and create a place for heroes unwind and talk about their issues. Batman is skeptical of course but promises to fund the Sanctuary project.

    We then see a wide array of heroes and robots working on the facility in a montage before having Superman give a speech to everyone about the toll of the never ending battle not just on society but on the self. We then cut to "present" day with Sanctuary operating like normal. This is where the story will get even more different, each issue will be a different vignette with loose threads connecting each other and the main thread of Sanctuary itself. For almost every issue I want to highlight different forms of therapy and coping, it's different for everyone and the story should reflect that. I feel that a more unorthodox style fits this kind of story and topic rather than what King and DC went for instead.

    Issue 1: Will focus on Booster Gold and will be a pseudo follow-up to the Gift. A lot of people hate that story so I think following it up with some perspective can make it become more enjoyable, I have my issues with it but I like the overall idea of what Booster was trying to do, even if it broke all sorts of things. Booster will talk about his failures in the future and how being a time traveling hero has different restrictions and freedoms that he struggles with. Blue Beetle is going to sit down with Booster as well and talk about their friendship and how it helps with being a superhero.

    Issue 2: Is a Harley and Ivy issue that will be a deep dive into not only their relationship but their struggle to turn to good. How the hero community has reacted to them, everyday realizations of what they have done to others. This is something that I feel is completely lacking for Harley, she feels like a vaguely defined villain turned hero because she's a hot clown girl that is easy to market, give more to her character to make the hero turn feel like a genuine character moment rather than a business decision. Seeing two villains transition to becoming heroes while being in a relationship is ripe for good drama and character stuff.

    Issue 3: This is gonna be a round table almost intervention like story for Batman with the JL. I feel like an issue like this could be a seriously iconic moment for DC that fans would bring up for years. All the crap Bruce has pulled and all the personal issues he has with other Leaguers comes blowing up into his face. We see everyone from Barry to Guy talk, scream, punch, cry, and laugh at Bruce. All these varying degrees of emotions will be thrown at Bruce and for the first time in a long time we will see Bruce get emotional and drop his guard with the JL. I feel like this could be a moment to bring the whole idea of Batgod back down to the realm of mortals

    Issue 4: The forgotten characters plus Wally and Roy. This is probably my favorite issue idea. I think seeing Wally and Roy here is important, to me it helps show that Wally and Roy may be/are popular in the real world but they don't see themselves above other heroes. Here we see most everyone who got murdered by Wally's meltdown in the original HiC. This is another roundtable issue but is more like an AA meeting. One thing I actually liked from the original story was Gnarrk's story. I would repurpose that when it was his turn to speak minus dying in the end. I'd have Protector talk about his drug abuse issues, Roy talks about how he already overcame his and will sponsor Protector to keep them both sober. Have Blue Jay struggle with how the world sees him or lack of seeing him. I want to give everyone at-least one moment in the issue. It's a lot to fit in but I think it can work. Wally would be the last to really speak, he would talk about his kids and Linda. How he lost not only his family but his reality too. The issue would end with Wally looking onward saying he will get his family back with the help of his fellow heroes like the ones with him today.

    Issue 5: Titans vs JL. This issue is going to be split into two parts. Part 1 is a fight scene of the Titans fighting the JL in the simulation room. This is going to be treated like one of those cathartic aggressive releases like the destruction rooms you can rent in the real world to break stuff in a save environment. The two teams will fight and let out their issues against the holographic counterparts until it finishes. Part 2 is The Titans realizing they are holding in all this resentment for the League and go to confront them. In stark contrast to Abnett's version of the two teams talking the Titans establish themselves as equals rather than subservient lesser versions. They have been working hard for years to make their mentors proud and want their respect without them controlling their lives. The JL apologizes for their actions and extend an olive branch a team-up story that spins-off into a mini or a small arc between the two teams.

    Issue 6: This is an issue that will focus on characters that have been brutalized or killed in the DCU. I'm thinking Hal, Babs, Harley, Jason Todd, Barry Allen, Ollie, and Ted Kord. This issue will be another simulation room story, the characters will walk through the events that they experienced. Each character's experience is shaped by how they remember it and felt during those moments. Seeing through their eyes is an important perspective in trauma and I really want to see how these character's would go about describing it, dealing with it and hearing comments from each other about it.

