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  1. #16
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    I'd like an issue where someone actually calls out this idea of "The mythology of Gwen Stacy" like a friend of Gwens tells peter that she wasnt as nice as he remembers and that irs more the shock of losing her thats lead him to elevare her to the best kind of women.

  2. #17
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Some say Petey-O still has a shrine dedicated to good ol' Gwendoline in his closet to this day that he prays to every night.

    ♪ Gwen has died, Gwen has risen, Gwen's floating head of guilt shall come again ♪
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

  3. #18
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    I always thought of Gwen's death as the logical follow up to Uncle Ben's in terms of Peter's guilt. Ben's death was about Peter's inaction, and Gwen's death was about Peter's actions*. To me, Gwen wasn't Peter's one true love so much as his case study in why he should (in his mind) keep his friends at a distance, have superficial relationships, and even pursue a relationship (Black Cat) with someone who could hold their own against a villain. Remembering Gwen wasn't entirely about mythologizing her, it was about de-mythologizing himself as someone who could/should have a full life (again, in his own mind).

    There's obviously also some "road not traveled" stuff for Peter there, too - it's not unhealthy to think about "what would my life be like if [important person in my life] hadn't died?" in normal circumstances, and that's almost always rose-colored.

    *You can take this in a couple directions - if he'd decided Norman's incarceration was more important than Harry's feelings (or possible relapse), Gwen doesn't die; if he tells Gwen he's Spider-man and Norman is a nutbar, she might (very maybe) be able to keep from being kidnapped, Gwen doesn't die; if he tells Gwen and she rejects him, she's no longer a target, and Gwen doesn't die.
    Blue text denotes sarcasm

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member whiteshark's Avatar
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    Yep,Gwen Stacy is Peter Parker true love.Peter Parker loves Mary Jane,but if Gwen Stacy had not died it would be with Gwen that Peter would be and not with Mary Jane.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob/.schoonover View Post
    I always thought of Gwen's death as the logical follow up to Uncle Ben's in terms of Peter's guilt. Ben's death was about Peter's inaction, and Gwen's death was about Peter's actions*. To me, Gwen wasn't Peter's one true love so much as his case study in why he should (in his mind) keep his friends at a distance, have superficial relationships, and even pursue a relationship (Black Cat) with someone who could hold their own against a villain. Remembering Gwen wasn't entirely about mythologizing her, it was about de-mythologizing himself as someone who could/should have a full life (again, in his own mind).

    There's obviously also some "road not traveled" stuff for Peter there, too - it's not unhealthy to think about "what would my life be like if [important person in my life] hadn't died?" in normal circumstances, and that's almost always rose-colored.

    *You can take this in a couple directions - if he'd decided Norman's incarceration was more important than Harry's feelings (or possible relapse), Gwen doesn't die; if he tells Gwen he's Spider-man and Norman is a nutbar, she might (very maybe) be able to keep from being kidnapped, Gwen doesn't die; if he tells Gwen and she rejects him, she's no longer a target, and Gwen doesn't die.
    until the horrible sins of past is retconed she is always going to be the real target of Norman regardless.

  6. #21
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    [QUOTE=jetengine;4389456]I'd like an issue where someone actually calls out this idea of "The mythology of Gwen Stacy" like a friend of Gwens tells peter that she wasnt as nice as he remembers and that irs more the shock of losing her thats lead him to elevare her to the best kind of women.[/QUOTE
    I said this before and I will say it again, there is no need to bash Gwen by bringing up her flaws. That said, the only reasons why Gwen Stacy has relevance in the 21st Century are. 1: Emma Stone. 2: As a plot device such as Sins Past or the Clone Saga ( both despised by most Spider'Man fans).3: As a reference point showing tbe End of the Silver Age. 4: Here is reality: Marvel has had plenty of opportunities to bring her back to 616 since ASM 121 and chose not to. Even Ghost-Spider Gwen when she moves to 616, will not be the same age range as Peter ( either thru aging her or making him actually younger), so they may meet, but will not hook up. Basically, MJ is the one for Peter, not Gwen or for that matter Felicia. The only ones who disagree are the fan boys of Gwen or Felicia.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    until the horrible sins of past is retconed she is always going to be the real target of Norman regardless.
    Sin's Past currently is in canon limbo because of Clone Conspiracy, so it's already been retconned out until someone decides to be cursed and bring it back up.
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

  8. #23
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Sin's Past currently is in canon limbo because of Clone Conspiracy, so it's already been retconned out until someone decides to be cursed and bring it back up.
    It hasn't been retconned. Nobody wants to bring it up.

  9. #24
    Spectacular Member KROENEN's Avatar
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    I think Gwen looks better post-death, much like in real life people tend to shy away from saying anything negative about the dead, but Gwen alive was at least partially a racist and socialite with mood swinging tendencies. I think Peter probably glosses over that stuff when remembering her, but MJ will always be a bigger part of his emotional core.

  10. #25

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    Just more of Marvel's anti-Mary Jane agenda garbage.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    Dead Horse.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Sin's Past currently is in canon limbo because of Clone Conspiracy, so it's already been retconned out until someone decides to be cursed and bring it back up.
    yep as Kevin said it isn't retconed so if someone is going to bring it up to retcon it then he will be blessed rather than cursed.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    (I am not saying that Peter isn't allowed to grieve, isn't allowed to be sad, isn't allowed to feel guilty over Gwen's death. That's not how grief works.)

    I think Peter keeping such a huge secret, prioritizing such a huge secret (which he did. He even thought about how he could protect his secret from Gwen after rescuing her from the bridge), kind of undercuts this idea of "real, true love". Peter was lying to her every day of their relationship. Peter was planning on being married to her without ever telling her he was Spider-Man. If you're going to make the argument that Gwen was his "real, true love", you have to acknowledge this is messed up.

    But comics have a history of messed up messages. If you want a recent example, DC's Heroes In Crisis didn't do a good job explaining the virtues of mental health care.
    What's interesting when you think about it is Felicia is technically the only notable love interest that Peter straight up shared his secret identity with. Mary Jane found out on her own due to be next door neighbors and Carly had to piece two and two together after Spider-Island.
    The artist formerly known as OrpheusTelos.

  14. #29
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    It hasn't been retconned. Nobody wants to bring it up.
    If you do a story where she literally comes back from the dead and the babies never come up, you're saying it didn't happen. That's like if your murder conviction didn't come up during a job interview. That's like if you have a peanut allergy and proceed to devour chocolate mixes no problem. That's like if you ignored Spider-Man on a list of popular Marvel characters. If no one wants to talk about it, it might as well not have happened.
    Our main character, a socially awkward outcast, gains newfound confidence and arrogance before committing a string of horrid acts. He then wears a fancy suit and proceeds to dance like a maniac to music that isn't actually there playing around him.

  15. #30
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    What's interesting when you think about it is Felicia is technically the only notable love interest that Peter straight up shared his secret identity with. Mary Jane found out on her own due to be next door neighbors and Carly had to piece two and two together after Spider-Island.
    Oh yeah, MJ had to tell him that she knew he was Spider-Man. And this was, what, years after he had first proposed to her? And even after she told him she knew, he had hoped he could convince her that she was wrong. It was only after she confessed her past to him (which she viewed as trying to make amends for confessing to Peter that she knew his secrets) that he became even the slightest bit comfortable with someone who was supposed to be one of his oldest friends actually knowing his identity.

    Peter has a very weird, very naive view of this kind of thing. (This is also why his relationship with Carlie crashed and burned. He couldn't open up to her when she realized the truth and confronted him about it. He still just stood there and lied to her.)

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