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  1. #1
    Spectacular Member Nero's Avatar
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    Default The current status of the Spider-Man rogues gallery

    At one point, Spider-Man had the best rogues gallery of any Marvel superhero. But can that really be said now? As of right now....

    Norman Osborn/Green Goblin is out of commission.
    Dr. Octopus is no longer a villain.
    Venom/Eddie Brock is still an anti hero.
    The original Kraven is dead again.
    Wilson Fisk is more of a Daredevil villain than Spider-Man villain.
    Hobgoblin's no longer perceived as a big deal than he once was.


    The Vulture seems to kinda be back in the swing of things but he was never regarded as one of Spider-Man's top villains. So who's left to really fill the void?

  2. #2

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    The bad guys tend to be taken out of commission in most of their stories, so we're going to see Norman Osborn again. The Lizard's going to do something villainous at some point.

    There's still the Chameleon, Sandman, Mysterio, the Scorpion, the Rhino, the Shocker, and more recent bad guys. It could be a good thing when the B-listers have a chance to shine, and some new characters make their debuts.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nero View Post
    At one point, Spider-Man had the best rogues gallery of any Marvel superhero. But can that really be said now? As of right now....

    Norman Osborn/Green Goblin is out of commission.
    Dr. Octopus is no longer a villain.
    Venom/Eddie Brock is still an anti hero.
    The original Kraven is dead again.
    Wilson Fisk is more of a Daredevil villain than Spider-Man villain.
    Hobgoblin's no longer perceived as a big deal than he once was.


    The Vulture seems to kinda be back in the swing of things but he was never regarded as one of Spider-Man's top villains. So who's left to really fill the void?
    - Norman Osborn/Green Goblin: He's down, not out. He will eventually attack when we less expect. Besides, Superior Spider-Junk is going to have his own battle against a Norman Osborn. (The "Spider-Norman" from Spider-Geddon).
    - Doc Ock is more like balancing in the line. I'm not seeing him as a hero, and he still have villain tendencies. Anyway, we could have another one to take his role, like Lady Octopus.
    - Venom/Eddie Brock evolved beyond Spider-Man's shadow; but still, Carnage could take Venom's place in the symbiotes' category.
    - Kraven might be dead now, but these guys never stay dead for long. Besides, he still have a "son" who could take his place.
    - Wilsong Fisk, yeah, he's become more of a Daredevil's villain than a Spider-Man's villain in the last decades.
    - HobGoblin was always more like a rip-off of the Green Goblin, but he's still a threat; only he's always more focused on money than in destroying Spider-Man personally.

    Finally, you are forgetting about Miles Warren, the Jackal. Since he can endlessly clone himself, he can return at any time.

    Almost forgot, there's also the Smythe family and the Spider-Slayers. They are basically born to destroy Spider-Man. They are like the Hulkbusters for Hulk, or the Sentinels for the X-Men.
    Last edited by Ursalink; 06-02-2019 at 03:42 PM.

  4. #4
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Vulture has always been A-List, but he's prime material to be promoted to big boss, especially after his long time out of the book. Also, if they go ahead with all the villains being loyal to him, that was Otto's most significant contribution to the rogues, so you don't need him.

    Norman will definitely be back, but using him more sparingly is better than having him be active all the time up to shenanigans. Peter/Norman stories should each be significant encounters, and when a new writer comes onto a book they shouldn't/don't just immediately carry on with more of what the last guy did.

    Kingpin is a Spider-Man villain, and he hasn't been much of one in a while, but his new position as mayor makes him much more important to New York and by extension Spider-Man. So it would be a shame to not just tell stories about what he's doing with both Spider-Man and Daredevil.

    Resurrected Kraven didn't really even qualify as a Spider-Man villain, and now we have a Kraven with a strong motivation to be one. So they can introduce that hunter element back to the book. By being new, he is also fresh.

