Rumblers League Week 2: KJS vs Stigmazilla

[Darth Drizzle]

Venue: Ego

- We can discuss the match for 5 days.
- Each person participating in the match can post a maximum of eight times each in that time.
- Remember to give people a chance to post links and arguments etc.
- Poll threads posted next week (they'll be up for two days from Monday).

KJS v Stigmazilla

[Darth Drizzle]

THE COSMIC PROTECTION CORPS STRAT
Vs Team Beasts of Burden

Venue: Ego

PART 1

IRON SPIDER-LANTERN
With a thought, Hal puts an thick opaque construct dome around our team. It'll protect the team physically AND from having to see/hear Jasmine. Not one person on the other team is fast enough to travel 4 miles in this terrain before this shield goes up.
Hal's shield defended against a fully-fed, city-sized Parallax - the same Parallax who had previously broken out of a construct created by THIRTEEN Green Lanterns. His shields are strong.
PROTECTED: Our team.

SORCERER EXTRAORDINAIRE
At Yo-Yo's superspeed, Doctor Strange casts the Protego Maxima shield charm around the dome. The team is now doubly protected from physical threats. And there's DEFINITELY nobody fast enough to travel 4 miles before this happens, given Yo-Yo's speed. And this is what happens to people who run into this shield. This shield should actually be more potent than any shield seen in the Potterverse, as it's being cast by the franchise's most powerful wand and is amped by the One Ring - and this wand was the ONLY thing capable of bringing this shield down.
FURTHER PROTECTED: Our team (note: this double-layered shield of two different forms of energy will be difficult for anyone to phase through - not that anyone should reach it, given the other moves, but still...).

DOCTOR WAR LANTERN
With a thought, the Doctor creates helmets on Martian Manhunter and Jean's heads that amplify their telepathy by a factor of 10. Last time out, 1000 was deemed too much - 10 was specifically mentioned as being more doable, so that's exactly what he's doing. Given what an intelligent multi-tasker with incredible willpower he is (he literally persevered for BILLIONS of years punching through a mountain harder than diamond), he will also help to reinforce the shield around our team if need be.
TELEPATHICALLY AMPED: Jean Grey and Martian Manhunter.

BLACK PHOENIX
Jean combats Xavier with her telepathy. It's her job to keep him occupied, which she can do EASILY - yes, even young Jean, who utterly stomped Apocalypse.
She'll be doing this from the opening bell - and she's strong enough at her base level. But she is, of course, very quickly amped by the Doctor, and will not only prevent Xavier from doing anything else, she'll also quickly take him out of the fight completely by shutting him down.
OCCUPIED AND OUT: Professor X.

MARTIAN GOD OF THUNDER
With Xavier undoubtedly occupied, Martian Manhunter uses his superior speed to think faster than Hiro and immediately prevent him from doing a time-stop. Quickly amped by the Doctor, he then controls Ego's mind into attacking the entire opposing team. Ego was put to sleep by Mantis, remember, so he absolutely isn't standing up to an amped Martian Manhunter's TP. Remember, when all's said and done, Ego is a sentient planet with complete control over every molecule - with Martian Manhunter behind that wheel, the opposition are in a world of trouble (Kaiju size or otherwise). He will open holes for them to fall into (especially in Zoom's path), envelope them in matter, wrap them in tentacles, blast them to bits - every single one of them - and there'll be a major focus on engulfing Jasmine's face/mouth/body.
OUT: Hiro.
OCCUPIED AND OUT: Jasmine, Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, Surtur, Zoom, Hiro, Professor X, Rita Repulsa.

JOHNNY MASK
Masked Hancock is on defence. Any opposing team member approaching will be forced to burst into song and dance, losing complete control of their own bodies and minds - and any who somehow get inside our dome shield will be met with a Hancock strength punch the the face with this sharp vibranium shield on the end of it.

With regards to the singing and dancing, there's a major focus on Zoom. Hancock is fast enough to set up this reality-warp/mind-control before Zoom can travel 4 miles, that's for sure.
SINGING, DANCING AND/OR BEATEN UP: Anyone approaching.

UPDATE: We're shielded - 2 or 3 times. Xavier is completely occupied and overcome. Our telepathy is amped X10. Hiro is prevented from stopping time. Ego is subduing the entire opposing team. Jasmine is particularly targeted by him and Zoom will have massive holes open in front of him across the 4 mile route. Any approaching members of the opposing team are forced to sing and dance, or attacked by Masked Hancock IF they get inside our shield.

PART 2

IRON SPIDER-LANTERN
Hal keeps the shield up. That's his job for this fight - protection. He continues to put 100% of his willpower into protecting his teammates within the shield. At this point, if need be, he'll also create a gun turret with a targeting system on the outside of it, to blast the crap out of any opponents who get near.
PROTECTED: Hal Jordan, Jean Grey and Hancock.
ATTACKED: Anyone approaching.

