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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Was he ever stronger than that?
    The first handbook had him in the 85 ton range, but then he got a boost up, but I don't know by how much. Given Ben's nature, I always felt like he'd never tell you his limits. He's not afraid of them. He knows he has them. But he's never going to let a number stop him. And he's never really going to go for a peak exertion just so that some pencil neck can jot it down in a tell-all handbook.

  2. #32
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    I always find Thing feats a little weird because he's not so much a heavy lifter/hitter as much as anybody else in his range. His strength came largely from his durability so he can keep coming.
    I think it's not even his durability, but more his heart. His thing has always been that even against stronger tougher opponents no matter how often he gets knocked down, he just keeps getting back up. It's the whole Rocky Balboa underdog thing. He fights with the class 100 guys above his weight class consistantly on sheer determination.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyjam2233 View Post
    I think of Silver Surfer as not being written to the level of what his power set is supposed to be. He already has the strength to lift 100 tons but written to move at speeds much much faster then the Flash. Fast enough to easily travel thru time like the Flash has done. Now the Flash, if he's just standing in place has the strength of a normal person, but if he hits someone while he's moving, the kinetic force is so powerful that's his blows have been said to be among any of the heavy hitters in comics. Wonder Woman once said the Hunter Solomon (Zoom) punched harder then Superman did. Well, if you take Silver Surfer with his normal strength of lifting 100 tons, and he hits someone at 10 times the speed of light, then the shock wave should be able to destroy a moon.
    Other Characters who I think are under rated are B level characters. Forge, Cypher, and Multiple Man. Multiple can study anything and everything with one of his duplicates, and it will remembered by the prime. Think of studying everything and knowing everything? Forge on the other hand can create anything he thinks of that's mechanical, but he can make mechanical items that make things that are NOT mechanical. Why not something that can give him any power he wants. His brain works on the level of understanding anything so he can't make something to powerful for him either.
    Cypher, the language powered mutant, I never looked at the same after I read the Necrosha story where Selene brought him back from the dead. He almost beat the New Mutants single handed because read their body language so he was able to counter their fighting techniques. He read their body language, which was pretty slick by what ever writer was writing him at the time. When the brain uses a language to command the body to do something. I always thought if Cyber could see any character use their power, the language from the brain to the body, he would be able to replicate that.
    Speedball, was another character I thought was more powerful then he's been written.
    I dont think Thor should last two panels with Silver Surfer. It doesnt make any sense.

  4. #34
    Incredible Member useridgoeshere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Definitely Phoenix (A.K.A. Rachel Summers-Grey). For the most part, her potential was fulfilled while under the supervision of Alan Davis. Nowadays, however, she is completely underutilized.
    Most X-Men get de-powered in other books, but Rachel gets de-powered in X-books, too. AvX was the last time she had a good showing and that might've been revealed as an illusion by Xavier in an Avengers book?

    I think Black Bolt is a good recent example of this. He's been treated like he's Banshee.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Charlie_1981's Avatar
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    I think the Enchantress (both, but specially Amora) is terribly underdeveloped, the writers treat her as if she was a third-rate villain and this for too long time, more than I would like to endure, when she is a goddess and her power should be above many characters (or same level than Morgan Le Fay, Dr. Strange or The Scarlet Witch among others), as well as her physical strength that would be more or less at the level of She-Hulk.

    With Sylvie Lushton happens the same, in the miniseries of Dark Reign: Young Avengers, it was seen that she had a power greater than she believed, for some reason that is not understood after that miniseries, writers put her far below when is not true.
    Last edited by Charlie_1981; 06-05-2019 at 08:17 AM.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Hulk gets this whenever they stick him on the Avengers. Going from raging force of nature to generic comic strong guy.

    Which is why I like him as far away from Avengers membership as possible.

    Also I'm sick to death of the powerhouse gets saved by the Badass Normal story. I get it power doesn't make a hero. It's just been done to death.

    To be fair this happens to a lot of solo characters when they get stuck on a team. Part of why I avoid team books as a general rule.

  7. #37
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    Hulk gets this whenever they stick him on the Avengers. Going from raging force of nature to generic comic strong guy.

    Which is why I like him as far away from Avengers membership as possible.

