Uncanny X-Force and Uncanny Avengers

[johnnyjam2233]

I just want to know if anyone else read these runs and thought they were the best books being written at that time? Everyone was worried about how Deadpool would be handled considering in his own book he was breaking the 4th wall, but Rick Remender wrote him perfect. Also, Jerome Opena' being the main artist mesmerized anyone who read the book with his attention to detail, but also his rendition of characters. We were all floored when he did the simple act of making Dark Angel/Apocalypse wings drag the ground like a cape. The story was grand and the readers felt at the time while they read the Dark Angel Story that they were reading a classic, and they were NOT wrong. But Remender ended his X-Force run and Marvel was so impressed they gave him a 3rd Avengers title. Uncanny Avengers. And there, Remender crafted a sequel better then the original. 27 issues story about the children of Apocalypse raised by Kang the Conqueror. A masterful story telling.

[Rosebunse]

While I think each run had it's problems, they do both hold up, especially X-Force.

And **** it, AXIS is one of my favorite events.

[Michael Watkins]

i remember feeling as if Deadpool wasn't as annoying as usual. so it had that going for it. but i attribute this mainly to the art.

[Mr. White]

100% agree.

While I remember I enjoyed Uncanny Avengers, I consider Remender's X-Force run to be one of Marvel's must reads/ have.

[Ultimate Rogue]

Yep, Ol' Remender irked me madly at times, but he wrote some greatness and had the pull to get some great artists on his work.

His Deadpool is my favorite version, genuinely funny and likable but could turn on a dime to be a menacing rotter!

I dipped in and out of his x-force along the way, I agree with you and Michael Watkins above that a lot of the love for that book comes from the stellar artwork of that first arc. His horsemen are the bestest EVA!, imo. He generally writes for the villains better than the heroes.

That shooting moment will forever haunt me!! ha, a genuine jump scare.

Uncanny Avengers - Yikes, where to begin!

That issue 14 was a freaking roller coaster within an issue, the most emotive, infuriating, captivating, engrossing, draining, giddy, rage inducing, fraught, tense issue that I've ever read. I punched a wall out **** ...... just ****, silly billy!

But I got over it, learnt some lessons, figured out that that's why comic fans have such a unique experience of consumption of their hobby, and I get that the long drawn out weeks between issues getting released causes angst to build within us. We get a bad rep even amongst our own, but they just haven't walked in our shoes. It takes a MAHOUSIVE amount of patience to enjoy these books at times while they are ongoing, and Rick Remenders long plots are a baptism of fire and brimstone.

So many stuff that I enjoyed in the run, but definitely things that I loathed too. His detachment to the characters was a blessing and a curse, and I got traces of an arrogance and sabotage towards Marvel in some of his interviews, but all's well that ends well.



I remember at the time Marvels chief saying that UA was telling stories of future movie possibilities, so that added to its scope too.

[Rosebunse]

I think what did Remender in was that bitterness. And it started in FrankenCastle, where he was sent death threats and fans were just mean. But it was also clearly cut short by Marvel. I remember that a lot of fans were initially skeptical of Uncanny X-Force because of it, even though FrankenCastle is one of my favorite arcs.

[Ultimate Rogue]

I think what did Remender in was that bitterness. And it started in FrankenCastle, where he was sent death threats and fans were just mean. But it was also clearly cut short by Marvel. I remember that a lot of fans were initially skeptical of Uncanny X-Force because of it, even though FrankenCastle is one of my favorite arcs.

Yeah,

He was brutal with most characters though, Punisher, Rogue and Hank Pym just to name a few, he didn't pull his punches, he seemed to have no concept of fan attachments! I can laugh about it now but at the time, sheeeesh Remender, pepper in some fun too dude!.

The Havok speech backlash was the final straw that broke his time at marvel I think.

