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  1. #31
    Spectacular Member greymoon's Avatar
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    Nobody was clamoring for Jason to be her brother or for Diana to have a father but that’s what DC gave us so we deserve to complain about it.

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    The difference here was that it was a full sibling, not half via Zeus. Another child of Hippolyta. That's part of what intrigued me in the beginning. But again, completely whiffed. And I definitely tried, in the beginning I thought Robinson's run was shaping up to be pretty good but...yeah.
    Yeah, I think the idea of Hippolyta having a son—probably before Diana—is an idea worth exploring and that could yield rich story dividends. But Robinson's Jason and Azzarello's daddy!Zeus narrative has thoroughly spoiled any such possibility.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Factor's Avatar
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    The only good thing about Rebirth WW is Year One, which is a pretty good retelling of her origin. Everything else (including the Truth) needs to be scrapped as it erased a lot more than it added. We were left with a character with no history and a pretty nebulous career we know nothing about.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    The only good thing about Rebirth WW is Year One, which is a pretty good retelling of her origin. Everything else (including the Truth) needs to be scrapped as it erased a lot more than it added. We were left with a character with no history and a pretty nebulous career we know nothing about.
    So your solution to the lack of history after a reboot (which I'd say was very much necessary) is to do another reboot, not build a new history and bring in those elements from the past history that are worthwhile?
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Honestly the best way to have handled this is Jason was real but not her brother. That he was born on the real island but to another Amazon. If Grail can be why not Jason. That or who could be The lacking dark gods creation

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    I think you could make the same argument about Supergirl and Batwoman...'specially, Batwoman. For me, it's not the creation of a Mr. Wonder sort that's the crime, here. Prince Jason, as introduced by James Robinson, is a terrible Mr. Wonder, though!

    I like that Geoff Johns, after decades of having no Mr. Wonder in the game, not only gave us a Mr. Wonder, but made him very difficult for writers and editors to ignore, the way they have ignored Rama, Champion, Herakles, Mister Genie, Mer-boy, Bird-boy, the Gargareans of Thalarion and the rest. Jason being a blood relation insures that some writer, in lieu of killing him off, will have to tear the DCU apart to erase his existence, ..which might force someone to do what should have been done in the first place: make Jason Work!

    I am almost certain that James introduced Hercules's protectorate city, Elexinore, with the idea of Jason replacing him, there, ..after COTGs was over. He certainly gave no indication that he had any interest in installing Diana, there, with Steve and ARGUS, so firmly, at Virginia Shore; so, why bother? Why bother with the time and trouble of creating a proxy Twin Peaks, with no relevance to anything else in the WW comic, that vanishes in the first few issues of his story arc? The intro of Elexinore was clearly a set-up for establishing a fictional city for a superhero, other than her, ..and, with Donna Troy nowhere in sight, that had to be Jason. In Elexinore (maybe, his Greek fishermen, with him), far enough away from Diana or Superman not to be redundant, the right writer would make him a male, blue-collar twist on Wonder Woman...

    And that would have been brilliant! BRILLIANT!

    Somewhere, in the mire of finishing COTGs, I think James forgot about this or, like Byrne on WW, he simply ran out of time to tell the story he had intended to tell. Instead of retiring Jason to Elexinore to sort out his grief, anger and confusion, after the death of Zeus, James treated us to Jason hanging around ARGUS and Diana's beach-house. He tied Jason's claiming of a superhero uniform to the Dark Gods/Dark Metal crossover event, keeping him in the story long enough to eat up panel-time that should have been dominated by Wonder Woman, ..the sole reason we have any curiosity about Jason in the first place. Had Jason, disappeared for a time and returned to aid Diana, at the end of a protracted battle against Darkseid - one which threatened Greece, his newly established home in Twin peaks and the entire world, ..we may be having a very different conversation, right now.

    James would have given us a Mr. Wonder, who might grow into the long tradition of costumed, lieutenant superheroes - Nightwing, Power Girl, Huntress, the Guardian, Steel! With establishing him at Elexinore, he would have given us the reassurance that Jason need not be regarded as a usurper, but, as a welcome addition of gender and culture diversity to the Wonder-mythos. I think that might have been what he'd hoped for, once.

    Who knows?

