Wishes for a Reboot..

[Agent Z]

And yet the MCU has done pretty well, even if it's focused primarily on the white dudes from the Silver Age up to this point.

And it would done just as well, arguably even better, if they’d used their minority characters if Black Panther’s box office is anything to go by.

And I think a rebootded DCU even without the legacies could still be more diverse than that.

The Green Lantern franchise alone has the largest amount of minority characters among the leads in the DCU. Reboot without them, and it looks a less diverse. Then there is Cassandra Cain who is not only the first Batgirl to have her own solo series but is the longest running woc character with a solo in DC. That is not a milestone you want to throw away.

There are heroes who are not white/male that are not legacies that could be used in a greater capacity than they are, and would be around from the early stages of a reboot because a lot of them are either in the age group of the main heroes or Dick's generation. God knows a lot of them (I'm thinking Vixen in particular) deserve far more of a push than they get. And not all legacies are diverse. It's not like we have a shortage of black haired blue eyed boys in the Batman mythos, so Jason and Tim are not adding much diversity on that front.

Why is it a binary option? The world’s not going to end if Vixen, Cass and Duke have solo books. Having more minority led books can only be seen as a good thing.
I mean, why not get rid of Dick as well given he brings about as much diversity as Jason and Tim and there’s plenty of people who hate the concept of Robin entirely.

And they can pop up in new roles earlier on in a reboot if there is a good idea for them. So rebooting is not advisable, but if it's going to happen, you have to boil it down to the essentials.

This argument has too often been used as an excuse to toss away minority characters.

And the supporting characters, particularly the cops and the likes of the Amazons, are heroes in their own right even if they don't wear costumes.

Yeah, they’re heroes in their own right but not considered good enough to be the main characters.
It’s the type of diversity that is considered safe. It’s saying, “sure we’ll give you Lucius Fox but we won’t give you David Zambesi or Duke Thomas because we’re afraid of racist trolls”. This type of diversity means nothing in a post-Black Panther world.

[SiegePerilous02]

And it would done just as well, arguably even better, if they’d used their minority characters if Black Panther’s box office is anything to go by.

It probably would, but you said it wouldn't fly in 2019. Clearly it still can, even if it could be better.

The Green Lantern franchise alone has the largest amount of minority characters among the leads in the DCU. Reboot without them, and it looks a less diverse. Then there is Cassandra Cain who is not only the first Batgirl to have her own solo series but is the longest running woc character with a solo in DC. That is not a milestone you want to throw away.

The Green Lanterns are space cops in an army of space cops, they are not legacies. So who says they can't all be around in a reboot? They essentially were in the new 52.

Too late for the Cass thing, DC has already thrown it away. And a reboot would get rid of all the milestones in a new continuity, why would Cass be different? And who says she cannot still show up in some capacity? Just look at the BOP movie, she isn't Batgirl in that. She might not end up being Batgirl, but she's being put out there for a larger audience.

Why is it a binary option? The world’s not going to end if Vixen, Cass and Duke have solo books. Having more minority led books can only be seen as a good thing.
I mean, why not get rid of Dick as well given he brings about as much diversity as Jason and Tim and there’s plenty of people who hate the concept of Robin entirely.

It is, but in Duke's case it's a minority book connected to the Bat-brand, and there's already too much Bat crap as it is and nobody was asking for more kids for Batman, yet he keeps getting them all the same. it's excessive, and it would be excessive if Duke were white.
Vixen is her own thing and isn't contributing to flooding the market with one brand.

Dick is the first and is one of DC's longest running and most published characters. So...why wouldn't he be there instead of Jason and Tim? They were initially only invented to fill the slot he left anyway. And sure, why not go a bit without a Robin? Or do a composite character like the adaptations sometimes do?

This argument has too often been used as an excuse to toss away minority characters.

So it's for the best not to reboot at all to avoid this entirely.

But this thought exercise is about what a reboot would be like, and if we reboot from the beginning, then sorry a lot of newer characters who are generational wouldn't make sense being there because it defeats the purpose. It's not about specifically getting rid of minorities (or shouldn't be, the ones who are aiming for that are assholes), but extraneous characters and not all of them are minorities. Darla, Eugene and Pedro being added to the Shazam family is a perfect way to do it because they are being slotted into a space occupied by three bland other Billy's that few will miss and bring more to the table in terms of diversity and as distinct characters. Whereas adding more and more vigilantes (some of whom are white males) to Gotham where they all step on each others toes and increase the odds of them running into redundancies and most of them have no meaningful attachment to the main character.