On Frankencastle, it was that initial fight with Daken that made me sit up and notice Remender (and Daken), Daken psyching out Frank through flirting while fighting was truly menacing, it made him a real unique character to me, I haven't kept up with him though. I felt for Franks fans as the butchering commenced, and got the same rude awakening as a Rogue fan in UA#14.

[Omega Alpha]

UXF: Brilliant at it's best, although loses a lot of steam after DAS. UA: It's a disaster.

[Rosebunse]

Objectively, FrankenCastle was a good run. It was really good. And people complained because...why?

But the Havok speech...it was bad. And Bendis had a response put in one of his books very quickly, which makes me wonder what it was like behind the scenes.

[ARkadelphia]

Didn’t read x-force. UA was a mixed bag for me, but seemingly for opposite reasons than most. To take 3 examples, I liked the Havoc speech but felt that the apocalypse twins story just went on and on and on. I did very much like the havoc and wasp pairing and them having a kid in the future and Alex getting scarred up. Ultimately there were no ramifications from any of this however v

[Ultimates]

Two great runs. X-Force is the most I enjoyed X-Men since I was a kid. I don't know if he tired of fans or just got big enough he didn't need Marvel anymore. His last book, Hail Hydra, reads like he gave up.

[H-E-D]

UXF: Brilliant at it's best, although loses a lot of steam after DAS. UA: It's a disaster.

Yeah, this is more or less my opinion. #1-18 were tremendous, consistently among the top books from the Big 2 in terms of quality. After that, I thought the Otherworld arc was a mess. Final Execution started off strong, but I felt that the Daken reveal fell flat, the time travel made the book seem like it was spinning its wheels, and then the ending was sorta just mediocre. Uncanny Avengers... a very disappointing follow up.

[gurkle]

Uncanny Avengers shows the weaknesses of writers using Avengers books to continue storylines from other books (which has been going on at least since the Roy Thomas days, to be fair). The Apocalypse Twins stuff would have been interesting if Uncanny X-Force had continued. With Uncanny Avengers it just ate up the entire book, so that we never even got to see the "Unity Squad" operate as a squad. I mean they announced their formation in issue #5, and then the Apocalypse Twins story ate up the next year and a half of the book, and then the planned ending of the book got cancelled so they could do "Axis" and then that infamous editorially-mandated Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch retcon.

Also the characterization of Scarlet Witch and Rogue as total jerkasses left a bad taste, particularly since this was the Scarlet Witch's first role in an ongoing book in almost a decade and this was not the way anybody wanted to see her characterized after so much lost time. But there was just a general sense of characters being forced to fit the plot instead of the plot fitting the characters.

There were good things in the run. Remender writes a really good Wolverine and a good Thor, and Wasp was good until the Havok romance ate up all her scenes. The Uncanny Avengers annual where Mojo kidnaps them all and puts them in a terrible high school sitcom was really funny and bitter about the whole comics industry. But you could tell it was compromised and that he would have been better off extending his run on Uncanny X-Force. That was great.

[Holt]

I'll voice the same. Uncanny X-Force is amazing, and The Dark Angel Saga is one of my top all time X-related stories. Uncanny Avengers was a massive come down, especially after I was so excited to see Remender handle the Avengers after the work he did on X-Force. The Havok speech (and Remender's response to the backlash) made me wonder why he wanted to write books about mutants in the first place if he felt that way.

[Rosebunse]

I think the problem with the Havok speech is that it wasn't just about mutants. Mutants in the MU represent somany minorities and to see that speech given by a character who can easily "pass" as a normal person was sort of...well, it was bad. And then you had Bendis's very well written response by Kitty Pride not long after. As I said, it makes you wonder about what was happening behinds the scenes. Bendis would have had to been aware of the Havok speech and had time to think abiut and articulate his response. There would have had to have been some coordination with the editors, it would have had to get approval.

It just creates this very telling picture of Remender's place in this. Doesn't help that by this point, Hickman's plans for Secret Wars would have been known.