"Everyone knows that Peter loves Mary Jane, but Gwen was his real, true love."

[Kevinroc]

If you do a story where she literally comes back from the dead and the babies never come up, you're saying it didn't happen. That's like if your murder conviction didn't come up during a job interview. That's like if you have a peanut allergy and proceed to devour chocolate mixes no problem. That's like if you ignored Spider-Man on a list of popular Marvel characters. If no one wants to talk about it, it might as well not have happened.

That's not how any of this works. Sins Past is still canon until someone officially says it isn't in the pages of a comic book.

[ermac]

"you either die as an idealized virgin or live long enough to see yourself become the long term partner that requires commitment, responsibility, routine, ups and downs"

Gwen is like Uncle Ben. MJ is like Aunt May.

[Celgress]

In spite of what others here may think I agree with C.B. Cebulski's statement *ducks*.

[Celgress]

Yep,Gwen Stacy is Peter Parker true love.Peter Parker loves Mary Jane,but if Gwen Stacy had not died it would be with Gwen that Peter would be and not with Mary Jane.

I agree with you completely on this point as evidenced by the recent time travel/AU tale in Spectacular Spider-Man.

[emmafrosting]

I agree with you completely on this point as evidenced by the recent time travel/AU tale in Spectacular Sider-Man. Anyone who states otherwise is simply being dishonest to themselves by disregarding the source material.

"Source material" has stated decades ago that Peter loves MJ more than Gwen. I think this "true love" debate is utter nonsense because you can love two people at the same time for different reasons and it cuts out the nuance of what adult relationships are like, but Peter's love for them is unequal because loves MJ more. It's been clear since the first Clone Saga.

[Celgress]

"Source material" has stated decades ago that Peter loves MJ more. I think this "true love" debate is utter nonsense because you can love two people at the same time, but it's undeniable that Peter has moved on and loves MJ more than Gwen. It's been clear since the first Clone Saga.

"if Gwen Stacy had not died it would be with Gwen that Peter would be and not with Mary Jane." Is the part I was mainly referencing. I doubt Peter would have married MJ if Gwen lived. I just can't see him ever leaving her, sorry.

PS I almost wish this big event with Centiped Thingy ends with Peter being married to a resurrected 616 Gwen or else in a long-term relationship with her, for at least a few issues, just to see the shipper outrage.

[emmafrosting]

"if Gwen Stacy had not died it would be with Gwen that Peter would be and not with Mary Jane." Is the part I was mainly referencing. I doubt Peter would have married MJ if Gwen lived. I just can't see him ever leaving her, sorry.

The Spider-Man: Sinister Six trilogy novels actually dealt with this. Peter himself admitted that he believes he still would have ended up with MJ, and him and Gwen wouldn't have worked out in the long run and fizzle out eventually because they were fundamentally incompatible. That's something he only realized as he matured as an adult because back then him and Gwen were too young and in love with the idea of love to see the truth.

[Celgress]

...How do you think Peter is framed as a character had the Gwen is true love thing been true?

But it is true because the Marvel Office has decided it is true, at least for the time being.

Edit- Take for example, Superman. DC has decided he should have a son and be married to Lois Lane. Do I approve of this? Heck no, I liked him better with Wonder Woman and with no kids. However, DC is well within their rights to do whatever they want with their character.

[Kevinroc]

So, let others including C.B have their opinion 'nough said.

Cebulski's comments reinforce an unhealthy way of viewing relationships. I am concerned. After all, this is an industry that clearly thought "Heroes In Crisis" (to use a recent example) was a great way to examine mental health care.

[emmafrosting]

But it is true because the Marvel Office has decided it is true, at least for the time being.

Marvel editorial teams come and go.

Canon evidence built up for decades don't - and thinking people would just accept the opinion of current authority as factual despite the many strong arguments, persistent in the content for decades and built up by writers that came before, that certainly disprove it is just impractical. If storytelling is treated that fundamentally shallow and inconsequential, then yikes.

[AngelJD]

Before I begin typing my own thoughts I want to cover two things about me.