BLACK PHOENIX
With Professor X either beaten or completely under Jean's control, she ups the ante. With her telepathy already amped, she lets go and unleashes the Phoenix and goes for a mass shutdown of the opposing team's minds. This SMASHED the astral version of Apocalypse (literally) and is amped by 10 times here. The opposition will already be dealing with Ego's assault and this will finish them off. All of them (except Mechagodzilla).
OUT: Jasmine, Godzilla, Surtur, Zoom, Hiro, Professor X, Rita Repulsa.

JOHNNY MASK
Hancock DOES NOT let up on his song and dance enchantment. Anyone coming anywhere near our shielded dome will be forced into a song and dance - and anyone getting within it will be physically smashed by him. Essentially, he remains on defence, ensuring Hal and Jean are safe.
SINGING, DANCING AND/OR BEATEN UP: Anyone approaching.

SORCERER EXTRAORDINAIRE
When Doctor Strange is satisfied that the opposing team are otherwise occupied (by Jean's mind shutdown and Ego's MM-controlled assault), he teleports himself, the Doctor and Martian Manhunter behind the opposing team (leaving his magic shield up behind him). I categorically proved this was possible last week - the wand literally enables instant teleportation.
He then opens portals around Surtur and the two Kaijus and closes them around their midriffs - not only dumping their top halves in another dimension, but also cutting them in two. He'll move onto the others after.
OUT: Surtur, Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, anyone else.

DOCTOR WAR LANTERN
The Doctor will rain fire on the opposition from above. Everything his War Machine armour has to offer will be utilised, he'll create the kind of massive constructs that were powerful enough to smack city-sized Parallax into the sun and smash them down on the opposition, and his Sonic Screwdriver will shut down anything tech-based.
OUT: Everyone.

MARTIAN GOD OF THUNDER
While using his amped telepathy to assist Jean with the mass mind shutdown and keeping Ego in check, Martian Manhunter uses his new position of leverage to smash lightning down on the opposition. Heck, he could even use Mechagodzilla to channel it to make it more powerful.
TELEPATHICALLY OUT: Jasmine, Godzilla, Surtur, Zoom, Hiro, Professor X, Rita Repulsa.
PHYSICALLY OUT: Jasmine, Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, Surtur, Zoom, Hiro, Professor X, Rita Repulsa.

UPDATE: Jean, Hal and Hancock are still protected by two shields while Jean shuts everyone down. Hal and Hancock remain on defence - with Hancock making anyone sing/dance if they get near. Doctor Strange teleports himself, the Doctor and Martian Manhunter above the opposition. Strange dumps the giants (and cuts them in half), then the others. The Doctor rains fire on the opposition. Martian Manhunter keeps Ego on side, helps with the telepathic shutdown, and smashes lightning on the opposition.

As usual, everyone will defend themselves and react to surprises as best they can. D-dumped characters will be saved by those with the ability to traverse dimensions. Etc etc.

[Darth Drizzle]

Stigmazilla vs KJS1984

Soundtrack: Judas Priest - Pain Killer

Xavier: will broadcast Jasmine's image to the opposing team, starting with Jean and J'ohn. He will then focus on confronting Phoniex and channeling Jasmine.

Rita: makes Jasmine giant, increasing her power ten fold. She will focus on amping Jasmine as much as possible. She will then focus on countering Strange.

Sutur: attacks the War Doctor. He destroyed a planet with his sword so even the Doctor couldnt stand against him. His massive size and AOE, means he can target large areas.

Zoom: morphs into a blue whale then breaks apart, into hundereds of parts. Then they all morph back to his orginal form. The Thing makes each part of the user its own entity down to drops of blood. Now each drop can grow back to its orginal form with morphing. Then then army of zooms take on the opposing team. The orginal with the glaive runs the doctor through with the glaive, hacking him to peices. The rest attack the other opponents, infecting them with the thing. One of them also tries infect Ego. We now have an army tearing at the opponents with everything they have. A few Zooms will do the whale trick continuously to enhance his numbers.

Puddle Jumper: sparks mechagodzilla off the bat, while cloaking. It then moves to the enemy team trying to take out the enemies tech, perhaps even the lantern rings, with a spark. If not it will pour power into the Dalek weaponry enchancing them immensely. They will focus on blasting Strange, then Phoniex and the lanterns.


Godzilla: attacks Hal. He can keep busy, blasting with with Atomic fire and smashing him with his size.

Mechagodzilla: attacks Doctor Strange using his cybertronian weapons and size.

Jasmine: using her powers demands Ego fight for her as well as the opposing team. Ego has fallen in love before, and has been susceptible to mental attacks from Mantis. She then continues to effect the enemy team, and focuses on Hancock. The Mask would absoutley fall in love with her, as would Hancock. She can also mess with Strange snaping his wand, and neck with telekinisis, assuming he is still against her.

Hiro: stops time, then goes after J'ohn cutting him apart with his blade. Hiro beeing well, a hero should then be able to wield thor's hammer, aiding him in battle against the rest of the team. Hiro is knowelable about Marvel comics and could wildnthe weapon with great skill. His first target will be Phoniex.

Ego: after he falls into line for my team he uses his immense power to crush the enemy team starting with Phoniex, and the Doctor.


All team members will work within the best of their abilties moving from opponent to opponent were needed taking note of controlled ones.

