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  1. #151
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Fact time! Superior was always going to end around TASM2 for the relaunch. That was always the plan. The change was that Otto was going to lead Spider-Verse, then Alonso at the last minute felt it should be for Peter, so they replaced it with the 2099 story that introduced the mechanics for getting Otto in Spider-Verse and the Venom arc. The ending of the Venom arc revealing that Peter's ghost has returned was going to be at the end of the original Spider-Verse. The beat was going to be there because the beat had to be there because Superior was about to end!

    Superior was planned from beginning to end, and everyone knew it was going to end. The idea that started arguments was Slott telling other writers that Otto was Spider-Man for a year and a half, they could not write Peter, and those arguments ended when books with Otto as a guest started selling better. The two Spider-Verse lead-in issues of Superior only existed because Marvel wanted the money to make up for a loss in a month. He didn't plan for them to exist. It is a story with a beginning, a middle, and an end. His writing style is architect, not gardener. And that doesn't magically change because Superior is cool.

    The point of the original run was that Otto did not know why Peter was superior until the very end, where he learned his lesson and then had to kill himself. His arrogance let the situation escalate and his cold, calculating mind could prevent him from doing the right thing. The version of Otto we have now did not learn that lesson, and that is the driving force behind all of the new Gage stuff. That he has to learn again.

    Peter did get bitten in the ass for taking PI in Slott's run, the PI literally turns into an OO, he has to destroy everything, the public hates him, and he's sleeping on a couch. I really like the idea that Peter, the supposed imperfect everyman superhero, wouldn't go on with the company and the success inadvertently granted to him by someone who tried to kill him and stole his life when no real person on this planet would screw themselves over like that. And the idea that Peter, the character who's entire career history is based on fraud and the abandonment of journalistic ethics and integrity justified solely by Jonah being an ass, would suddenly truly believe in honesty above all else and turn in the diploma for the sanctity of his dead enemy is more appropriate for Spider-Jesus of Earth-888.
    Basically, all of this. I will always support you dropping it like it's hot~



    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Executed by plot contrivance rather than actual character beat that felt earned, in other words.
    That's certainly your opinion!


    Having Peter Parker not be the main 616 Spider-Man for more than 1 real time year had never happened before.
    Did you think Ben Reilly was going to be Spider-Man forever too? It's okay, I choose to forget about Ben Reilly all the time.


    The thing to actually take away is that the story we have now is blatantly not ending on Slott's terms, and that alone invalidates Superior as a self-contained story. Slott didn't go in with a proper beginning-middle-end, he went in with a gimmick that he wanted to see how long he could sustain and build on. So judged on that, Superior is blatantly not a story building to its stated conclusion of Peter being the "better" Spider-Man, what it is is a story of how long Otto, and by extension Slott, can keep doing this.
    Proven to be incorrect, so will skip ahead...


    Chris Gage co-wrote the closing issues of Superior, including the one which had the moral triumph that Peter had. If Gage is going in another direction, that means even he didn't believe in that.
    That's just jumping to conclusions.
    The operative word you used above is "co-wrote". Cage took Slott's lead when co-writing on the original run, as it was still very much a plot that Slott had mapped out. It's a common way of how things work when a secondary writer is brought in to do some lifting. Gage now as a solo writer can and has been forging his own direction from there.
    edit: just saw this was also covered by Snoop, GG


    A story that Nick Spencer told, and not Dan Slott.
    You highlighted Peter becoming a corporate guy, so I was talking about Parker Industries. But as for Spencer, he was merely following threads set up.
    Last edited by Zeitgeist; 06-19-2019 at 06:45 AM.
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  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    Basically, all of this. I will always support you dropping it like it's hot~
    That post doesn't actually refute or contest what I have said. Since Slott intended Otto to be the lead in Spider-Verse and since Spider-Verse was the event set directly after Superior, that means that the end of Otto-as-Superior was to take place after that. That means Superior Spider-Man was rushed to an end to bring Peter back just in time to prep-up Spider-Verse.

    So saying that Superior doesn't end the way Slott intended to is a valid assessment. Whatever ending Slott planned for the end of Otto and return of Peter was intended originally to take place in an entirely different situation than what turned out.

    Did you think Ben Reilly was going to be Spider-Man forever too?
    If the editors could have gotten away with it, yeah. One of the intentional endings for the series was to have Ben Reilly ditch the blonde hair and call himself Peter and so on by the end. But that never stuck because having the Spider-Man of The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man not be the guy from AF#15 was something that Marvel when they finally reached that point, decided not to do.

    The operative word you used above is "co-wrote".
    That means that Gage was privy to Slott's actual intentions. Either he's misrepresenting it in his second series or he's actually representing it. Which is it?

    Cage
    His name is Christos Gage.

