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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDW
    To me, having mutantkind reduced to 198 people means they are not a minority anymore, they are a statistical zero. Hating and fearing mutants goes from being small-minded to nonsensical–you will never meet one, there are less than 200 in the world. It would be like hating left-handed people from Europe with the middle name Stefan–there are probably a few out there, but wasting your time thinking about them is silly.

    One, we have this innate fear of the unknown. Two, just because you get rid of the population does not mean you get rid of the sentiment. If anything, you can just spin a tall tale of how all mutants are inherently cannibals and no mutant would be there to object. It would perpetuate a cycle of bigotry. Even if you had triple digit amount of mutants, it's not hard to rationalize that people are going to fear how much power an individual mutant may have. The world isn't going to forget the likes of Magneto, Apocalypse, Selene, or any kid who lost control of their powers and maimed a bunch of people over night and will call for their destruction. It's not even a problem with a metaphor. It's a problem of ignoring the history of mutants.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDeadSpace View Post
    Scott held a council and was willing to give a vote for the leader. If Scott was an actual dictator, like you're insinuating, he wouldn't have let Wolverine and the other X-men leave. Scott knew the consequences of his actions. He just preferred a better outcome for others than himself.

    This topic really feels beaten to death at this point.
    Let them leave? Even if he was inclined to try and stop them from leaving he absolutely no power to stop them(physically).

  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    I know that it can be tricky to make comparisons between mutants and real situations, but there is a lot of racism against ethnic groups with which there is almost no contact.

    I will use an example, here in Spain during the dictatorship there was a strong anti-Semitic feeling from the government. And there were hardly any Jews in Spain, not even today. You can be all your life without knowing a single one but they were still using them as scapegoats.

  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Let them leave? Even if he was inclined to try and stop them from leaving he absolutely no power to stop them(physically).
    If he was a dictator, he would have tried to stop them by force. And yes, with people like Namor, Emma, Magneto and Hope there (not to mention himself), he did have the power to do so if he was evil. And again, he offered to hold an election to Wolverine, who's not a fan of democracy clearly.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Let them leave? Even if he was inclined to try and stop them from leaving he absolutely no power to stop them(physically).
    Regardless, he didn't try to actually keep them against their will. He still had the goal of protecting Wolverine and his school. Had Wolverine taken the offer to lead, he could have changed things, instead he turned it down. He didn't want Scott's job.
    "This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
    -Spider-man

    “Evil is evil...lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same."
    -Geralt of Rivia

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Scott even offered to Logan to make an election, that Logan could have perfectly won.
    Lets say that outcome occurred, election is held and Logan wins. Then he decides to have the X-men leave Utopia and head backnto Westchester to rebuild the school. Given Cyclops current survivalist mindset you see him accepting that decision and going along? I don't and his fans wouldn't want him to. It's easy to say Cyclops offered elections as a way of painting Logan and the Schism in a bad light, but if the writers had Logan say yes and actually win the Cyke fans would have lost their collective ****. Cyclops no longer leader, worst yet Logan is, back to Westchester; yeah guys would have loved that. The status quo couldn't remain the same, the X-men had to split.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Lets say that outcome occurred, election is held and Logan wins. Then he decides to have the X-men leave Utopia and head backnto Westchester to rebuild the school. Given Cyclops current survivalist mindset you see him accepting that decision and going along? I don't and his fans wouldn't want him to. It's easy to say Cyclops offered elections as a way of painting Logan and the Schism in a bad light, but if the writers had Logan say yes and actually win the Cyke fans would have lost their collective ****. Cyclops no longer leader, worst yet Logan is, back to Westchester; yeah guys would have loved that. The status quo couldn't remain the same, the X-men had to split.
    I would expect all X-fans except for Logan fans to be extremely upset in that scenario. Moving everyone back to the state that passed some of the strictest anti-mutant legislation in the country, and had very directly been attacked several times already would place every X-character in extreme danger for no reason. It would be putting the headquarters of GLAAD in Saudi Arabia. All that would do is make Logan appear to be spiteful to the point of psychosis.