[Jcogginsa]

I'l note something immediately: Sling Ring Portals do not bypass durability. There is no evidence of that onscreen, and WoG states that Thanos skin is too tough for a portal cut to work

[Stigmazilla]

THE COSMIC PROTECTION CORPS STRAT
Vs Team Beasts of Burden

Venue: Ego

PART 1

IRON SPIDER-LANTERN
With a thought, Hal puts an thick opaque construct dome around our team. It'll protect the team physically AND from having to see/hear Jasmine. Not one person on the other team is fast enough to travel 4 miles in this terrain before this shield goes up.
Hal's shield defended against a fully-fed, city-sized Parallax - the same Parallax who had previously broken out of a construct created by THIRTEEN Green Lanterns. His shields are strong.
PROTECTED: Our team.

SORCERER EXTRAORDINAIRE
At Yo-Yo's superspeed, Doctor Strange casts the Protego Maxima shield charm around the dome. The team is now doubly protected 08000"]Our team[/COLOR] (note: this double-layered shield of two different forms of energy will be difficult for anyone to phase through - not that anyone should reach it, given the other moves, but still...).

DOCTOR WAR LANTERN
With a thought, the Doctor creates helmets on Martian Manhunter and Jean's heads that amplify their telepathy by a factor of 10. Last time out, 1000 was deemed too much - 10 was specifically mentioned as being more doable, so that's exactly what he's doing. Given what an intelligent multi-tasker with incredible willpower he is (he literally persevered for BILLIONS of years punching through a mountain harder than diamond), he will also help to reinforce the shield around our team if need be.
TELEPATHICALLY AMPED: Jean Grey and Martian Manhunter.

BLACK PHOENIX
Jean combats Xavier with her telepathy. It's her job to keep him occupied, which she can do EASILY - yes, even young Jean, who utterly stomped Apocalypse.
She'll be doing this from the opening bell - and she's strong enough at her base level. But she is, of course, very quickly amped by the Doctor, and will not only prevent Xavier from doing anything else, she'll also quickly take him out of the fight completely by shutting him down.
OCCUPIED AND OUT: Professor X.

You're turtle strat is a good start but I've countered it. Young Phoniex while more powerful then young Xavier, is at least the same degree of power as Phoniex if not more powerful. Xavier isnt trying to telepathically combat Phoniex head on. Instead the Proffesor is projecting Jasmine's auror straight into everyone's mind. This renders most of your team infautuated.

MARTIAN GOD OF THUNDER
With Xavier undoubtedly occupied, Martian Manhunter uses his superior speed to think faster than Hiro and immediately prevent him from doing a time-stop. Quickly amped by the Doctor, he then controls Ego's mind into attacking the entire opposing team. Ego was put to sleep by Mantis, remember, so he absolutely isn't standing up to an amped Martian Manhunter's TP. Remember, when all's said and done, Ego is a sentient planet with complete control over every molecule - with Martian Manhunter behind that wheel, the opposition are in a world of trouble (Kaiju size or otherwise). He will open holes for them to fall into (especially in Zoom's path), envelope them in matter, wrap them in tentacles, blast them to bits - every single one of them - and there'll be a major focus on engulfing Jasmine's face/mouth/body.
OUT: Hiro.
OCCUPIED AND OUT: Jasmine, Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, Surtur, Zoom, Hiro, Professor X, Rita Repulsa.

Xavier and Jasmine's mental attack should contain any mental attack on Hiro. How good is J'ohn's telepathy, shutting down hiro before he can think, seems like it might be out of his range.

[

B]JOHNNY MASK[/B]
Masked Hancock is on defence. Any opposing team member approaching will be forced to burst into song and dance, losing complete control of their own bodies and minds - and any who somehow get inside our dome shield will be met with a Hancock strength punch the the face with this sharp vibranium shield on the end of it.

With regards to the singing and dancing, there's a major focus on Zoom. Hancock is fast enough to set up this reality-warp/mind-control before Zoom can travel 4 miles, that's for sure.
SINGING, DANCING AND/OR BEATEN UP: Anyone approaching.

The Zooms with their speeds and the glaive should eat Hancock. I don't see the mask's charm working on the thing; sure it works on the cops, but the zoomthing is way more viscous and less human. If it does work I still have Jasmine/Xavier to put everyone right again. There is no way Hancock doesnt go crazy for her.



[

B]UPDATE:[/B] We're shielded - 2 or 3 times. Xavier is completely occupied and overcome. Our telepathy is amped X10. Hiro is prevented from stopping time. Ego is subduing the entire opposing team. Jasmine is particularly targeted by him and Zoom will have massive holes open in front of him across the 4 mile route. Any approaching members of the opposing team are forced to sing and dance, or attacked by Masked Hancock IF they get inside our shield.

PART 2

Ego is being controlled by three different ways. Zoom is infecting him, Jasmine is controlling him, and Xavier is using his mental powers. If any shield gets up, I have Godzilla, Sutur, the Jumper, and Mechagodzilla all smashing any shields. Sutur alone shatered a planet. The combined fire power of everyone on my team would peel a shield apart.