#1. I'm and Gwen and MJ fan.
Just reading the title/quote made me question if I should even enter and read this topic posts as it gave me a huge ship wars bait or minefield warning within me. That was killing a engagement factor but I went in anyway with hope. I hate when fans attack or put down characters to enhance their own and when I enter comics in late 2014 I recall that whole X Men vs Inhumans debacle and just from the flames and comments I read from X-Men fans killed a drive to engage/try some X-Men linked comics with my limited budget. As Fans we are ambassadors to characters thus we should consider how curious outsiders will perceive and see/read the flame wars made as most likely instead of mature fun/debates then might want to engage they will see negative assaults will make them run away helping nobody. On the other side reading how the writer and artists of the various Spider-Women spoke highly about each other and the fans mostly behaving better than the X-Men/Inhumans situation had me engage in all three Spider-Women and loving all three while they were around and I'm happy to be in the fanbase.

#2. These are fictional characters.

Now before I go into the characters of 616 Peter, Gwen, and MJ plus other Earth versions and such I want to write about the topic of love. Now in science there has been experiments and studies of the brain and chemical body reactions and such but love like 'spirit' or soul' is not so much a scientific understanding but a individual feeling that hopefully two people share. Love is a concept the some individuals believe in and some might not. In works of fiction 'love' has been a huge driving force for stories and sale and marketing. Love has been spoon fed to us with different values and rules that are really open ended.

'True love' is a work of fiction. First off the name 'True'. What does that mean? We have one 'True love' means all the other people I 'love' is 'false love'? No. There is nothing false about my love for my family, parents, and some friends.
The concept that writers tell us that: A: we can only love one person somewhere out there and the fictional characters found them thus they are 'true' is limited in scope. Grant how people feel about different people can have different values of love. Romanic, sexual, parental, family, friends all have aspects and values within love. I feel a person can love in all these categories and add or subtract different people in their circle. Some slowly and some a bit quicker.

I never believed in 'true love' but do feel a person can have many or few people out in the world they might be able to form a certain love. Now in this context I do feel somebody might develop feelings for somebody faster or have that chance to do so or not in a life for various people based on events and tons of other aspects.

Now just limiting for a brief moment just on Peter 616, Gwen 616, and MJ 616 we can see not love (I also don't believe in 'love at first sight') first but curiosity or infatuation. From there things can fall or rise or fall and then rise and go in any directions for characters.
In 616 Peter first was infatuated with Betty and a few other but eventually in time as those fell to 'just friends' or other Peter's gaze went down to Gwen and MJ later. Both gals got his attention for different reasons (minus both being stunning for him and general opinion). Now once more these are fictional characters and how the first writer Stan Lee presented how they presented themselves and what each thoughts is subjected to Stan Lee's desires in his story. Stan Lee had Gwen and Peter share a love for science (though I do wish that represented better as for me it was a case of tell don't show for Gwen's skills in the wide fields of science). Particularly Genetics. Meanwhile other writers would come down the road to showcase how MJ might love but not ready to embrace it and the responsibilities due to past family life written in for her character much later. Peter and MJ cooled to just friends but MJ loved rocking the boat and having fun at Gwen's and Peter's expense it seems in the past (I think MJ always figured that's how things were always going to be between her, Gwen, and Peter in her never let the party end outlook thus MJ took Gwen and Peter for granted at first always figuring they would be their in her life and party...till Gwen ended rocking not just Peter but also MJ's outlook).

Now I feel Peter loves both Gwen and MJ and if he could chose he would trade his life for them if needed be. The time factors and the hows those loves developed for not just Peter both also Gwen and MJ to Peter was different (and maybe other like each other but in different ways and aspects of the concept of love).

Now when somebody dies we traditionally will recall the good and not any of the bad. That basic human nature sometimes to self rewrite history. Also missing those that are lost will be a factor. This isn't exclusive to Gwen but anybody to Peter. Uncle Ben, [spoilers] the Peter version in Life Story he visited often Flash's grave (that didn't have the time to further develop the same way away from the bully role he once had) and had guilt about his death talking to him in a positive light only [/spoilers], and I figure on a Earth that MJ died instead of Gwen Peter would only recall the good and never any possible human flaws we all have and perhaps he once felt about that MJ due to his nature and value to the dead. Death places a rose colored glasses over all the departed memories of them to the living that felt something positive or even neutral to them when there was flaws existed due to being human.

