Wishes for a Reboot..

[mikelmcknight72]

One other Earth 2 thought. In their USA, slavery never happened. Segregation and racism did. In their present day, segregation & racism have been over for a century before their WWII happened. Still, Hitler and the Holocaust still happened. The events of WWII can be shuffled to more recent times as long as the events and horrors are the same. I'd also have their tech be slightly different than ours ala Earth 2 on Fringe. Blimps are still in common usage. Clothing there is a little more vintage flavored, but it it is still 2019.

Come to think of it, I'd say Animal Man & his family either moved to Earth 2 or were always there. Our Earth keeps Vixen, and she's on the JL alongside Diana, Dinah, & Shayera. Earth 2? That's right: Earth 2 is Carter and Shiera, our Earth is Katar & Shayera. Each pair is a married couple. Carter & Shiera have two kids: Hector & Kendra. Kendra is married, & her last name is now Saunders.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

My pitch for Earth One TTs was to show the fab five's lives if they never met their mentors. So I thought to reuse that idea for the minority legacies in a potential reboot. Its a way to get to them faster but you would have to give up something in return.

just a thought.

[scary harpy]

I'm not sure I understand what you're suggesting. How can a hard reboot work if you don't start from the very beginning? Otherwise it just seems like another version of the this/that reboot style that DC has attempted in the past with mixed results.

*Kathy, Morrison version

Also, you said you don't want to see the first meetings of Batman vs villains again, I agree, but if the reboot goes that far back, we have to see the first meeting of Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and so on again, and I don't want that either. That's the same thing as remeeting the villains again.

I agree that DC doesn't know how to soft reboot, but being a fan of later characters just as much as the older ones, I'm not waiting for 5-10-20 years to remeet old characters repeating the same thing. I much rather they learn how to soft reboot. Learn to be consistent.

No matter how hard or soft the reboot, they won't matter if DC can't be consistent and steadfast in what they include or leave out.

Think of a Batman cartoon: what do you expect to see?

I've watched most of Batman's cartoons and that is what I expect in my comic: Batman and ally (or allies) versus the villain(ess) of the story.

That's it. That simple.

Do we need Batman's origin story again? His first meeting with his allies...or his enemies? Really?

We know these characters by now. We don't need to start at Day 1 or Hour 1.

We can assume by Year 2½ish that Batman has met almost all of his classic rogues gallery.

I want to start where the fun begins.

[byrd156]

EDIT: And, I found it:



From here: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post4208445

I would really like something like that.

Even if it was only like insert whatever Earth like the original Earth-2 from the New 52 but not have it connect to anything else. Just a few ongoings and self contained events for a decade or so. Sounds awesome.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

It would never happen, but I'd go back and start before OYL.

What they should have done with HiC is have Wally go back and prevent FlashPoint. They won't do it as they will never let go of a lot of Snyders Batman and the de-aging of the main heroes.

All DCU is on one Earth. The multiverse would exist, but the other universes would never cross with the main DCU universe.

The JSA would have been the first "major" heroes, they would have fought in what is referred to as "the War," but never mention WWII specifically. Supermans apperance would really start the age of heroes with the number of heros really expanding after that. Batman appears less than a year after Superman. Wonder Woman has been around, but doesn't go public until a short time after Batman starts. I'd be OK with them saying the Trinity were founding memebers of the JLA, but Cyborg was in the NTT, and when they became the Titans, he joined the JLA. The YJ4 would have been the second gen of TT, then graduated to YJ instead of the other way around. TT gen 3 could be Damian and Jon's group.