[B

]IRON SPIDER-LANTERN[/B]
Hal keeps the shield up. That's his job for this fight - protection. He continues to put 100% of his willpower into protecting his teammates within the shield. At this point, if need be, he'll also create a gun turret with a targeting system on the outside of it, to blast the crap out of any opponents who get near.
PROTECTED: Hal Jordan, Jean Grey and Hancock.
ATTACKED: Anyone approaching.

BLACK PHOENIX
With Professor X either beaten or completely under Jean's control, she ups the ante. With her telepathy already amped, she lets go and unleashes the Phoenix and goes for a mass shutdown of the opposing team's minds. This SMASHED the astral version of Apocalypse (literally) and is amped by 10 times here. The opposition will already be dealing with Ego's assault and this will finish them off. All of them (except Mechagodzilla).
OUT: Jasmine, Godzilla, Surtur, Zoom, Hiro, Professor X, Rita Repulsa.

JOHNNY MASK
Hancock DOES NOT let up on his song and dance enchantment. Anyone coming anywhere near our shielded dome will be forced into a song and dance - and anyone getting within it will be physically smashed by him. Essentially, he remains on defence, ensuring Hal and Jean are safe.
SINGING, DANCING AND/OR BEATEN UP: Anyone approaching.

SORCERER EXTRAORDINAIRE
When Doctor Strange is satisfied that the opposing team are otherwise occupied (by Jean's mind shutdown and Ego's MM-controlled assault), he teleports himself, the Doctor and Martian Manhunter behind the opposing team (leaving his magic shield up behind him). I categorically proved this was possible last week - the wand literally enables instant teleportation.
He then opens portals around Surtur and the two Kaijus and closes them around their midriffs - not only dumping their top halves in another dimension, but also cutting them in two. He'll move onto the others after.
OUT: Surtur, Godzilla, Mechagodzilla, anyone else.

As noted else where sling rings don't work like that against high duravility. Those 3 are atleast as durable as Thanos. The second he comes at my team he has the zooms to worry about plus everyone else.

DOCTOR WAR LANTERN
The Doctor will rain fire on the opposition from above. Everything his War Machine armour has to offer will be utilised, he'll create the kind of massive constructs that were powerful enough to smack city-sized Parallax into the sun and smash them down on the opposition, and his Sonic Screwdriver will shut down anything tech-based.
OUT: Everyone.

A powerful move unfortunatly its countered by everything else I have pulled offao far including having the literal planet come after your team

[KJS]

You're turtle strat is a good start but I've countered it. Young Phoniex while more powerful then young Xavier, is at least the same degree of power as Phoniex if not more powerful. Xavier isnt trying to telepathically combat Phoniex head on. Instead the Proffesor is projecting Jasmine's auror straight into everyone's mind. This renders most of your team infautuated.

Literally nothing about your strat counters the turtling. Like, nothing at all. Just saying "it's countered" doesn't really wash when... well... when it genuinely isn't. The whole thing is far too vague, for starters - but nothing about it AT ALL gets through the shielding or even acknowledges/anticipates it.

Nothing counters the teleport either. Literally no moves are countered. Not sure where you got that idea from.

Could you specify how literally any of your physical attacks counter the shield? How does anyone get to Doctor Strange, Hal Jordan, The Doctor or Hancock? Just for example. Four miles away, covered by two shields, how do Godzilla, Mechagodzilla or Surtur do it? They aren't written as moving. How does Jasmine's power counter it? The shield is opaque. How does Zoom? He isn't written as phasing and there's no proof his phasing would work on this type of shielding anyway. Pretty much everyone is written in a way that does not counter the shield at all.

Could you specify where the teleport is reacted to? What in your strategy anticipates that? There's literally nothing.

And Jean is amped by a factor of ten. The Professor is using a psionic power. Whether or not he's trying to combat her head-on is irrelevant. The fact is she attacks him and exploits the opening. That's what Jean does. Apocalypse wasn't trying to combat her head-on and she still literally SMASHED his astral form. And she wasn't amped ten times over at that point.

Xavier and Jasmine's mental attack should contain any mental attack on Hiro. How good is J'ohn's telepathy, shutting down hiro before he can think, seems like it might be out of his range.

J'onn's telepathy is amped ten times over, so it's THAT good.

He already overwhelmed the mind of fellow telepaths like Hannibal. This J'onn is ten times more powerful than that.

And Jean is specifically written as keeping Xavier occupied so that J'onn can focus on Hiro. THAT is how countering works. And J'onn's the quickest of everyone involved in this mental battle. He stops Hiro from time-stopping because his move goes off first and then he's immediately amped.

The Zooms with their speeds and the glaive should eat Hancock. I don't see the mask's charm working on the thing; sure it works on the cops, but the zoomthing is way more viscous and less human. If it does work I still have Jasmine/Xavier to put everyone right again. There is no way Hancock doesnt go crazy for her.

Hancock is shielded, like everyone else. You don't have Zoom written as phasing and, even IF you did, this double-layered Green Lantern/magic shield is more complex than anything he's phased through before. But you don't.