    Venom is his own franchise and Eddie is finally his own fleshed-out character, he and Spider-Man do not need each other and occupy different corners of Marvel now. We even now have another character who knows Peter's ID and is getting too close for comfort, and he's more powerful and twisted than Venom already.

    Hobgoblin has fallen off, but I'd like for Nick to get to him, just for the dialogue.

    Electro wasn't mentioned, so the whole replacement thing seems to be going well.

    Centipede is the hot new big bad, and judging by Spencer's last big Marvel run, he will be a very good addition.

    So the rogues gallery is still as good as it usually is, but with a lot of old classics getting their dust shaken off. But the real reason it's still good is that ASM continues to not just play the hits again and instead opts to experiment and let other books eat some of the food.
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  5. #5

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    a lot more new villains need to be created.
    stop turning villains into good guys.

  6. #6
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Vulture has always been A-List, but he's prime material to be promoted to big boss, especially after his long time out of the book. Also, if they go ahead with all the villains being loyal to him, that was Otto's most significant contribution to the rogues, so you don't need him.
    Was that really an Otto thing? That was only really when he formed the Sinister Six but it's not like he had the Supervillain community at his beck and call. It isn't like how Spectacular handled him as the Master Planner.
    Norman will definitely be back, but using him more sparingly is better than having him be active all the time up to shenanigans. Peter/Norman stories should each be significant encounters, and when a new writer comes onto a book they shouldn't/don't just immediately carry on with more of what the last guy did.
    I don't disagree.
    Kingpin is a Spider-Man villain, and he hasn't been much of one in a while, but his new position as mayor makes him much more important to New York and by extension Spider-Man. So it would be a shame to not just tell stories about what he's doing with both Spider-Man and Daredevil.
    They made good use of him in Old Man Logan.
    Resurrected Kraven didn't really even qualify as a Spider-Man villain, and now we have a Kraven with a strong motivation to be one. So they can introduce that hunter element back to the book. By being new, he is also fresh.
    It's still kind of funny that Kraven was brought back but then did barely nothing in the Spider-Man books, instead becoming a Marvel Universe villain. I know it's because Slott didn't want to use him because of KLH, and Spencer killed him off again, but it's just funny how that post-resurecction was handled.

    Does being new automatically make him "fresh?" Any more then it did for the other Kraven successors?
    Venom is his own franchise and Eddie is finally his own fleshed-out character, he and Spider-Man do not need each other and occupy different corners of Marvel now. We even now have another character who knows Peter's ID and is getting too close for comfort, and he's more powerful and twisted than Venom already.
    Doc Ock ?

    Maybe I need to read more Cates. I'm just not crazy about his Brock. The edge and menace is just missing whenever he's not Venom or swearing vengeance against Spider-Man.
    Hobgoblin has fallen off, but I'd like for Nick to get to him, just for the dialogue.
    Kingsley would probably the Spider-Man Rogue Spencer would be the best fit for.
    Electro wasn't mentioned, so the whole replacement thing seems to be going well.
    Electro was never the "Big Bad" type, which this thread seems to be main concerned about, and that's even more true with Frye.

  7. #7
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    I think uniting all the villains has kinda become one of Otto's most iconic plays even though the Sinister Six was gone for several years. I think someone needs to have that kind of role.

    New Final Kraven The Extreme is already better than Grim Hunter and the other guy because they looked dorky and he looks cool.
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  8. #8
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    I think uniting all the villains has kinda become one of Otto's most iconic plays even though the Sinister Six was gone for several years. I think someone needs to have that kind of role.
    I guess, but I think conceptually the Sinister Six is a bit different. But that might just be me.
    New Final Kraven The Extreme is already better than Grim Hunter and the other guy because they looked dorky and he looks cool.
    Well, sometimes a cool visual is all it takes .

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    No Octopus? No Green Goblin? Venom as an antihero? Kraven' son? A LACKING HOBGOBLIN!? IS THIS THE CLONE SAGA AGAIN!!!?