    In lieu of bringing Jason back from the so-called Dark Dimension, I still think occasionally allying Diana with a colorfully costumed, male sorcerer isn't the worst thing that could happen to her. Having powers decidedly unlike hers and a history in Sensation Comics, Sargon could carve out a niche, with strategically placed team-ups in good, high-stake stories. I might argue that his ruby, red cloak and golden turban - no Wonder-insignia, anywhere - offer further assurance to Wonder-purists that he's a Mr. Wonder, waiting to run Diana out of her own comic. A colorful, male playmate for Wonder Woman, with magical powers, who drops by to lend a hand ..and disappears, after the action...

    That might be fun. A fun WW comic...imagine!

    For me, a Mr. Wonder, who does his thing and GOES AWAY, like Batgirl, Steel and Mary Marvel do in their comics, could still be welcome. I don't want him hanging around Virginia City or ARGUS, mucking up the Di-Maggie-Phro character dynamic, ..and NO, I don't think making him LGBT would change my position on that. Prince Jason is exactly where he needs to be, even if his launch had gone more successfully, ..and that is OUT of the WW comic. As enthusiastic, as I am, about the development of a Wonder Woman superhero-family, I want to see great caution taken with re-introducing Jason to it...

    If at all.
    I'm not saying that you can't introduce an until now unknown sibling and make it work, you yourself point some out. But unlike another character, it immediately establishes an importance to the character, one that can backfire if the character isn't accepted by the majority of the fandom I think. They see that importance being put on a character they dislike, and it makes it worse I think. And, the majority did not seem to warm up to Jason. Also, I do get the idea that a sibling seems like it would be harder to write off/ignore, but here we are, with Jason dumped into the dark dimension with no mention of him since. I wouldn't have high hopes going forward either, just like I wouldn't expect Cobalt Blue to be showing up in The Flash anytime soon.

    I don't think having a male wonder character is a bad idea, but it needs to be done well, which Jason was not. It also wouldn't hurt if they figured out her previous sidekicks and supporting cast first, so that they're fans are less likely to see this new character as a threat or replacement. Unfortunately, the writers and editors for Wonder Woman seem to have a hard time not throwing out everything from a run the minute it is done.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I am perfectly ok with him, Diana is to overpowered and more annoying that an Idol...
    So, awkward question but did you actually like Jason? Or is this just more about disliking Wonder Woman, which I think you've said elsewhere?

  8. #38
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    He shouldn't. Next question please.

    Yeah, I'm in this camp when it comes to making Jason Diana's full-brother, as opposed to her various half-siblings fathered by Zeus with women other than Hippolyta. The half-siblings are a completely different story.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    He actually could just be the male version of Diana from another dimension
    That seems even more convoluted and unnecessary than getting rid of the bugger period.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Honestly the best way to have handled this is Jason was real but not her brother. That he was born on the real island but to another Amazon. If Grail can be why not Jason. That or who could be The lacking dark gods creation
    Another desperate attempt to justify a totally useless addition.

    It would be simpler to say he was an addition added by Dr. Manhattan when he was altering the DC timeline, and hopefully Jason will just be erased from all memory and existence after the end of Doomsday Cluck.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    So your solution to the lack of history after a reboot (which I'd say was very much necessary) is to do another reboot, not build a new history and bring in those elements from the past history that are worthwhile?
    No, I'd hate another complete reboot. I think they should salvage as much as possible from past continuities, especially Post-Crisis.
    My ideal WW canon would be based on Perez's take, but fixing some things like:
    - WW wouldn't have come late to the superhero party. Keep her as a JL founder.
    - Donna is Diana's adopted sister who she rescued as a child.
    - Trevor as a love interest, at least initially.

  10. #40
    Fantastic Member donnafan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    No, I'd hate another complete reboot. I think they should salvage as much as possible from past continuities, especially Post-Crisis.
    My ideal WW canon would be based on Perez's take, but fixing some things like:
    - WW wouldn't have come late to the superhero party. Keep her as a JL founder.
    - Donna is Diana's adopted sister who she rescued as a child.
    - Trevor as a love interest, at least initially.
    Same. I would add: Diana historically allowed to travel back/forth to Themyscira. I liked Rucka's Year One which fixed much of the nu52 mess; however, it really bothers me that Diana has never been allowed back on the island. The Amazons are great supporting characters and I really dislike when writers sideline them or, use them as endless war/battle casualties. A complete reboot is not necessary just a few tweaks to get the elements that readers loved, like the Amazons, back into the book.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnafan View Post
    Same. I would add: Diana historically allowed to travel back/forth to Themyscira. I liked Rucka's Year One which fixed much of the nu52 mess; however, it really bothers me that Diana has never been allowed back on the island.
    Note that the entire point of Wilson's opening large arc is to fix that particular issue.