[Factor]

If anything, this thread shows somehow there is some interest in a total reboot. As I wrote before, I'm extremely against it being the new main continuity, but maybe if they made a completely new imprint ala the Ultimate line, they could have their cake and eat it too.
Restore Pre-Flashpoint for the regular line and start a new line from scratch with a pop up imprint designed to be new-reader friendly and slowly establish a new continuity.
Basically what if the Earth-One OGNs were part of a cohesive universe with way more frequent shipping and a small creative braintrust.
They could even use this Ultimate DC as a way to test new formats and business models. Instead of monthly physical ongoings, the books could to be made for digital platforms and adopt a seasonal model with new content launching every week for a period of 2 months or so.
This way readers would always have a clear starting point and it would be much easier to build momentum between chapters, similarly to how it works on TV series.
Start with no more than 4 books and keep it simple for a while. Think what the DCU universe would be like if it was created in 2019 and build from that, with way more diversity and less focus on nostalgia.

[Stick Figure]

Reading over this thread makes me glad I don’t have decades of DC comic reading.

I don’t see a need for a reboot. Just tell good stories and move things forward. No nostalgia. I get a nod every so often but I don’t want references to comics from the 90’s. Definitely nothing before the 90’s. I have a friend who has some comics from the 70’s & 80’s. Brutal to read. I’ve tried to read Crisis from the 80’s and couldn’t finish an issue. Move things forward. Let things evolve. Let characters retire or die. Isn’t it mostly about good stories regardless of character??

[Tenzel Kim]

I don’t see a need for a reboot. Just tell good stories and move things forward. No nostalgia. I get a nod every so often but I don’t want references to comics from the 90’s. Definitely nothing before the 90’s. I have a friend who has some comics from the 70’s & 80’s. Brutal to read. I’ve tried to read Crisis from the 80’s and couldn’t finish an issue. Move things forward. Let things evolve. Let characters retire or die. Isn’t it mostly about good stories regardless of character??

While I personally enjoy references to old stories no matter how old, I actually pretty much agree with you. A reboot is not needed as long as you focus on moving things forward and focus on telling good stories. The more you refer to past stories the more any inconsistency becomes apparent. If you focus on the present and the future then it won't really be a problem. Have editors that are well-versed in the history of the DC Universe so that IF you include flashbacks they can tell if it might muddle things (if you want to keep some sort of chronological consistency) and even more importantly make sure the events and happenings of the DC Universe are planned out properly in a flowchart so that you know when your story takes place in relation to other stories. That way you can prevent circular inconsistencies where for instance Superheroman #2 is stated to take place before Superheroteam #5 which in turn is said to take place before Superheroman #2.

[Tenzel Kim]

You take really the basics,which you need for NEARLY every Story and you dont erase the rest, but you simply dont show it until you need it..

And in reality is this:

-His Parents get shot
-He trains and becomes Batman
-He meets Red Hood who becomes Joker
-He goes to Circus adopts Dick
-Dick gets Nightwing
-Jason gets Robin and dies and comes back
-Killing Joke
-Knightfall
-other Robins showing up

This ARE the crucial parts, BECAUSE Tim,Dick,Jason,Damian are in NEARLY every Story and you need them DAILY...

Crucial is what you need for 80-90% of the Batman Stories and you simply leave the rest unclear and fill it then when you need for OTHER characters etc.

As others have said what is crucial to you is not objective. Personally I'd argue that the only thing that is really crucial for Batman is the fact that his parents got shot and that this is what made him train to become Batman. The rest is not crucial. Well, the part about Robin's parents dying in the circus and him being adopted by Bruce Wayne would likely be crucial for Robin, but basically I'd argue that aside from the basic elements of a character's origin the rest isn't really crucial if you want to do a hard reboot.

But as others have stated the problem of doing a hard reboot is that you remove a lot of beloved characters for quite a while which will cause a lot of readers to complain just as much as what we saw in the responses to how the original Teen Titans were handled at the beginning of the New 52. It would cause a lot of readers to leave because the characters they love and grew up with probably wouldn't be around for a number of years. Sure, you could introduce some of them earlier but you can't do that for everyone.