    Issue 7 & 8: Cosmic struggles on street level heroes and heroes with untold power dealing with personal struggles. This will be a back and forth between both types of heroes and how they deal with their opposite problems. This two parter I have the least work on but then again I'm writing the first things that come to me so not everything will be perfect. Street level heroes: Batman, Green Arrow, Nightwing, Batgirl, Black Canary, Robin(s), Manhunter, Question, Arsenal.
    Personal struggles on heroes with all the power. GL(s), Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Flash, Martian Manhunter, Power Girl, Firestorm.

    Issue 9: The final issue will be another speech from Superman to a massive crowd of heroes, highlighting the progress, the dedication and cooperation in Sanctuary. Saying that there will always be days where we lose or need help but that there will always be a tomorrow worth fighting for. Superman will conclude saying that Sanctuary has been a success for the superhero community and that it will be a main stay for all heroes of the DCU. The speech will end about half way through the final issue and the last pages of the book will be different heroes thoughts about Sanctuary while mingling and interacting in the crowd of others. I feel the ending should kind of linger as to make you feel like it's not over. Because it's not, mental health is a never ending battle that you will always have to fight against. Finding ways to release and cope is important wether it's through people or actions, that's the main idea I want to get across in this version of the story.

    Heroes in Crisis failed as a tale about the struggles of being a superhero, it treated it like a burden that will drag you down eventually. The mystery was nonsensical, characters acted wildly out of character or were used for meta nonsense and jokes, and most damning of all was the complete lack of care. Not just for Wally but for so many little characters who were just discarded like a crumpled up pieces of paper being thrown into a trashcan.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  14. #14
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    First off screw the AI and murder mystery. All the dead heroes is absolutely unnecessary but I will keep the simulation room. These elements are thrown out in this version, we are going to focus on the initial idea of heroes dealing with their trauma. This means a lot of characters sitting around and talking like the pretty pointless pages we got in King's version but this time they will talk to others. Action will be limited to emotional outbursts, flashbacks, and simulation therapy. None of that Harley alluding the Trinity or beating Booster. I'll keep the same cast even though I can't stand Harley, I'll give a couple others like Oliie and Dinah a bit more to do as well. I'm keeping the same issue length, no real reason other than that's what they did so I'll use the same amount to do something better.

    We start on the Watchtower a month ago or something like that, the core roster of the JL sit at a round table in the middle of a discussion about then recent events of the Source Wall. The League has been pushing themselves and other heroes like the Titans, Outsiders, Terrifics, etc. too far and too thin straining themselves. Barry, Clark, and Diana push for some kind of relief effort to slow things and create a place for heroes unwind and talk about their issues. Batman is skeptical of course but promises to fund the Sanctuary project.

    We then see a wide array of heroes and robots working on the facility in a montage before having Superman give a speech to everyone about the toll of the never ending battle not just on society but on the self. We then cut to "present" day with Sanctuary operating like normal. This is where the story will get even more different, each issue will be a different vignette with loose threads connecting each other and the main thread of Sanctuary itself. For almost every issue I want to highlight different forms of therapy and coping, it's different for everyone and the story should reflect that. I feel that a more unorthodox style fits this kind of story and topic rather than what King and DC went for instead.

    Issue 1: Will focus on Booster Gold and will be a pseudo follow-up to the Gift. A lot of people hate that story so I think following it up with some perspective can make it become more enjoyable, I have my issues with it but I like the overall idea of what Booster was trying to do, even if it broke all sorts of things. Booster will talk about his failures in the future and how being a time traveling hero has different restrictions and freedoms that he struggles with. Blue Beetle is going to sit down with Booster as well and talk about their friendship and how it helps with being a superhero.

    Issue 2: Is a Harley and Ivy issue that will be a deep dive into not only their relationship but their struggle to turn to good. How the hero community has reacted to them, everyday realizations of what they have done to others. This is something that I feel is completely lacking for Harley, she feels like a vaguely defined villain turned hero because she's a hot clown girl that is easy to market, give more to her character to make the hero turn feel like a genuine character moment rather than a business decision. Seeing two villains transition to becoming heroes while being in a relationship is ripe for good drama and character stuff.