Moreover, if Mask's mind charm wouldn't work on him, why would the Thing work on him? Why would the Blue Box work on him? You can't say opposing powers won't work on him because of his nature, then assume the items you've given him would.

Unless he has been shown to resist reality-warping mind-control, he can't resist it. And neither can anyone else.

Ego is being controlled by three different ways. Zoom is infecting him, Jasmine is controlling him, and Xavier is using his mental powers. If any shield gets up, I have Godzilla, Sutur, the Jumper, and Mechagodzilla all smashing any shields. Sutur alone shatered a planet. The combined fire power of everyone on my team would peel a shield apart.

Jasmine is two miles away from him, so that doesn't work.

The Thing has never infected anything close to a being like Ego - a cosmic being whose physical manifestion isn't even directly connected to the planet itself at the time - so that doesn't work. And the Thing is not immune to telepathy, so IF it infected Ego, Ego would still be controlled by massively amped TP.

And you literally don't have Xavier written as controlling Ego, so that's just outright not true. Quote: "Xavier: will broadcast Jasmine's image to the opposing team, starting with Jean and J'onn. He will then focus on confronting Phoniex and channeling Jasmine."

You can't add things to your strategy afterwards to sway the vote. That's not cool at all. Xavier is not controlling Ego. And Xavier's heavily countered anyway.

As noted else where sling rings don't work like that against high duravility. Those 3 are atleast as durable as Thanos. The second he comes at my team he has the zooms to worry about plus everyone else.

I countered that point in five different ways already:

1) Every character is dealt with in various ways. IF that was to fail (pretty sure it doesn't given everything else in this list), it would barely matter.
2) Doctor Strange is amped. In two different ways. Everything he does in this league is considerably more powerful than what's been shown in the MCU. This regularly gets ignored but is a MASSIVE key point. The portals would have FAR more magical oomph behind them than usual.
3) Whether or not the portals cut their targets, the top halves of their bodies are still in another dimension and therefore out of the fight and unable to see or participate.
4) WoG is absolutely not canon and not usable as evidence. The forum's rules refer to anything merely SPOKEN ("hyperbole") as not being valid evidence.
5) The Russos have said a variety of things that simply aren't true. According to them, half of all plant-life and bacteria disappeared in the snap. All plant-life clearly still exists. And if a random half of all bacteria died, all the characters left alive whose "good" bacteria died would be affected negatively, because we NEED certain bacteria to live. Ergo, it didn't happen, and what the Russos say isn't true. They aren't writers or narrators - and even the words of writers and narrators aren't canon.

Also, Strange is invisible. Ergo, Zoom can't see him. Anyone specifically targeting him by attacking him physically automatically fails, because they can't see him.

A powerful move unfortunatly its countered by everything else I have pulled offao far including having the literal planet come after your team

But it's not you who has the literal planet on their side, it's me.

As I said, Jasmine can't do a thing to Ego from two miles away. Amped J'onn can.

The Thing would not work on a planet (and the Thing isn't immune to telepathic control anyway, so we'd still mind-control him, infected or not). Ego's physical manifestation isn't connected to the planet itself at all times. The Kurt Russell Ego wouldn't be infected by the Thing when the Thing isn't physically touching him. That's just a fact.

And Xavier literally isn't written as controlling Ego. He isn't written as projecting Jasmine at Ego. He literally doesn't do a single thing to Ego. It's completely uncool to suggest he is.

Like I have already mentioned, the strat is far, far, far too vague in parts. If "Rita focuses on countering Doctor Strange" (HOW?), "Surtur attacks the War Doctor", "Mechagodzilla attacks Doctor Strange" and "Godzilla attacks Hal" are considered enough to win, then there's a huge problem, given how much detail I've gone into in comparison. None of those parts of the strat (as well as some others) explain how those characters even reach their targets!

The vague strategy is nowhere near thorough enough to ensure the defeat of such powerful opponents - and that's disregarding the many ways it's countered.

I would also point out that, as a general rule, lots of linked evidence >>>>>>>>>>> no linked evidence at all. You have provided none.

[Jcogginsa]

Aside from the fact that you're meant to wait until discussion takes place - as stated in every opening post - there are a variety of things wrong with this...

1) Every character is dealt with in various ways. IF that was to fail (pretty sure it doesn't given what else I'm about to say), it would barely matter.
2) Doctor Strange is amped. Twofold. Everything he does in this league is considerably more powerful than what's been shown in the MCU.
3) Whether or not the portals cut their targets, the top halves of their bodies are still in another dimension and therefore out of the fight and unable to see.
4) WoG is absolutely not canon and not usable as evidence. The forum's rules refer to anything merely SPOKEN ("hyperbole") as not being valid evidence.
5) The Russos have said a variety of things that simply aren't true. According to them, half of all plant-life and bacteria disappeared in the snap. All plant-life clearly still exists and, if half of all bacteria died, assuming it was random and not only the bacteria in those who were decimated, all the characters left alive whose "good" bacteria died would be affected negatively, because we NEED certain bacterias to live.
6) Of every problem I see in my opponent's strategy, THAT was your takeaway from this thread????