Yeah, they’re heroes in their own right but not considered good enough to be the main characters.
It’s the type of diversity that is considered safe. It’s saying, “sure we’ll give you Lucius Fox but we won’t give you David Zambesi or Duke Thomas because we’re afraid of racist trolls”. This type of diversity means nothing in a post-Black Panther world.

You know the big difference between Black Panther and Duke and David?
He isn't a spin off character. He's his own franchise, the center of his narrative. Marvel waited too long to get him out there, but it wasn't because he was connected to a bigger main character who doesn't need him having their story being told first.

And it kind of sucks that the only way the big two can get more diversity characters out there is by spinning them off/attaching them to bigger names to give them a boost. And sometimes that can bog down the main bigger character with excess. I wish they could experiment with new ideas more and create NEW mythologies, but new brands in general (not just comics) have a hard time getting off the ground.

[TheBatman]

It probably would, but you said it wouldn't fly in 2019. Clearly it still can, even if it could be better.




The Green Lanterns are space cops in an army of space cops, they are not legacies. So who says they can't all be around in a reboot? They essentially were in the new 52.

Too late for the Cass thing, DC has already thrown it away. And a reboot would get rid of all the milestones in a new continuity, why would Cass be different? And who says she cannot still show up in some capacity? Just look at the BOP movie, she isn't Batgirl in that. She might not end up being Batgirl, but she's being put out there for a larger audience.




It is, but in Duke's case it's a minority book connected to the Bat-brand, and there's already too much Bat crap as it is and nobody was asking for more kids for Batman, yet he keeps getting them all the same. it's excessive, and it would be excessive if Duke were white.
Vixen is her own thing and isn't contributing to flooding the market with one brand.

Dick is the first and is one of DC's longest running and most published characters. So...why wouldn't he be there instead of Jason and Tim? They were initially only invented to fill the slot he left anyway. And sure, why not go a bit without a Robin? Or do a composite character like the adaptations sometimes do?




So it's for the best not to reboot at all to avoid this entirely.

But this thought exercise is about what a reboot would be like, and if we reboot from the beginning, then sorry a lot of newer characters who are generational wouldn't make sense being there because it defeats the purpose. It's not about specifically getting rid of minorities (or shouldn't be, the ones who are aiming for that are assholes), but extraneous characters and not all of them are minorities. Darla, Eugene and Pedro being added to the Shazam family is a perfect way to do it because they are being slotted into a space occupied by three bland other Billy's that few will miss and bring more to the table in terms of diversity and as distinct characters. Whereas adding more and more vigilantes (some of whom are white males) to Gotham where they all step on each others toes and increase the odds of them running into redundancies and most of them have no meaningful attachment to the main character.




You know the big difference between Black Panther and Duke and David?
He isn't a spin off character. He's his own franchise, the center of his narrative. Marvel waited too long to get him out there, but it wasn't because he was connected to a bigger main character who doesn't need him having their story being told first.

And it kind of sucks that the only way the big two can get more diversity characters out there is by spinning them off/attaching them to bigger names to give them a boost. And sometimes that can bog down the main bigger character with excess. I wish they could experiment with new ideas more and create NEW mythologies, but new brands in general (not just comics) have a hard time getting off the ground.

This.

Less John Stewarts and Dukes, and more Black Panthers, Vixens, Cyborgs, and Statics.

[Coco Loco]

I’m curious what you guys see as the benefit of a reboot. Is it just about streamlining or fixing continuity, or is there something else?

[Vakanai]

I’m curious what you guys see as the benefit of a reboot. Is it just about streamlining or fixing continuity, or is there something else?

Streamlining for me. Fixing continuity doesn't fix the fact that each character's current in continuity history is so dense you could spend a decade reading stories and feel like you didn't make a dent. You should never feel like you need to read a 20 or 30 year old story to appreciate the new one that just came out.

[Arsenal]

I’ve never felt like I needed to read a 20 or 30 year old story to appreciate a new one that just came out

At most, reading a new story that came out today has made me want to read a 20 or 30 year old story that I would never of known existed otherwise.

[SiegePerilous02]

This.

Less John Stewarts and Dukes, and more Black Panthers, Vixens, Cyborgs, and Statics.

Well John needs to stick around He's too much of an asset that they've underutilized, and there is more than enough precedent for having multiple Earth GLs.

Also? More people like Terry None and the Reynolds family in Doom Patrol. I love them. Unfortunately the DP are more of a niche property and these latest volumes in particular are slow coming out, so they are not going to be as noticeable as when new characters are given a push in bigger properties.

I’m curious what you guys see as the benefit of a reboot. Is it just about streamlining or fixing continuity, or is there something else?