    But seriously, I think the rogue gallery as it's now is pretty cool. There're a lot of "toys" to play with at the convenience of the writer. Green Goblin is just waiting to come out when an event is needed, meanwhile, I'm all in for a story with Hobgoblin. I like what Slott did with Kingsley, but let's twist the concept a little more, something really interesting can come from it that gives his glory back to old Hobby.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  10. #10
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    We'll see what happens.

    But anyways, we all know nowadays, and it's been that for years, that every year only has two or three four-six issue storylines. Just pick two or three strong enough ones, or re-energize one to be a strong enough one, such as a few years back there was that multi-issue arc on Electro, powerhouse but with weak ambitions, and Black Cat, whose temporary return to major league villainy was traditionally unexpected and surprising.

    Or, rehaul one whose not been used in a while, or thought dead, or was dead, or legacy up a dead character. Big Man was an example, for introducing his son, bitter and blaming Jameson for his father's death.

    For ideas of re-using someone, anyone from the Spider-Man toy box, how about a new Hypno-Hustler story? Or Swarm? Or Looter? Or how about a new Slyde, to annoy Spidey up? Or, maybe even, despite being forgotten for over two decades, Styx and Stone? Unexpected comebacks had happened before, with F.A.C.A.D.E. and Iguana!

    And, this is the Marvel, not DC, where "This guy is Flash's, not Batman's!". In Marvel, anyone can be used in any title. Example, another Spider-Man vs Wrecking Crew knockdown brawl rampage-fest could be awesome. Or the Circus of Crime! They've always been fun when wittingly or unwittingly reeling Spidey in against them! Mister Hyde! Titania! Blizzard! Water Wizard!
    Last edited by ngroove; 06-02-2019 at 09:49 PM.

  11. #11
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Personally I give Superior 3-4 more years until Otto becomes Doctor Octopus again, but if Marvel wants the concept to have more staying power they'll probably find someway to have their cake and eat it too.

    Within 8 years I expect writers will do at least one Spider-Man vs. Venom story.

    And this is all taking the comics into account. I expect for the most part media adaptions will still fall into portraying both of them as villains.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Personally I give Superior 3-4 more years until Otto becomes Doctor Octopus again, but if Marvel wants the concept to have more staying power they'll probably find someway to have their cake and eat it too.

    Within 8 years I expect writers will do at least one Spider-Man vs. Venom story.

    And this is all taking the comics into account. I expect for the most part media adaptions will still fall into portraying both of them as villains.
    Some villains whom previously redeemed themselves I would have preferred they remained redeemed rather than regressed under that "sooner or later, status quo under next writer" thing. Sandman for instance, pre-John Byrne.

    Vermin was another, whose complete saga I would say should have been under J.M. DeMatteis, who left him Edward Whelan, happily working out of his Vermin-cravings by working in Ravencroft. But nooooo, other writers mutated him back and again, and again, and again, all one-dimensionalized since.

  13. #13

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    Dr. Octopus being taken out of commission is a major problem, one I expect will be corrected by the time the third Sony-Marvel Spidey movie and the Sinister Six show up. Eventually he's gonna have to go back to the character he was intended by his co-creators as this thug scientist unworthy and undeserving of depth. You can't do a satisfying Spider-Man story with a sympathetic Ock. My guess is that it will happen sooner rather than later. Right now, there's this second series with Christos Gage writing Superior. Eventually that will wrap up. And when that happens, Ock's gonna default back to who he was.

    But in any case, Spider-Man's major villains being taken out of commission is a blessing in disguise, since it suits Nick Spencer's strengths. Nick Spencer loves small-time crooks, B and C list villains and making you care for them and writing good stories with them. A major arc tying in with Boomerang and the Superior Foes prolly won't be in the offing had there been major villains.

    And I think expanding the lower-tier villains and rogues is the way forward.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    osborn ain’t coming back, you guys are high
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  15. #15
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Bucky ain't ever coming back either
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