I'll get on with it anyway, because there are a multitude of issues with the opposing strat...

1. Posting Immeadiately seemed like the more fair option, since it allows people to respond to it at the same time as they respond to the opposing argument, which conserves their limited number of posts.

2. There is nothing in Endgame contradicting their statement on the Plants and Bacteria. Furthermore, there is nothing in any of the films indicating that a portal cut bypasses durability. Granted, your point about half of them being elsewhere, unable to see, is valid

3. It wasn't the only problem, just the one that I had an immediate response to.

[Stigmazilla]

[QUOTE=KJS;4391220]Literally nothing about your strat counters the turtling. Like, nothing at all. Just saying "it's countered" doesn't really wash when... well... when it genuinely isn't. The whole thing is far too vague, for starters - but nothing about it AT ALL gets through the shielding or even acknowledges/anticipates it.

Nothing counters the teleport either. Literally no moves are countered. Not sure where you got that idea from.

Could you specify how literally any of your physical attacks counter the shield? How does anyone get to Doctor Strange, Hal Jordan, The Doctor or Hancock? Just for example. Four miles away, covered by two shields, how do Godzilla, Mechagodzilla or Surtur do it? They aren't written as moving. How does Jasmine's power counter it? The shield is opaque. How does Zoom? He isn't written as phasing and there's no proof his phasing would work on this type of shielding anyway. Pretty much everyone is written in a way that does not counter the shield at all.

Could you specify where the teleport is reacted to? What in your strategy anticipates that? There's literally nothing.

And Jean is amped by a factor of ten. The Professor is using a psionic power. Whether or not he's trying to combat her head-on is irrelevant. The fact is she attacks him and exploits the opening. That's what Jean does. Apocalypse wasn't trying to combat her head-on and she still literally SMASHED his astral form. And she wasn't amped ten times over at that point.[QUOTE]

Jasmine managed to use her power over the Tv. Xavier a master telepath, easily at young Jeans power if not more is doing the same thing. Protecting an image into someones mind is basic telepathy, it being Jasmine shoud by far increase her reach. Xavier would have exposed your entire team to her effect, almost effortlessly.



J'onn's telepathy is amped ten times over, so it's THAT good.

He already overwhelmed the mind of fellow telepaths like Hannibal. This J'onn is ten times more powerful than that.

And Jean is specifically written as keeping Xavier occupied so that J'onn can focus on Hiro. THAT is how countering works. And J'onn's the quickest of everyone involved in this mental battle. He stops Hiro from time-stopping because his move goes off first and then he's immediately amped.


I have Xavier pushing Jasmine on your entire team off the bat. As said before if a television can work, a master level telepath pushing a mega powerful character on everyone would do the same thing. Jean's telepathy isnt that great. Yes she beat Apocalypse, who only had defensive powers, but Xavier isnt dealing with anythinf of that level



Hancock is shielded, like everyone else. You don't have Zoom written as phasing and, even IF you did, this double-layered Green Lantern/magic shield is more complex than anything he's phased through before. But you don't.

Moreover, if Mask's mind charm wouldn't work on him, why would the Thing work on him? Why would the Blue Box work on him? You can't say opposing powers won't work on him because of his nature, then assume the items you've given him would.

I never claimed the blue box doing anything particularly to the mask. The Masks power effected random cops it did not effect a ton of othee characters. He litterally gets shot a ton of times and never does much to prevent it. In character the mask Hancock wouldnt be mass controlling my team he would be doing witty antics as he gets torn to pieces .

Unless he has been shown to resist reality-warping mind-control, he can't resist it. And neither can anyone else.



Jasmine is two miles away from him, so that doesn't work.

The Thing has never infected anything close to a being like Ego - a cosmic being whose physical manifestion isn't even directly connected to the planet itself at the time - so that doesn't work. And the Thing is not immune to telepathy, so IF it infected Ego, Ego would still be controlled by massively amped TP

.

Jasmine can totally control , Ego. It is super in character that he would be effected. His mortal form in the palace, has no defence against the Thing. He has never been shown to have any defence against anything like an infection that Zoom is doing to him as well.

And you literally don't have Xavier written as controlling Ego, so that's just outright not true. Quote: "Xavier: will broadcast Jasmine's image to the opposing team, starting with Jean and J'onn. He will then focus on confronting Phoniex and channeling Jasmine."

I have Jasmine Controlling Ego. Xavier is helping her. He is litterally written as doing so. So yes, Xavier is helping contrlolling Ego.

You can't add things to your strategy afterwards to sway the vote. That's not cool at all. Xavier is not controlling Ego. And Xavier's heavily countered anyway.



