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  1. #46
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    I’ve always found Grant Morrison’s writing depressing and dark and hard to understand. Sometimes I think he takes his work a bit too far.
    Compare it to the output by Tom King.

  2. #47
    Boisterously Confused
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    To the OP's question:

    I suspect it's because DC's properties were designed for children and seem absurd (to some) in a post-Watergate world where the median reader age is higher than pimple victims.

    How to make these long underwear fascist fantasy images palatable to an older audience?
    1. Get eye-winkly complexly meta (basically Marvel's movie gameplan)
    2. Get Dark in hopes of capturing a Dashiell Hammett vibe

    DC went for option 2.

  3. #48
    VEGETATIVE INJUSTICE! Kurisu's Avatar
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    Because art imitates life? The world is on fire if you haven’t noticed.

  4. #49
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    . . .
    1. Get eye-winkly complexly meta (basically Marvel's movie gameplan)
    2. Get Dark in hopes of capturing a Dashiell Hammett vibe

    DC went for option 2.
    Dashiell Hammett was a much better writer, however . . .

  5. #50
    Mighty Member Jody Garland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    I’ve always found Grant Morrison’s writing depressing and dark and hard to understand. Sometimes I think he takes his work a bit too far.
    Out of curiosity, what do you find depressing in his work? He could use dark story beats, but overall, I think he's probably the least cynical, most hopeful writer DC has with a high profile.

    On topic, I think the meme that DC is overly dark is a little bit overused. They do have a high quotient of dark content and a tendency to return to darker status quos, but IMO it's usually balanced pretty well unless you dislike any amount of malice in your comics. Right now we've got Young Justice and the rest of the Wonder Imprint, Morrison's Green Lantern, Shazam and probably others I can't think of.

  6. #51
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Dashiell Hammett was a much better writer, however . . .
    Dunno. Gaiman? Morroson? Moore?

    Kinda think Hammett would'a been okay with any of those sitting down for a drink with him.

  7. #52
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    This week's Justice League, while ending as a launch pad for the Year of the Villains, felt to me instead as very hopeful. I felt like it reaffirmed everyone's belief in hope (and Superman). Hope may be people deluding themselves, but we see the heroes believe in themselves, and in each other, and most of all, in Superman.

    Doomsday Clock explicitly states it by having Dr. Manhattan be fascinated by Superman and hope.

    Can't argue with you on King with Heroes in Crisis and on Batman. Those both are super depressing.

    I'd agree overall, that the stories have a more negative slant, but do still think that they maintain a sense of optimism.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    I'm confused, I didn't read anything in YJ that was super depressing and without hope.
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  9. #54
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    There is hope at the end of Heroes In Crisis.Maybe it's just because I'm a glass half full kind of guy, but I see the fact that Sanctuary was able to reopen better and hopefully safer than before with more heroes, inspired by Wally's "attempts" to prove that nobody is alone with grief going there to receive help. Also, as things always go around I forsee Wally finding some kind of redemption whether you want to see it that way in the future. So, there is hope if you choose to see it.

  10. #55
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Dunno. Gaiman? Morroson? Moore?

    Kinda think Hammett would'a been okay with any of those sitting down for a drink with him.
    Depends on how full of themselves they were at the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man27 View Post
    There is hope at the end of Heroes In Crisis . . .
    "Hope" that there won't be a sequel . . .

  11. #56
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    Dashiell Hammett was a great writer. I just love to read his stories for the beauty of the language. Modern comics don't encourage that kind of skill, as they value minimal narration over the ability to paint pictures with words.

    When I got into comics, it was Marvel that was considered darker, while DC was the much more hopeful brand. The things that are attractive about the DC super-heroes are aspirational. I always wanted to have my own cave under my mansion, with loads of toys and trophies. Sure many of the DC heroes have gotten their fun stuff thanks to loss--Bruce and Clark lose parents, Hal gets his ring from a dying alien, Barry has to get hit by lightning and soaked with chemicals--but that was never the important thing about those characters. That's simply the opening overture for the greater drama that follows.

    And losing parents is a kind of wish-fulfillment--not something you want to admit, but Freud saw that we have this secret desire to disencumber ourselves of a parental authority figure to enjoy the freedom to do what we want when we want. That only becomes dark and depressing when writers shift the focus away from all the fun the super-heroes are having (which should be most of the time) and focus in on the losses. Maybe they're burdened with severe religious guilt and believe we must be punished for any good things we get. Original sin and all that rot.

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Hello,

    I was asking myself this since days, but now since I read also YJ Spoilers its more than enough:

    Why does DC write at the moment such dark,depressing Stories without hope?

    I mean:

    -Batman was always dark, but at the moment its very depressing
    -Heroes in Crisis is clear
    -Young Justice was a shimmer of hope, but I was destroyed by todays Spoiler
    -Doomsday Clock could bring hope, but I am not sure...

    I am sad about that, isnt there any Franchise who is full of joy,hope at DC at the moment?
    You could say the same thing about Dark Nights Metal.
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  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    the depressing part is that everyone must have been thinking that they will make it home once this arc ends but they end up getting lost in the multiverse.
    So the first 30 issues of marvels Excalibur? How is going to the multiverse only dark and depressing? You have captain carrot and looney tunes in the multiverse. Excalibur had tons of fun with this from a evil high school to X-Men as cartoons. Yeah you could end up on a zombie world or a world of werewolfs but you could also end up in superfriends and the krypto cartoon. Hulk even did a universe jumping story in the 70s and the nightcrawler 80s mini had tons of fun with it. In the right hands it could be fun but yeah if they just go to dark depressing worlds then that stinks.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Compare it to the output by Tom King.
    At least Tom King’s Batman SHOWED ACTUAL EMOTION and was Human in certain ways. Unlike Morrison’s Batman/Batgod as he is often viewed.

    To me, Morrison went TOO FAR with his callbacks and overuses of Batman and his mythos.

    At least Tom King kept things a bit grounded in a way.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jody Garland View Post
    Out of curiosity, what do you find depressing in his work? He could use dark story beats, but overall, I think he's probably the least cynical, most hopeful writer DC has with a high profile.

    On topic, I think the meme that DC is overly dark is a little bit overused. They do have a high quotient of dark content and a tendency to return to darker status quos, but IMO it's usually balanced pretty well unless you dislike any amount of malice in your comics. Right now we've got Young Justice and the rest of the Wonder Imprint, Morrison's Green Lantern, Shazam and probably others I can't think of.
    I didn’t enjoy Final Crisis due to how it was Handled. Nor did I enjoy Morrison’s take on Batman and the JLA. Too much of a good thing and too overuses of Batgod in the stories. I mean there’s a balance in honoring the past in modern stories, but I thing Morrison took things a bit too far with some of his work. That includes Multiversity too as I never like his evolved take on Captain Carrot. SOme things are better off to the professionals/original creators of the property.

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