    Rucka's Wonder Woman was a perfectly fine base for her continuity. Wilson proved that the Themyscira issue could be solved in an organic way, if one set one's mind to it. He had Trevor as her love interest. Donna and the JL founder status are otherwise outside of the Wonder Woman team's remit.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Note that the entire point of Wilson's opening large arc is to fix that particular issue.

    Rucka's Wonder Woman was a perfectly fine base for her continuity. Wilson proved that the Themyscira issue could be solved in an organic way, if one set one's mind to it. He had Trevor as her love interest. Donna and the JL founder status are otherwise outside of the Wonder Woman team's remit.
    I'm no longer reading Wilson's run. How did she fix the Themyscira issue?
    To me, the only way it could be "fixed" is if they revealed Diana actually returned there multiple times in the past. Otherwise, most of her career never happened.

  13. #43
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    I'm no longer reading Wilson's run. How did she fix the Themyscira issue?
    To me, the only way it could be "fixed" is if they revealed Diana actually returned there multiple times in the past. Otherwise, most of her career never happened.
    Such a revelation would just bog the title down with more continuity alterations.
    Themyscira isn't really an issue for me. She spends so much time flying back and forth there that other corners of her universe are neglected. Wilson is fixing the issue by just having her regain access to it, but we aren't really missing much IMO by having a 10 year period between her origin and now where she couldn't go home. They should fill it with stories revamping her rogues gallery and exploring other corners of WW lore that have nothing to do with the Amazons.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Such a revelation would just bog the title down with more continuity alterations.
    Themyscira isn't really an issue for me. She spends so much time flying back and forth there that other corners of her universe are neglected. Wilson is fixing the issue by just having her regain access to it, but we aren't really missing much IMO by having a 10 year period between her origin and now where she couldn't go home. They should fill it with stories revamping her rogues gallery and exploring other corners of WW lore that have nothing to do with the Amazons.
    They've been doing that since even before the New 52. For all the talk about the Amazons overtaking the story, they haven't been that much of a focus.

  15. #45
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowedeyes View Post
    I'm not saying that you can't introduce an until now unknown sibling and make it work, you yourself point some out. But unlike another character, it immediately establishes an importance to the character, one that can backfire if the character isn't accepted by the majority of the fandom I think. They see that importance being put on a character they dislike, and it makes it worse I think. And, the majority did not seem to warm up to Jason. Also, I do get the idea that a sibling seems like it would be harder to write off/ignore, but here we are, with Jason dumped into the dark dimension with no mention of him since. I wouldn't have high hopes going forward either, just like I wouldn't expect Cobalt Blue to be showing up in The Flash anytime soon.

    I don't think having a male wonder character is a bad idea, but it needs to be done well, which Jason was not. It also wouldn't hurt if they figured out her previous sidekicks and supporting cast first, so that they're fans are less likely to see this new character as a threat or replacement. Unfortunately, the writers and editors for Wonder Woman seem to have a hard time not throwing out everything from a run the minute it is done.
    I don't think anybody needed a ten or twelve-issue maxiseries introducing Prince Jason. In the old days, he would have flown through one issue of WW that gave us his backstory and some memorable flashes of his costume, ..before checking out of the comic, indefinitely, until fans wrote in requests for another appearance. That's how you introduce an opposite gender, lieutenant superhero...was, once.

    I love the idea of a Mr. Wonder, with all of Diana's powers and some of Zeus's, permission to borrow the INVISIBLE JET or hang out on the Island, anytime he wants! AND he's a prince?! He'd have been my favorite comic superhero, growing up; so, I don't know what went wrong with Jason's intro in Children Of The Gods. Seriously...he's the ultimate male WW fan's power fantasy! This pizza is too easy to deliver!

    I don't know, if he should get a second chance, truthfully. It would just be too painful to watch a character, with this much promise, mishandled, all over again. If you can mess up a character, with so much going for him, once, ..why should I believe that some writer will get him right, the next time?
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-10-2019 at 10:31 PM.
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

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