I countered that point in five different ways already:

1) Every character is dealt with in various ways. IF that was to fail (pretty sure it doesn't given everything else in this list), it would barely matter.
2) Doctor Strange is amped. In two different ways. Everything he does in this league is considerably more powerful than what's been shown in the MCU. This regularly gets ignored but is a MASSIVE key point. The portals would have FAR more magical oomph behind them than usual.
3) Whether or not the portals cut their targets, the top halves of their bodies are still in another dimension and therefore out of the fight and unable to see or participate.
4) WoG is absolutely not canon and not usable as evidence. The forum's rules refer to anything merely SPOKEN ("hyperbole") as not being valid evidence.
5) The Russos have said a variety of things that simply aren't true. According to them, half of all plant-life and bacteria disappeared in the snap. All plant-life clearly still exists. And if a random half of all bacteria died, all the characters left alive whose "good" bacteria died would be affected negatively, because we NEED certain bacteria to live. Ergo, it didn't happen, and what the Russos say isn't true. They aren't writers or narrators - and even the words of writers and narrators aren't canon.

Ok then lets go Rumbles rules and go by feats. Strange doesnt have the feats for cutting anyone that durable in half. His portals aren't able to work on anyone that big. The ring and the elder wand defiantly are ample to amp him but he has never even tried on anything of the level he's doing here.

Also, Strange is invisible. Ergo, Zoom can't see him. Anyone specifically targeting him by attacking him physically automatically fails, because they can't see him.

The rings invisibity isnt all perfect. Rita as vast magic abilties and could also help target him. Her countering Strange, would totally include pointing out him if that became an issue.

But it's not you who has the literal planet on their side, it's me.

As I said, Jasmine can't do a thing to Ego from two miles away. Amped J'onn can
.

Amped Jasmine with Xavier totally shuts you down, and takes Ego.

[QUOTE]

And Xavier literally isn't written as controlling Ego. He isn't written as projecting Jasmine at Ego. He literally doesn't do a single thing to Ego. It's completely uncool to suggest he is.


I went through how Xavier is amping Jasmine.

Like I have already mentioned, the strat is far, far, far too vague in parts. If "Rita focuses on countering Doctor Strange" (HOW?), "Surtur attacks the War Doctor", "Mechagodzilla attacks Doctor Strange" and "Godzilla attacks Hal" are considered enough to win, then there's a huge problem, given how much detail I've gone into in comparison. None of those parts of the strat (as well as some others) explain how those characters even reach their targets!

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I feel that it is unnessarly to have to claim that characters move to their targets at the most effecient way. Unless you are doing a special move (like teleportation) then it should be assumed that they would approach their targets at the most optional way, in this case running. I could bring pretty much the majority of stragies written in the league where it is not mentioned that characters run/fly/jump whatever to their target.

For example Godzilla attacking Hal, Godzilla approaches Hal and then blasts him with Atomic breath Nuclear pulses, and beats him down with is size. That should be pretty well assumed knowing the character.

The vague strategy is nowhere near thorough enough to ensure the defeat of such powerful opponents - and that's disregarding the many ways it's countered.

I would also point out that, as a general rule, lots of linked evidence >>>>>>>>>>> no linked evidence at all. You have provided none.

The majority of what I wrote is very in character and shouldn't need specific references. The majority of people on this board could remeber Surtur crushing Asgard.

Further more if nothing else, if you want to get into specifics you never target the Puddle Jumper which is its own being at this point. You barley even target Xavier with physical attacks. So it is fairly open to tear your team apart unheeded, especially if you factor in its cloak.

Zoom is similarly unaffected through out the beginning of your strategy, and is mega fast. Faster then anyone of your team. He has the glaive (plus a ton of clones). Even if we assume characters arent intellegent enough to in character use their abilties (phasing in this instance), he could cut through a force field, and demolish your team.

[KJS]

I'l note something immediately: Sling Ring Portals do not bypass durability. There is no evidence of that onscreen, and WoG states that Thanos skin is too tough for a portal cut to work

Aside from the fact that you're meant to wait until discussion takes place - as stated in every opening post - there are a variety of things wrong with this...

1) Every character is dealt with in various ways. IF that was to fail (pretty sure it doesn't given what else I'm about to say), it would barely matter.
2) Doctor Strange is amped. Twofold. Everything he does in this league is considerably more powerful than what's been shown in the MCU.
3) Whether or not the portals cut their targets, the top halves of their bodies are still in another dimension and therefore out of the fight and unable to see.
4) WoG is absolutely not canon and not usable as evidence. The forum's rules refer to anything merely SPOKEN ("hyperbole") as not being valid evidence.
5) The Russos have said a variety of things that simply aren't true. According to them, half of all plant-life and bacteria disappeared in the snap. All plant-life clearly still exists and, if half of all bacteria died, assuming it was random and not only the bacteria in those who were decimated, all the characters left alive whose "good" bacteria died would be affected negatively, because we NEED certain bacterias to live.
6) Of every problem I see in my opponent's strategy, THAT was your takeaway from this thread????

I'll get on with it anyway, because there are a multitude of issues with the opposing strat...

Xavier: will broadcast Jasmine's image to the opposing team, starting with Jean and J'ohn. He will then focus on confronting Phoniex and channeling Jasmine.

He's stopped by a superior telepath (who is quickly amped X10), so this doesn't happen.

I'd also question whether it would work, even if it DID happen (which it doesn't). Jasmine's image worked on a television, but that was still actually her. This is another man's second hand creation. It has no power.

