Wishes for a Reboot..

[Masterff]

Hello,

I must say that I hope for a new DC Reboot:

I would love to see a return to Pre-Flashpoint with some influences of NEW52 and Rebirth..

Like for Super-Family:

I would LOVE to see Jonathan and Martha return, living at the Kent Farm, Conner finished the school and lives in an appartment with Cassie (both 22 years old), Lois-Clark and Jonathan Samuel (Jonathan Samuel 13 years old) living in Metropolis....

Martha with Lophi living also in Smallville next to the Kents House...

I never understood why DC let Jonathan and Martha Kent die in NEW52....

It would be cool to see Jonathan Samuel Kent growing up knowing his Grandparents and knowing Conner..

For Flash-Family:

Heroes in Crisis never happened, because Wally lives together with Linda and his 2 kids (Iris West II as new Impulse), Barry as kind of senior Flash and Bart as Kid Flash...
Jay Garrick and Wife and Max Mercury and wife as Guest-Stars...

[Vakanai]

It's an unpopular opinion here, but I really wish for a full, hard, clean slate reboot starting everybody back at their origins again and ditching all legacies for a good 5-10 years when they're reintroduced as sidekicks once more. So Batman back at the beginning of his solo career, then later teamed up with young Richard Grayson as Robin. Superman back in his year one, secret identity a mystery to Lois for the first few years. Barry Allen still new as the Flash, just starting to date Iris. Again, a lot of people here hate the idea, but it's the only reboot I want to see.

[Masterff]

Clean State works for me, BUT not so much back in time...

I would like to mix end of Pre-Flashpoint, with Jonathan Samuel Kent,Jonathan and Martha Kent...

The back to the very beginning happens in the Films every 5-10 years and its annoying and we saw that to often...

Besides you would exclude many characters like Jonathan Samuel Kent,Conner Kent,Bart Allen....and Wally West is more popular under the Comic Fans than Barry which also the reactions to HiC show...
I think almost everyone would be perfectly ok with my idea, since I think it was one of the most popular Eras and with Barry AND Wally as 2 Flashes back you would make the Fans happy..

Just leave this completely complicated annyoing timeline problems out, clean it out and transform Pre-Flashpoint,NEW52 and Rebirth in a timeline which has all the important Events in it, BUT without being 3 diffrerent timelines...

[Noodle]

Reboots aren't the magic key solution to everything.

People were unhappy with the direction of the original DC universe with things like Identity Crisis, Cry for Justice, etc. so they rebooted with New 52. People didn't like that so they did a soft reboot with Rebirth. People now have issues with that. The common factor? The same people were in charge over all of those changes.

Reboots don't work if the same people that "messed it up" to begin with are still in charge over the new stuff. The only actual change you'll ever see in the company's direction is if the upper staff changes.

[Dark-Flux]

You also unavoidable end up with new continuity hiccups after a few years of stories. Its just the nature of a shared universe being worked on by numerous creators. So rebooting is just a temporary fix, and to get there you sacrificed years of character development, or in many cases, you've sacrificed characters outright.

[Vakanai]

Clean State works for me, BUT not so much back in time...

Then it's not a clean slate. You still want to cherry pick the bits of continuity you like to keep, such as Superman having a son, Wally having graduated from Kid Flash, etc. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, just saying that's not a clean slate.

Edit: Also, I don't like the fact that Jonathan Samuel Kent exists, I'd never have given Superman a son. Same for Damian and Batman. Unpopular opinions I know, so unpopular that I feel people on the Superman forums would chuck rotten tomatoes at me if they could, but I think giving them biological kids was taking this damned legacy thing a step too far. But even so, you could bring back popular legacy characters eventually, you'd just have to pick which ones to bring back, when, and how.

[Masterff]

You also unavoidable end up with new continuity hiccups after a few years of stories. Its just the nature of a shared universe being worked on by numerous creators. So rebooting is just a temporary fix, and to get there you sacrificed years of character development, or in many cases, you've sacrificed characters outright.

Not in my idea:

My idea is to put Pre-Flashpoint,NEW52 and Rebirth TOGETHER...

So for example Super-Family:

Clark was born 1982, comes to Earth 1982, then becomes Superman and dies in the Year 2012 and comes back, Conner gets "born" 2007 and becomes part of the Kent Family, one year later 2008 Jonathan Samuel Kent is born and so now Clark is 37 Years old and Jonathan 11 and Conner is 26 (because of being born as teenager)...