  3. #153
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    You know?, it wasn't shown in the comics, so I would like to see a "visual confirmation" that Morlun (just like his siblings) was "reborn" free of his father's hunger.

  4. #154
    Incredible Member Russ840's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    You know?, it wasn't shown in the comics, so I would like to see a "visual confirmation" that Morlun (just like his siblings) was "reborn" free of his father's hunger.
    I also want an update on Morlun. I hope he didn’t get ‘reborn’. I’d like Spencer to tackle him. Morlun would need to address things more carefully seen as he is no longer capable of returning from the dead.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ840 View Post
    I also want an update on Morlun. I hope he didn’t get ‘reborn’. I’d like Spencer to tackle him. Morlun would need to address things more carefully seen as he is no longer capable of returning from the dead.
    Sorry, pal. Although Morlun is definitely Spider-Man's most dangerous enemy ever, the problem with him is that he's too powerful to be used regularly. Therefore, even although it has left "its mark", he has to go.

  6. #156
    Incredible Member Russ840's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Sorry, pal. Although Morlun is definitely Spider-Man's most dangerous enemy ever, the problem with him is that he's too powerful to be used regularly. Therefore, even although it has left "its mark", he has to go.
    I agree to not use him regularly. I don’t agree that he has to go.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ840 View Post
    I agree to not use him regularly. I don’t agree that he has to go.
    One last encounter is in order, but after that, I think Morlun should be done. The potential return of Solus, Morlun's father, could be a bigger threat for Spider-Man.

  8. #158
    Incredible Member Russ840's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    One last encounter is in order, but after that, I think Morlun should be done. The potential return of Solus, Morlun's father, could be a bigger threat for Spider-Man.
    I personally am really not a fan of Morlun’s family and glad they are done. I think that’s because I am quite romantic about JMS’ run and am fond of Morlun.

  9. #159
    More eldritch than thou Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Spider-Man villains don't really entirely fit one pattern. People bring up that the villains are animal totems but that's only some. There's nothing animal about Sandman, Electro, Green Goblin, the Shocker, Mysterio. The usual common factor is that all of them are much older than Peter and there aren't any major villains who are Peter's age.
    That's a good point, though remember that there have been a ton of lesser villains with animal moteifs, such as the Kangaroo, the Gibbon, White Rabbit, the Fly, the various Tarantulas, the Thousand (who was terrifying and I think should come back somehow), the Swarm, the Beetle, and I think several others. So even if there are quite a few non-animal-based villains, ones that are have often been the default for writers wanting to create a new villain. Also, Venom could be seen as a representation of the cruel, predatory, remorseless nature of spiders, particularly that of extremely dangerous ones like widows and Australian funnel-webs, while Carnage could be seen, especially in lieu of recent arcs, like some kind of parasite, leech, tapeworm, or some of the deadly microorganisms seen on the show Monsters Inside Me.
    "I should describe my known nature as tripartite, my interests consisting of three parallel and disassociated groups; a) love of the strange and the fantastic, b) love of abstract truth and scientific logic, c) love of the ancient and the permanent. Sundry combinations of these strains will probably account for my...odd tastes, and eccentricities."

  10. #160
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ840 View Post
    I personally am really not a fan of Morlun’s family and glad they are done. I think that’s because I am quite romantic about JMS’ run and am fond of Morlun.
    I don't think many people really cared about the Inheritors to be honest.

  11. #161

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    the goblin is a trickster spirit; like the spider
    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I thought I couldn't love Steve Rogers any more than I already do, but here he is, eating pizza with a fork, just like I do (the only correct way to eat pizza

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think many people really cared about the Inheritors to be honest.
    I would’ve loved if they got legitimate backstory and weren’t just instance villains.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I would’ve loved if they got legitimate backstory and weren’t just instance villains.
    The Inheritors are legitimately the weakest parts of the Spider-Verse stories for me. There's barely anything to them other then "generic vampires who want to eat spiders."

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The Inheritors are legitimately the weakest parts of the Spider-Verse stories for me. There's barely anything to them other then "generic vampires who want to eat spiders."
    That’s why they should’ve gotten proper backstory. They even felt disconnected from the whole Spider-Totem elements. You could’ve replaced them with anyone.

  15. #165
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    That means that Gage was privy to Slott's actual intentions. Either he's misrepresenting it in his second series or he's actually representing it. Which is it?
    Option 3: he doesn't have to be beholden to it now and can do whatever he wants.


    His name is Christos Gage.
    Yeah, I know, because:

    Cage took Slott's lead when co-writing on the original run, as it was still very much a plot that Slott had mapped out. It's a common way of how things work when a secondary writer is brought in to do some lifting. Gage now as a solo writer can and has been forging his own direction from there.
    Typos do happen, but you can have a point for that if you really want it.
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