Once more these characters are FICTIONAL. Strengths and weakness are made by writers. 'Canon' and 'Source material' can be alter or put new information in to suit whatever story and directions much like a Thanos snap by a writer. Thus looking to the past and 'rules' about death, love, souls, and whatever is to the writers whims. Frankly there are NO RULES. Only personal option good or bad storytelling.

Recently with 'Clone Conspiracy' and with 'Hunted' stating the souls that did return was the 616 version one's characters that makes the interaction of that Gwen and Peter something to look into as frankly 616 version one Gwen was then truly resurrected. 616 Gwen (and others) returned from the grave. However for a short time but that also means the Neck Snap by Peter is now 616 Gwen's 'first death' and her taking on 3 Goblins to help Peter is now her most recent death on the mortal plane (maybe...didn't see the body trope).
Now in CC Gwen and Peter had a issue to talked. They talked about recent matters, about Earth-65 Gwen for a short bit, then when the conversation went to 616 MJ 616 Gwen EXPECT from Peter for MJ and Peter to be a couple or married. When Peter responded negatively Gwen got angry with him. Gwen is presented in a way that she always felt that if she and Peter didn't then MJ and Peter would and she figured with her death being the catalyst for 'Peter and her didn't' situation achieved now MJ and Peter would.

Now also once more writers can do whatever they like to the characters.
In terms of 'True love' and the characters each writers has a favorite or belief of some kind. For 'source material' alterations/additions we could have a writer reveal a 'shocking secret' that when Peter was constantly away Gwen and MJ spent alot of time together and unlike Peter we discover MJ visited Gwen to make sure she was fine in London after her father's passing when Peter didn't and in time and because of MJ's caring Gwen developed love for MJ that grew stronger then her love for Peter (but 1960's/70's thinking culture would deny Gwen from openly expressing it). Gwen loves Peter but felt stronger love for MJ, Peter first felt love for Gwen strongly then later in time for MJ when conditions was right and developments, and MJ felt and in time allowed the love she has for Peter to be fully embraced then run away from or played with but also does love Gwen but not nearly as much as her love for Peter creating a different 'love triangle' forged.
MJ might offer a 'three way' between them but Peter would still moan and do his spiel about his love life wooes then Johnny Storm smacks the back of his head.

One Earth version could have a Peter that loves that versions of Gwen and MJ... but marries in time somebody else he loves and Gwen and MJ are 'just friends' and they all are perfectly happy.

The editor has been talking about his feelings to his own rules about death and love but those rules and beliefs lies with him and influences him only. The de facto standards are a illusion in a world of characters and storytelling and each writer hired and enters can contribute or mix things around.

On Earth-617 there was a Gwen presented that we were told was basically 616 Gwen BUT met and influenced by Earth-65 Gwen and because of that element lived. That 617 Gwen and Peter would eventually break up but we never got details to that. 617 Gwen bonded and has a perfect partnership with a symbiote and seeing how Peter feels about symbiotes (sometimes founded and sometimes unfounded) that might of been the reason they broke up. Other versions we seen in the past that has a living Gwen beyond that time point of death they are a couple (or Peter is dead) but the details can be wide. There are no guarantees but what a writer wants to present. We can comment about how we perceive the situations and beliefs with only what was made presently but the future is a mystery including how all the characters will become and act and the journeys and directions.

[Frontier]

I think Gwen should undisputably be Peter's first love, and her death was tragic, but going beyond that is doing a disservice to the history and story of the characters.

wait are you implying she isn't

Betty is only Flash's true love .

[Mister Mets]

18 posts were deleted. When you're arguing about comics, don't trash the other guy.

[Jman27]

How and why is Gwen his true love though? Cause I am trying to find reasons for myself to care for the original Gwen Stacy but their relationship doesn't stand out to me at all its incomplete cause she died. And to be honest the only reason why I care for Gwen now is cause she died. I know they add stuff to her character post-death such as Blue and Clone Conspiracy but is that reason enough for her to be put over MJ and every other romantic interest of Peter? Another question I have was Gwen really a fan favorite Pre-Death?

[boots]

a writer gives his opinion based on the powerful effect of some artwork on him. end of story