So my idea is to take Pre-Flashpoint as basis, remove the unneccessary Events and put the Rebirth,NEW52 Characters just into (the one which DC would like to keep)...


So you then have a clean Timeline without one being from one timeline and the other from another etc. etc.
It takes a lot of work, but then you have a clean timeline...

[Dark-Flux]

Not in my idea:

My idea is to put Pre-Flashpoint,NEW52 and Rebirth TOGETHER...

So for example Super-Family:

Clark was born 1982, comes to Earth 1982, then becomes Superman and dies in the Year 2012 and comes back, Conner gets "born" 2007 and becomes part of the Kent Family, one year later 2008 Jonathan Samuel Kent is born and so now Clark is 37 Years old and Jonathan 11 and Conner is 26 (because of being born as teenager)...

So my idea is to take Pre-Flashpoint as basis, remove the unneccessary Events and put the Rebirth,NEW52 Characters just into (the one which DC would like to keep)...


So you then have a clean Timeline without one being from one timeline and the other from another etc. etc.
It takes a lot of work, but then you have a clean timeline...

So your solution to avoiding continuity hiccups is to... merge every timeline?
Maybe you can manage that for one character, or several. But ALL of them? In a shared universe?

And you say your idea doesnt remove character development or stories, but also say to 'remove unnecessary events.' Who's deciding that? Whats unnecessary for one character may be vital to another.

The New 52 merged everything to one time line and reset timescales. And in a very short span of time we had conflicting information. And by merging timelines youre erasing older stories or developments because much of that stuff simply cant be reconciled into one timescale or continuity. At least, not without drastic omissions or rewrites. Which you then have to try and apply across the board. And before you know it, we're back where we were; with continuity error's and another section of the readership calling for a new 'reboot' to clear up the mess.

There's no magic fix to this stuff. Even clean start-from-scratch reboots. See Ultimate Marvel.

[theoneandonly]

[Cowtools]

A full clean reboot, so soon after Rebirth, would be a huge embarrassment and admission of failure IMO

My solution would be for a team of editors to get together and decide on a 'core curriculum' of stories from the post-Crisis era to now - that doesn't include any 'Crises'.

So basically just publish a reading guide for all the major characters with 10-50 essential stories that when read tell a mostly coherent story without including anything about reboots, the multiverse, hyper time, Dr Manhatten, any of that.

Basically, instead of rebooting, you cut out all the stuff that makes rebooting necessary.

[Factor]

I think they should just bring back the Pre-FP continuity, with a few changes and adding some elements that worked from the nEw 52 and Rebirth.

Continuity changes:

- Earth-1 is the Metaverse.
- The JSA debuted 30 years ago to prevent a WWIII, but remained unknown to the world until after Superman first appeared. Their entire legacy on Earth-1 is restored.
- Wonder Woman was always a JLA founder and she came to "Men's World" around the time of Superman's debut.
- Flashpoint didn't reset the entire continuity, but it fixed unpopular events like Infinite Crisis and Cry for Justice.
- Maxwell Lord, Ted Kord and Liam Harper would all be alive.
- Barry did return in Final Crisis, but Wally would still be the main Flash of Earth-1, while Barry took a bigger role protecting the multiverse as Flash Prime, alongside Justice Incarnate.

New elements from Post-FP:

- Jon Kent (but still a kid)
- Emiko Queen and some elements from Lemire, like the Outsiders under a new name
- Jessica Cruz (I'd keep her as the Lantern of a cosmic JL team)
- Snyder's Justice League
- Cyborg being a more prominent character (but write him well this time)
- Everything Young Animal published, especially the new Doom Patrol (make Chief older and most of it fits well)
- The YJ's reunion under Bendis (ignore anything Lobdell touched)
- Justice League Dark (possibly taking the much cooler Shadowpact name)
- Silencer and the Terrifics
- Venditti's Hawkman (mostly the reincarnation through time and space, the Destroyer stuff can be ignored for all I care)
And most of all: no trunks LOL

I think it's pretty much it. I'm probably forgetting something, but

[Masterff]

So your solution to avoiding continuity hiccups is to... merge every timeline?
Maybe you can manage that for one character, or several. But ALL of them? In a shared universe?

And you say your idea doesnt remove character development or stories, but also say to 'remove unnecessary events.' Who's deciding that? Whats unnecessary for one character may be vital to another.