    Also I'm sick to death of the powerhouse gets saved by the Badass Normal story. I get it power doesn't make a hero. It's just been done to death.

    To be fair this happens to a lot of solo characters when they get stuck on a team. Part of why I avoid team books as a general rule.
    Hulk at least has somewhat of a free pass here, because his power levels can theoretically go up and down by design. Old handbooks had his base strength level at like 70 tons or somthing, which is actually kinda low in comparrison to the high end bricks. But at the same time his signtature ability is obviously to get stronger, so he in theory can be as strong as he needs to be.

  8. #38
    Fantastic Member Turlast's Avatar
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    I dunno why, but to me, Apocalypse never really seemed as powerful as he should be in the stories I read.

    Maybe I haven't read the right stories.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Hulk at least has somewhat of a free pass here, because his power levels can theoretically go up and down by design. Old handbooks had his base strength level at like 70 tons or somthing, which is actually kinda low in comparrison to the high end bricks. But at the same time his signtature ability is obviously to get stronger, so he in theory can be as strong as he needs to be.
    The 70 Ton thing is dated except for Joe Fixit, Calm Hulk has been portrayed as a least on par with Hercules for decades now.

    But it's not necessarily strength that I'm talking about, the healing factor, mental resistance, and sheer stubborn refusal to admit defeat evaporate as with Avengers membership.

    You see the same things happen with Thor and others. Thor get reduced to throwing a hammer or lightning, Hercules forgets all his martial skill, everyone needs to turn Cap to come up with plans or the will to keep going, despite doing the same stuff all the time in their solos.

  10. #40
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    I'd say definitely towards the later half of Mighty Avengers. The guy is made up of entirely anti-matter, one of the most powerful components ever, and they were keeping him as mostly just a scientist.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by useridgoeshere View Post
    I think Black Bolt is a good recent example of this. He's been treated like he's Banshee.
    Oh yeah. Back in the day, he could single-handedly take on the entire Fantastic Four *without* using his voice, which was supposed to be a *curse,* not a bonus super-power that he used every time he appeared... These days, it's all, 'Oh, it's Black Bolt. He'll be using the power *he's never supposed to use* within two panels...'

    He's crazy powerful, without the voice, and I read stuff like Iron Man beating him with some sonic nullifier field and think, 'Great Tony, he actually hates his voice, you just made it easier for him to keep it under control while he kicks your butt with his actual super-powers, without the distraction of constantly being on the alert not to grunt or wheeze or cough...'

    Such bad writing.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by useridgoeshere View Post
    Most X-Men get de-powered in other books, but Rachel gets de-powered in X-books, too. AvX was the last time she had a good showing and that might've been revealed as an illusion by Xavier in an Avengers book?

    I think Black Bolt is a good recent example of this. He's been treated like he's Banshee.
    I don't know if the treatment of Black Bolt is entirely recent. I recall an old issue of Captain Marvel (the original, Mar-Vell) where a crew of Kree soldiers knocked the crap out of him and bloodied him pretty good. But you're right, from the recent scans that I've seen of him, they do treat his voice like it's THE weapon. I guess the missed the issue of FF where Black Bolt moved the entire city to the moon unaided. That's at minimal a Herald-level feat and something that probably only one or two of the most powerful telekinetics on the planet can do without killing themselves.

  13. #43
    Mighty Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    By the by I think Grimm could use an upgrade. Put him at Hercules level. That be enough to allow him to keep up while still being an underdog.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    By the by I think Grimm could use an upgrade. Put him at Hercules level. That be enough to allow him to keep up while still being an underdog.
    Not sure I agree with this. Ben not quite being in that league has been addressed on panel for a LONG time. Ben himself saying it used to be him, Hulk, and Thor, and then later along come guys like Hercules, Wonderman, Colossus, etc and he even complains about it.

  15. #45
    Mighty Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    Not sure I agree with this. Ben not quite being in that league has been addressed on panel for a LONG time. Ben himself saying it used to be him, Hulk, and Thor, and then later along come guys like Hercules, Wonderman, Colossus, etc and he even complains about it.
    Namor was in there too, and Hercs been around for awhile 1965 or so. I think Ben should be above the general pack, but Marvel doesn't seem interested.

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