  8. #68
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Lets say that outcome occurred, election is held and Logan wins. Then he decides to have the X-men leave Utopia and head backnto Westchester to rebuild the school. Given Cyclops current survivalist mindset you see him accepting that decision and going along? I don't and his fans wouldn't want him to. It's easy to say Cyclops offered elections as a way of painting Logan and the Schism in a bad light, but if the writers had Logan say yes and actually win the Cyke fans would have lost their collective ****. Cyclops no longer leader, worst yet Logan is, back to Westchester; yeah guys would have loved that. The status quo couldn't remain the same, the X-men had to split.
    It is interesting to discuss What Ifs, but the fact is that Logan said no to an election. And Scott would have accepted the election. He would have hated it but he would have accepted, because he thinks like a soldier and understands the importance of maintaining a clear chain of command.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    It is interesting to discuss What Ifs, but the fact is that Logan said no to an election. And Scott would have accepted the election. He would have hated it but he would have accepted, because he thinks like a soldier and understands the importance of maintaining a clear chain of command.
    Logan said no because he had no interest in an election or in remaining on Utopia. He had enough of Cyclops and wanted to leave, some agreed and left with him. Cyclops may see himself as a soldier but no one else does( except maybe Hope). The X-men were under no obligation to continue following Scott, screw chain of command. They wanted something different and left to pursue it. And no I don't think Cyclops would have accepted Wolverine's way of doing things. His mindset was 180 to what Logan wanted. Most likely he would have been the one to leave, taking Emma, Magneto, Namor and a few others with him. Given where both Scott and Logan were narratively they couldn't have coexisted.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Looking this way, Purifiers wanted to full exterminate mutants.

    Decimation was a bad event. Then we had ivX with mutants at the risk of going extinct and now what is goin gon on Uncanny. This theme exhausted
    This really puts it into perspective. We've had this theme recurring 3 times in the past 10+ years and twice in the what 5 years?

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Logan said no because he had no interest in an election or in remaining on Utopia. He had enough of Cyclops and wanted to leave, some agreed and left with him. Cyclops may see himself as a soldier but no one else does( except maybe Hope). The X-men were under no obligation to continue following Scott, screw chain of command. They wanted something different and left to pursue it. And no I don't think Cyclops would have accepted Wolverine's way of doing things. His mindset was 180 to what Logan wanted. Most likely he would have been the one to leave, taking Emma, Magneto, Namor and a few others with him. Given where both Scott and Logan were narratively they couldn't have coexisted.
    Of course, and that's why Scott even gave them a Blackbird so they could get away. Once they left, Cyclops had nothing against Wolverine or those who left, unlike Logan who could not be two days without talking bad about Scott. Logan was angry with Scott, Scott just disappointed with Logan.

    The strange thing was that Beast and Kitty did not make a second Schism when they discovered that Logan continued with X-Force. Beast even seemed more concerned about the fact that the Avengers discovered them than about the murders.
    Last edited by Glio; 06-03-2019 at 05:31 PM.

  12. #72
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Of course, and that's why Scott even gave them a Blackbird so they could get away. Once they left, Cyclops had nothing against Wolverine or those who left, unlike Logan who could not be two days without talking bad about Scott. Logan was angry with Scott, Scott just disappointed with Logan.

    The strange thing was that Beast and Kitty did not make a second Schism when they discovered that Logan continued with X-Force. Beast even seemed more concerned about the fact that the Avengers discovered them than about the murders.
    Yep, unless one is a hater, it's impossible to see Scott as the bad guy here.

  13. #73
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    The only bad thing about Decimation was if some of your favorite characters were depowered.
    For many here it must have been the case with Jubilee and Dani Moonstar, but I liked a few other minor characters that got depowered. Like Maverick who even had his own solo comic for a year in the late 90s, or Abyss, the brother of Nightcrawler, who is more well known for his Age of Apocalypse version. It's a bit strange how Nightcrawler hasn't seen his brother since Austen wrote the XMen, or how he hasnt been used in any of the comics Azazel has been used ever since.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Yep, unless one is a hater, it's impossible to see Scott as the bad guy here.
    Well if Scott had no issue with Logan and the others leaving and gave them a Blackbird to leave with then what's the problem? Why do some **** on the Schism storyline if Cyclops was fine with it? He continued on with his extinction team and Logan started his school, seems like everybody got what they wanted. Why were some so against Logan and company leaving clearly it had no adverse effect on what Cyclops was doing. Unless the issue was rebellion against Cyclops, that some questioned him instead of continuing to play good little soldiers.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Well if Scott had no issue with Logan and the others leaving and gave them a Blackbird to leave with then what's the problem? Why do some **** on the Schism storyline if Cyclops was fine with it? He continued on with his extinction team and Logan started his school, seems like everybody got what they wanted. Why were some so against Logan and company leaving clearly it had no adverse effect on what Cyclops was doing. Unless the issue was rebellion against Cyclops, that some questioned him instead of continuing to play good little soldiers.
    Because it was written partially by a die-hard Logan fan that made it as slanted as humanly possible? That it broke apart the X-Men for no better reason than a forced awful MLK/Malcolm X analogy that quickly turned into Jesus/Hitler. That it tried to paint Scott's actions in saving lives as some kind of self-righteous masturbatory exercise?

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