The New 52 merged everything to one time line and reset timescales. And in a very short span of time we had conflicting information. And by merging timelines youre erasing older stories or developments because much of that stuff simply cant be reconciled into one timescale or continuity. At least, not without drastic omissions or rewrites. Which you then have to try and apply across the board. And before you know it, we're back where we were; with continuity error's and another section of the readership calling for a new 'reboot' to clear up the mess.

There's no magic fix to this stuff. Even clean start-from-scratch reboots. See Ultimate Marvel.

I absolutely DONT think so, because every character has only few Events which are CRUCIAL for him and rest its more an add-on..

For example:

1. Superman:
Birth,Coming to Earth,becoming Superman,Death of Superman,Reign of the Supermen,Birth of Jonathan,acceptance of Kon El in Family....
and this would be it more or less

2. Batman
Birth,Loss of his Parents,the Robins,Death of Jason,Knightfall,Killing Joke, becoming Damians Father

Yes there are many events, but really crucial are only few....


Just do it like REBIRTH did with the Superman History
http://insidepulse.com/wp-content/up...poilers-4B.jpg[
here like this....I would be perfectly happy with this Timeline, BUT Conner should be in it AND Jonathan and Martha should be ALIVE..

[Vakanai]

I absolutely DONT think so, because every character has only few Events which are CRUCIAL for him and rest its more an add-on..

For example:

1. Superman:
Birth,Coming to Earth,becoming Superman,Death of Superman,Reign of the Supermen,Birth of Jonathan,acceptance of Kon El in Family....
and this would be it more or less

2. Batman
Birth,Loss of his Parents,the Robins,Death of Jason,Knightfall,Killing Joke, becoming Damians Father

Yes there are many events, but really crucial are only few....


Just do it like REBIRTH did with the Superman History
http://insidepulse.com/wp-content/up...poilers-4B.jpg[
here like this....I would be perfectly happy with this Timeline, BUT Conner should be in it AND Jonathan and Martha should be ALIVE..

Yeah, but what you consider crucial is different from what I consider crucial which is different from what someone else considers crucial. I don't consider Job crucial, and many disagree or agree. Or how I agree Death is crucial, but much of Reign isn't crucial in my opinion. Ultimately, who considers what crucial is not ever going to be a unanimous thing.

[Masterff]

Yeah, but what you consider crucial is different from what I consider crucial which is different from what someone else considers crucial. I don't consider Job crucial, and many disagree or agree. Or how I agree Death is crucial, but much of Reign isn't crucial in my opinion. Ultimately, who considers what crucial is not ever going to be a unanimous thing.

NO!

Crucial is crucial....It isnt important who says it, but its CRUCIAL for the character...It ISNT a matter of taste, but its what DEFINES the Character, the milestones..

Like if you ask for CRUCIAL Batman Stories (the MILESTONES!!) which really are important for the Batman History you have few:

-Batman Origin
-Knightfall
-Killing Joke
-Robins
-Death of Jason, him coming back
-Origin of Joker

The Rest isnt important, this are the Stories/Events which are remarkable and play also NOWADAY a crucial role....The other stories could have happened or not, but dont play any role if they happened or not..

I mean its like a life (365 days x 80, but many days could have happened or not, really important are only few: Wedding,leaving school,beginning to work...)


I dont say that DC should say that they NEVER HAPPENED, but do it like here http://insidepulse.com/wp-content/up...poilers-4B.jpg
Do you see? They listened the Milestones of Supermans Life...not ANY Event....this are the important ones,which are crucial for his life...

The other stories could have happened, but DONT have this crucial impact which you also feel nowaday...

Crucial should be which also nowadays has an impact and on which stories the readers still remind and like to talk about and think back like "killing Joke"...

[scary harpy]

It's an unpopular opinion here, but I really wish for a full, hard, clean slate reboot starting everybody back at their origins again and ditching all legacies for a good 5-10 years when they're reintroduced as sidekicks once more. So Batman back at the beginning of his solo career, then later teamed up with young Richard Grayson as Robin. Superman back in his year one, secret identity a mystery to Lois for the first few years. Barry Allen still new as the Flash, just starting to date Iris. Again, a lot of people here hate the idea, but it's the only reboot I want to see.

I agree with you.

Soft reboots don't work; we had abundant evidence of this.

You can't hang on to the old and embrace the new.