X-Men Monday #14 (06/03/19)

[Indigo_Lady]

I do not agree with JDW's reasoning about hatred of mutants going away if there were few of them. Prejudice is a response that is learned from parents and others around us. Just look how well small children of different races get along and play together if adults are not present to influence them. It's not simply a matter of statistics. That kind of learned hatred does NOT go away with the removal of the hated faction. It's not going to be immediate. It might take a generation or even more of a very small number of mutants to change attitudes.

[Tycon]

So the issue with Xavier's chosen leader, the leader for years, being the leader...

would drive the X-Men to literally try and kill each other.

Can't imagine why that doesn't work...

Whaaaat? Of course it makes sense for Logan who was basically Scott’s yes-man for the whole era, to suddenly flip on him because the New X-Men and Hope’s Lights were taught to defend themselves by any means necessary. Duh it makes sense that half the student body would have any reason to believe it’s safer back at the same school where so many of their friends got killed off.

[PsychoEFrost]

Whaaaat? Of course it makes sense for Logan who was basically Scott’s yes-man for the whole era, to suddenly flip on him because the New X-Men and Hope’s Lights were taught to defend themselves by any means necessary. Duh it makes sense that half the student body would have any reason to believe it’s safer back at the same school where so many of their friends got killed off.

Right, it TOTALLY makes sense that Cyclops = Hitler for using harsher tactics against enemies that have a renewed vigor and rage to see all of them exterminated. And are totally willing to kill non-combatants by any means required.

[Wiccan]

I really don't understand how some people can miss the point so much, like...? What JDW meant here is pretty obvious and makes complete sense. It's not about a bunch of crazy extremist murderous super-villains. It's about the normal civillians around the world being prejudiced against mutants. One of the big reasons people hate mutants is the idea that mutants are an evolution, that they're gonna replace them, and that anyone, their friends, their children, could end up being mutants. And the fact that they're inheretely dangerous.

Those people could still not really like mutants, but it would barely matter? It's not really a big issue anymore. There's only a couple of them left. They're not a possible danger to society anymore. They're not gonna replace humans anymore. You most likely don't have to ever worry about seeing, being, raising one yourself. There's not enough people to ~push a mutant agenda~ or anything like that. It's just not really a big enough social issue that a considerable amount of people around the world would still care about anymore.

[PsychoEFrost]

I really don't understand how some people can miss the point so much, like...? What JDW meant here is pretty obvious and makes complete sense. It's not about a bunch of crazy extremist murderous super-villains. It's about the normal civillians around the world being prejudiced against mutants. One of the big reasons people hate mutants but not Avengers and etc is the idea that mutants are an evolution, that they're gonna replace them, and that anyone, their friends, their children, could end up being mutants. Those people could still not really like mutants, but it would barely matter? It's not really a big issue anymore. There's only a couple of them left. It's just not really a huge social issue anymore that a considerable amount of people around the world would still care much about it.

It says a lot about humanity that when a minority is about to be fully exterminated the average person looks at that and goes "well, at least I don't have to worry about THAT anymore."

[Omega Alpha]

Right, it TOTALLY makes sense that Cyclops = Hitler for using harsher tactics against enemies that have a renewed vigor and rage to see all of them exterminated. And are totally willing to kill non-combatants by any means required.

Yes, and the guy that agreed with those tactics so much he continued with a kill squad even after Cyclops told him to disband would be the peace and love for the children guy. Ugh, Aaron...

[The tall man]

So the issue with Xavier's chosen leader, the leader for years, being the leader...

would drive the X-Men to literally try and kill each other.

Can't imagine why that doesn't work...

So because Xavier appointed Cyclops leader and he was leader for years he must always keep being the leader regardless that Storm was also leader for years. So basically your take is that Cyclops should always be default leader because of nostalgia. Funny that you're against nostalgia when it comes to Emma being seen as a villain. And the X-men didn't try to kill each other, Scott and Logan fought then the X-men decided who to follow. Some chose to stay and some chose to leave. Cyclops doesn't always have to be the leader.

[PsychoEFrost]

So because Xavier appointed Cyclops leader and he was leader for years he must always keep being the leader regardless that Storm was also leader for years. So basically your take is that Cyclops should always be default leader because of nostalgia. Funny that you're against nostalgia when it comes to Emma being seen as a villain. And the X-men didn't try to kill each other, Scott and Logan fought then the X-men decided who to follow. Some chose to stay and some chose to leave. Cyclops doesn't always have to be the leader.

No, my point is that fight over Schism made absolutely zero sense. Scott shouldn't be in charge because of nostalgia, but characters suddenly questioning him just to drive a story makes no narrative sense.

[MechaJeanix]

I agree with JDW about decimation. Morrison developed an interesting concept in his run about mutant subcultures and mutant sociology. This should have been developed more by subsequent writers. It is interesting that Morrison killed millions of mutants on Genosha but his story was also about the mutant population expanding. I hated when they went back to being a super minority (or even less than). Though being near extinction was the justification to take Scott Summers in a dark turn (with his kill squad - something JDW has said that he did not like and did not agree with).

[PsychoEFrost]

I agree with JDW about decimation. Morrison developed an interesting concept in his run about mutant subcultures and mutant sociology. This should have been developed more by subsequent writers. It is interesting that Morrison killed millions of mutants on Genosha but his story was also about the mutant population expanding. I hated when they went back to being a super minority (or even less than). Though being near extinction was the justification to take Scott Summers in a dark turn (with his kill squad - something JDW has said that he did not like and did not agree with).

The kill squad made narrative sense. Either you need a counter threat to the coming threat, or you render all of the enemies of that time toothless and moot. The kill squad was an example of escalation.

[The tall man]

No, my point is that fight over Schism made absolutely zero sense. Scott shouldn't be in charge because of nostalgia, but characters suddenly questioning him just to drive a story makes no narrative sense.

I said I would have preferred Storm over Logan and a different catalyst for the split but I still think the Schism had to. And the narrative was leading that way, Scott was making unilateral decisions, no one else had a voice except maybe Emma and Magneto and the X-men were being written against type. Far more than just Beast should have been pushing back against Scott. Just as Scott turned against Xavier's leadership some X-men turned against his.

[Glio]

I understand that JDW started working with the X-Men during Schism so maybe we should not read beyond that like "I have good memories because I participated in this".

[TheDeadSpace]

I said I would have preferred Storm over Logan and a different catalyst for the split but I still think the Schism had to. And the narrative was leading that way, Scott was making unilateral decisions, no one else had a voice except maybe Emma and Magneto and the X-men were being written against type. Far more than just Beast should have been pushing back against Scott. Just as Scott turned against Xavier's leadership some X-men turned against his.

Scott held a council and was willing to give a vote for the leader. If Scott was an actual dictator, like you're insinuating, he wouldn't have let Wolverine and the other X-men leave. Scott knew the consequences of his actions. He just preferred a better outcome for others than himself.

This topic really feels beaten to death at this point.

[Glio]

Scott held a council and was willing to give a vote for the leader. If Scott was an actual dictator, like you're insinuating, he wouldn't have let Wolverine and the other X-men leave. Scott knew the consequences of his actions. He just preferred a better outcome for others than himself.

This topic really feels beaten to death at this point.

Scott even offered to Logan to make an election, that Logan could have perfectly won.

[Omega Alpha]

Scott even offered to Logan to make an election, that Logan could have perfectly won.

Yeah, clearly the new Magneto, that guy. How evil.