    Issue 3: This is gonna be a round table almost intervention like story for Batman with the JL. I feel like an issue like this could be a seriously iconic moment for DC that fans would bring up for years. All the crap Bruce has pulled and all the personal issues he has with other Leaguers comes blowing up into his face. We see everyone from Barry to Guy talk, scream, punch, cry, and laugh at Bruce. All these varying degrees of emotions will be thrown at Bruce and for the first time in a long time we will see Bruce get emotional and drop his guard with the JL. I feel like this could be a moment to bring the whole idea of Batgod back down to the realm of mortals

    Issue 4: The forgotten characters plus Wally and Roy. This is probably my favorite issue idea. I think seeing Wally and Roy here is important, to me it helps show that Wally and Roy may be/are popular in the real world but they don't see themselves above other heroes. Here we see most everyone who got murdered by Wally's meltdown in the original HiC. This is another roundtable issue but is more like an AA meeting. One thing I actually liked from the original story was Gnarrk's story. I would repurpose that when it was his turn to speak minus dying in the end. I'd have Protector talk about his drug abuse issues, Roy talks about how he already overcame his and will sponsor Protector to keep them both sober. Have Blue Jay struggle with how the world sees him or lack of seeing him. I want to give everyone at-least one moment in the issue. It's a lot to fit in but I think it can work. Wally would be the last to really speak, he would talk about his kids and Linda. How he lost not only his family but his reality too. The issue would end with Wally looking onward saying he will get his family back with the help of his fellow heroes like the ones with him today.

    Issue 5: Titans vs JL. This issue is going to be split into two parts. Part 1 is a fight scene of the Titans fighting the JL in the simulation room. This is going to be treated like one of those cathartic aggressive releases like the destruction rooms you can rent in the real world to break stuff in a save environment. The two teams will fight and let out their issues against the holographic counterparts until it finishes. Part 2 is The Titans realizing they are holding in all this resentment for the League and go to confront them. In stark contrast to Abnett's version of the two teams talking the Titans establish themselves as equals rather than subservient lesser versions. They have been working hard for years to make their mentors proud and want their respect without them controlling their lives. The JL apologizes for their actions and extend an olive branch a team-up story that spins-off into a mini or a small arc between the two teams.

    Issue 6: This is an issue that will focus on characters that have been brutalized or killed in the DCU. I'm thinking Hal, Babs, Harley, Jason Todd, Barry Allen, Ollie, and Ted Kord. This issue will be another simulation room story, the characters will walk through the events that they experienced. Each character's experience is shaped by how they remember it and felt during those moments. Seeing through their eyes is an important perspective in trauma and I really want to see how these character's would go about describing it, dealing with it and hearing comments from each other about it.

    Issue 7 & 8: Cosmic struggles on street level heroes and heroes with untold power dealing with personal struggles. This will be a back and forth between both types of heroes and how they deal with their opposite problems. This two parter I have the least work on but then again I'm writing the first things that come to me so not everything will be perfect. Street level heroes: Batman, Green Arrow, Nightwing, Batgirl, Black Canary, Robin(s), Manhunter, Question, Arsenal.
    Personal struggles on heroes with all the power. GL(s), Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Flash, Martian Manhunter, Power Girl, Firestorm.

    Issue 9: The final issue will be another speech from Superman to a massive crowd of heroes, highlighting the progress, the dedication and cooperation in Sanctuary. Saying that there will always be days where we lose or need help but that there will always be a tomorrow worth fighting for. Superman will conclude saying that Sanctuary has been a success for the superhero community and that it will be a main stay for all heroes of the DCU. The speech will end about half way through the final issue and the last pages of the book will be different heroes thoughts about Sanctuary while mingling and interacting in the crowd of others. I feel the ending should kind of linger as to make you feel like it's not over. Because it's not, mental health is a never ending battle that you will always have to fight against. Finding ways to release and cope is important wether it's through people or actions, that's the main idea I want to get across in this version of the story.

    Heroes in Crisis failed as a tale about the struggles of being a superhero, it treated it like a burden that will drag you down eventually. The mystery was nonsensical, characters acted wildly out of character or were used for meta nonsense and jokes, and most damning of all was the complete lack of care. Not just for Wally but for so many little characters who were just discarded like a crumpled up pieces of paper being thrown into a trashcan.
    Also forgot to add this video as well, this level of care and character work is what I was hoping HiC would be.

    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  15. #15
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