Rita: makes Jasmine giant, increasing her power ten fold. She will focus on amping Jasmine as much as possible. She will then focus on countering Strange.

This is fine. It's happening four miles away and is irrelevant at this stage.

Sutur: attacks the War Doctor. He destroyed a planet with his sword so even the Doctor couldnt stand against him. His massive size and AOE, means he can target large areas.

This is way too vague. Surtur is four miles away and doesn't do anything meaningful here. Does he move? The Doctor is four miles away inside a shield. Even giant Surtur would take a while to move that far - and his movements aren't specified.

Zoom: morphs into a blue whale then breaks apart, into hundereds of parts. Then they all morph back to his orginal form. The Thing makes each part of the user its own entity down to drops of blood. Now each drop can grow back to its orginal form with morphing. Then then army of zooms take on the opposing team. The orginal with the glaive runs the doctor through with the glaive, hacking him to peices. The rest attack the other opponents, infecting them with the thing. One of them also tries infect Ego. We now have an army tearing at the opponents with everything they have. A few Zooms will do the whale trick continuously to enhance his numbers.

This first bit is so complicated that I barely understand what's going on, but it essentially ends with Zoom attacking us in an unspecified way. It doesn't say how, but I assume he charges. That isn't going to end well for him.

He couldn't travel four miles before our shields were up, or before our telepathy takes over, or before Masked Hancock sets up the mind-control song-and-dance trap. And Ego is opening holes in his path anyway (which he'll have plenty of time to do, giving all the stuff Zoom does first).

I'll get to the Ego thing in a second, because that's PARTICULARLY important here...

Puddle Jumper: sparks mechagodzilla off the bat, while cloaking. It then moves to the enemy team trying to take out the enemies tech, perhaps even the lantern rings, with a spark. If not it will pour power into the Dalek weaponry enchancing them immensely. They will focus on blasting Strange, then Phoniex and the lanterns.

This thing is just a low-level movie Transformer, it's barely relevant, but given that it's part of the Xavier character, it goes down in any of a number of ways when he gets smashed by lightning, constructs, Ego destroying it etc.

If it "moves to the enemy" it doesn't get through the shields, it ends up singing and dancing, there's nothing saying it's immune to the massive amounts of TP being thrown around etc etc.

Godzilla: attacks Hal. He can keep busy, blasting with with Atomic fire and smashing him with his size.

Again, very vague. Way too vague. Godzilla is large, but he's still four miles away and isn't specified as moving anywhere. Hal is four miles away and heavily shielded.

Mechagodzilla: attacks Doctor Strange using his cybertronian weapons and size.

Far, far, far, far too vague. Strange, like Hal, is four miles away and heavily shielded. And invisible. Mechagodzilla isn't specified as moving in any way, shape or form. He just "attacks". From four miles away.

Jasmine: using her powers demands Ego fight for her as well as the opposing team. Ego has fallen in love before, and has been susceptible to mental attacks from Mantis. She then continues to effect the enemy team, and focuses on Hancock. The Mask would absoutley fall in love with her, as would Hancock. She can also mess with Strange snaping his wand, and neck with telekinisis, assuming he is still against her.

Ego's physical representation is two miles away from Jasmine, in an environment heavily shrouded with trees and buildings etc. Ego can't see Jasmine. Therefore, the quickest and BY FAR most efficient method of getting him under control is Martian Manhunter's super-speed, amped, thought-based telepathy - which is his second thought of the match and definitely quicker than anything Jasmine can do from two miles away.

There is no way Jasmine gets Ego on her side based on this strategy.

Hiro: stops time, then goes after J'ohn cutting him apart with his blade. Hiro beeing well, a hero should then be able to wield thor's hammer, aiding him in battle against the rest of the team. Hiro is knowelable about Marvel comics and could wildnthe weapon with great skill. His first target will be Phoniex.

I counter Hiro stopping time with someone much faster than him getting in his head. This one definitely doesn't happen.

Ego: after he falls into line for my team he uses his immense power to crush the enemy team starting with Phoniex, and the Doctor.

See above, this doesn't happen.

So, a few key points...

1) Masked Hancock is ONLY mentioned in reference to Jasmine. Given that he never leaves our opaque shield, four miles from Jasmine, he absolutely ISN'T taken out. He's way too powerful to ignore like this.
2) Many of the attacks are far too vague. Some of the characters in the opposing team aren't even described as moving and their attacks are just written as "he/she attacks". That's not going to work against such powerful opposition.
3) Jasmine doesn't control Ego. No way. He's two miles away in a heavily shrouded environment. Yeah, the planet itself is Ego, but there's nothing suggesting he has eyes everywhere at any given moment.
4) Xavier is countered by a superior telepath (at least in terms of raw power to overcome him, not in terms of intricacy) and the superior telepath in question is quickly amped.
5) Hiro's time-stop is prevented by someone faster than him.
6) Our shield simply isn't anticipated or countered. That's massive. Physical attacks from four miles away aren't going to work.
7) Every opposition team member is dealt with in a variety of ways. Can't really say the same for my team members.