To be honest I think DC had the right idea in how they introduced the New 52 already being 5 years old if you are to do a hard reboot. That meant the universe could already be well populated. The problem with the approach as it was that there was no clear overall plan as to what had happened in those 5 years. If they had a clear plan it wouldn't even need to be something the readers knew but it would help prevent inconsistencies when they would eventually dip into what happened during those 5 years. Also they would need to make it clear that NONE of what you'd read before the reboot was in continuity anymore, that this was a clean slate and that in time you'd learn more about the beginnings of the new universe, just as when you meet someone new in real life. Most of the time you don't get to know them from the start of their lives, but over time you'll learn more about their past and what made them the persons they are today.

[Arsenal]

Think of a Batman cartoon: what do you expect to see?

I've watched most of Batman's cartoons and that is what I expect in my comic: Batman and ally (or allies) versus the villain(ess) of the story.

That's it. That simple.

Do we need Batman's origin story again? His first meeting with his allies...or his enemies? Really?

We know these characters by now. We don't need to start at Day 1 or Hour 1.

We can assume by Year 2½ish that Batman has met almost all of his classic rogues gallery.

I want to start where the fun begins.

But isn’t this more or less what the New 52 attempted to do?

And how is what you suggesting any different than the current status quo beyond everybody being younger? I’m just not seeing what unique opportunities your suggested method brings that can’t be done with the DCU as is.

[Restingvoice]

Think of a Batman cartoon: what do you expect to see?

I've watched most of Batman's cartoons and that is what I expect in my comic: Batman and ally (or allies) versus the villain(ess) of the story.

That's it. That simple.

Do we need Batman's origin story again? His first meeting with his allies...or his enemies? Really?

We know these characters by now. We don't need to start at Day 1 or Hour 1.

We can assume by Year 2½ish that Batman has met almost all of his classic rogues gallery.

I want to start where the fun begins.

That's what I'm saying, but replace Year 2 ish with Year 10 ish when Batman already has his allies and enemies. Then have fun.

[scary harpy]

But isn’t this more or less what the New 52 attempted to do?

And how is what you suggesting any different than the current status quo beyond everybody being younger? I’m just not seeing what unique opportunities your suggested method brings that can’t be done with the DCU as is.

The unique opportunities that my suggested method brings is new stories without baggage.

[Stick Figure]

When I think of things essential to Batman:

Bruce Wayne
Parents killed
Gotham city
Physical & detective training

That’s it. Make him any race. Do whatever with the costume. Give him any love interest. Just tell good stories.

[Restingvoice]

But isn’t this more or less what the New 52 attempted to do?

And how is what you suggesting any different than the current status quo beyond everybody being younger? I’m just not seeing what unique opportunities your suggested method brings that can’t be done with the DCU as is.

No, because New 52 screwed up by changing too much that's supposed to be familiar. All the classic DC cartoons tend to have a sense of familiarity with them when they start and the ones who introduce baffling elements were not received well, like when The Killing Joke movie made Babs had sex with Bruce and New 52 Superman made Lois had sex with someone else.

New 52 Batman and Robin were well received because even though it started with Batman already had a biological son that's unfamiliar to new readers, Batman himself doesn't change from what people generally know about him.

The unique opportunities that my suggested method brings is new stories without baggage.

I'm gonna assume by baggage you mean the later Bat family, but what makes them baggage compared to the earlier ones? Because if we're talking about that, there are people who view the original Batgirl and Robin as baggage already and just want a solo Batman with all his villains.

[TheBatman]

Well John needs to stick around He's too much of an asset that they've underutilized, and there is more than enough precedent for having multiple Earth GLs.

Also? More people like Terry None and the Reynolds family in Doom Patrol. I love them. Unfortunately the DP are more of a niche property and these latest volumes in particular are slow coming out, so they are not going to be as noticeable as when new characters are given a push in bigger properties.

Personally, if I were in charge of a hard reboot, I'd try to have as little human GL's as possible. I'd basically keep it at Hal and John.