Streamlining. Sometimes the major characters can get bogged down by lots and lots of stories (most of which are either just meh/standard fare or completely terrible), events and spin off characters under their wing that a clean slate that boils down to the essentials is a breath of fresh air.

Though a full continuity that honors everything and is able to tell stories in an accessible way is preferable because it's better or a greater number of fans. So they should avoid reboots (either full ones or half assed ones) altogether.

What I would REALLY wish we had was a continuity where COIE never happened and we got to see the DCU progress in a natural way. With the precedent it established, sometimes the "enemas" seem appealing when they probably shouldn't be.

[Coco Loco]

I’ve never felt like I needed to read a 20 or 30 year old story to appreciate a new one that just came out

Me neither, although I’ll admit my experience isn’t universal and may not even be typical, given that I’ve been reading for longer than 20-30 years.

It just strikes me that the closest DC came post-1955 to doing the type of reboot some are advocating here was the New 52. They didn’t reboot everything but they erased a heckuva lot. And while the New 52 #1s generally made for pretty good jumping-on or entry points, the stories were almost immediately mired in continuity.

I guess the response to that is “well DC just did it wrong” - and if so, touché - but that seems to be endemic to and inherent in the nature of shared universe storytelling. Marvel’s Ultimate Universe, for example, was a full reboot and had a small number of titles - but by the time it was 6-7 years in there was a ton of continuity, and if anything it was less streamlined than the regular Marvel Universe.

If the goal is to streamline continuity, there’s ample evidence that reboots do not work.

[scary harpy]

If the goal is to streamline continuity, there’s ample evidence that reboots do not work.

I feel there is ample evidence that DC doesn’t know how to reboot.

DC always wants to do a soft reboot: we’ll reboot everything except this/that because it’s doing really well right now. [No, DC. That has not worked the previous times you did it; it won't work now.]

Unfortunately, this/that messes up all sorts of history and doesn’t do so well years later. This type of (soft) reboot results in a big mess!

We want a hard reboot. Everything is erased. We’ve gone back to almost the beginning e.g. Year 2½ish to Year 4½ish of Batman with Alfred, Bruce (Batman), Richard (Robin), Barbara (Batgirl) and Kate (Batwoman – the new bat on the block).

An almost new beginning...we're not in the middle of the story but not at the start either. I don't need to see another origin story or the first meeting of Batman and that classic bat-villain again! I read it and watched it several times thank you.

[Gero4568]

I would orobably start by cutting down publication. 32 titles, plus miniseries/events/extra things. About 40 titles a month, with a few shipping twice-monthly. I would also try to move out of the idea of comic-book shop only sales. I would be selling these in gorcery stores and newstands again. That fixes the income problem. While doing that, I would also slash the prices. Whatever happened with "drawing the line at $2.99?"

The 32 Titles: Detective Comics, Batman, Batgirl, Nightwing, Outlaws, Action Comics, Superman, Superman Family, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, JLA, Teen Titans, Young Justice, Hellblazer, DC Universe Presents, Doom Patrol, Shade the Changing Man, Sandman, JSA, Legion of Super-Heroes, Outsiders, Green Arrow, Black Lightning, Static, Dakota (A Milestone Book), Golden Age (Focusing on all the Golden Age characters), Agents of L.A.W (Focusing on Charlton characters) and Global Guardians (a testing ground for new, diverse heroes).


For reasons of creating a new, somewhat more interesting yet reader-friendly DCU, I would try to blend the previous realities of the Metaverse to create new one, probably using Doomsday Clock aftermath to do that. These are some of my ideas (posted below):

[Gero4568]

Legit continuity changes:

- Earth-2, Earth-1, Sigma Earth, New Earth, New 52 and Rebirth are all the same Earth: the Metaverse. Wildstorm, Vertigo and Milestone are all elements of the main universe and are nothing more than imprints in this reboot.
- Earlier history actually gets to be explored a bit more and most of the wild west history is back as is the World War 1 stuff. Middle Ages stuff is iffy but all I can say is that there's two Shining Knights and the Demon Knights thing in this reboot. Same with most other historical stuff (including cosmic history).
- The JSA has a much longer history. There were a few members part of a Society since the start of America. The more well known JSA first appears in World War II. Most members a retired or dead realistically. Also, the JSA was a much more covert group. The flashy costumes came shortly before the war and returned after it ended.
- Wonder Woman has always been a JL founder, and appeared a year or so prior to Superman.
- Flashpoint did reset continuity, resulting in Prime Earth. Cry for Justice has disappeared and Lian is alive.
- Ted Kord was resurrected at some point prior to Rebirth-era events.
- Barry died in Crisis and returned in Final Crisis. Wally is the main Flash an was never trapped in the Speed Force by Abra Kadabra. Barry retires after Flashpoint and currently serves in mentor-type role.
- Batman appears two years prior to Wonder Woman and three years prior to Superman. The JL appears about five year after.
- All previous Crisis occurred. No multiverse restoration in IC, so no multiverse in FC.
- In short, No Multiverse.
- Kara died in Crisis and wasn't forgotten. She was later resurrected and became Superwoman. Supergirl is still Linda Danvers.
- Barbara Gordon is still Oracle.
- Wally West gets a new origin. In this version, he's Iris's younger brother who gained super-speed after an incident where he was nearly killed by the Reverse-Flash. This shocked his body and activated his metagene. In the course of five minutes, he went from nearly dead to the man who saved Barry's life. He then became Kid Flash and the rest is basically the same.
- Green Arrow's origins are rewritten to somewhat correlate to Arrow.
- Dr. Manhattan saved Alan Scott at the end of Doomsday Clock, thus ending the Post-Flashpoint era and beginning this one.

Elements from Earth-2 (And the Golden Age in general):

- The first villian Batman fights is the Clock (Slugsy Kyle)
- Bruce and Selina eventually get married. Helena is born when Damian is about 16 or 17.
- Bruce's eventual death, decades from now, occurs at the hands of Bill Jensen. This will be the catalyst for several possible futures including Titans of Tomorrow and Batman 666.
- Superman begins his career as a social justice activist.
- George Taylor is the editor-in-chief of the Daily Star, the newspaper Clark worked at initially (don't worry, he eventually moves to the Daily Planet.)
- Aquaman's prototype suit had yellow gloves. (Just an Aquaman inconsistancy that was eventually canonized on E2).
- Wonder Woman's bracelets are made of a Themysciran metal called Amazonium.
- Hawkman goes back to his Golden Age origin: An archaeologist who discovers he is a reincarnation of the egyptian Prince Khufu and that his lover is the reincarnation of Khufu's Preistess, Chay-Ara.
- Barry O'Neill was a playboy adventurer in the 1930s who aided in a war against Chinese criminals.
- In the mid-1930s, Bart Regan was publicly fired from his old federal agency, and secretly recruited into the Secret Service. In the process, he unwisely attempted to end his romantic relationship with his fiancee, Sally Norris, who made it her business to blow up this break-up. She stalked him relentlessly and later became a spy herself.
- Bruce Nelson was a detective that dealt with various criminals and mobs in the 1930s and 40s. He later gained a small degree of noteriety for investigating the murder of Carver Colman.
- Carver Colman exists in all meta-verse worlds, and since I'm pretty sure Nathaniel Dusk took place on E2, I think this is the best place to put this. Carver was the actor whon portrayed Nathaniel Dusk un a film series between 1939 and his death in 1954.
- Chuck Dawson was one of the misc. cowboys that existed in the Wild West. (He first appeared in Action #1, hence why he's continuing to exist). Other cowboys like Captain Jim or Jack Woods also existed in this timeline. They were probably part of the Rough Bunch.
- Dinah Drake is the first Black Canary. She later marries Quentin Lance and has two daughters, Dinah Laurel Lance and Sara Lance. Laurel is the modern day Black Canary.
- Most of the other Golden Age Heroes existed, being part of the All-Star Squadron. Most members were kept secret, hence the obscurity of so many of them.
- Infinity Inc. is back. While they aren't quite as dated, Infinity Inc. is, from the perspective of storyline at least, fully intact.
- Silent Knight is in the Middle Ages and basically the same. Celia Penbrook is rather different, mostly because this version would be a composite of Celia and Ystina. This way, after Sir Justin's incident, Ystina can become the new Shining Knight.
- Much like the New 52, Alan Scott is gay. In this version, Todd Rice and Jenny Lynn-Hayden were adopted by Alan and his partner, Sam Zhao. Todd and Jenny are simply metahumans.
- Jay Garrick's origin is explained by the having the minerals in the heavy water activate his latent metagene.
- No Multiverse means that Power Girl needed a new origin. I went the DCAU route and said she was a Supergirl clone called Galatea. Long story short, she was an agent of Cadmus. She later joined Infinity Inc. and the JL.
- With the exception of the Blackhawks, the Quality stories are canon. During WWII, the Freedom Fighters formed.
- Not Earth-2, but Golden Age related so I'm gonna put it here: Most of the non-Captain Marvel-related Fawcett characters had their own Squadron of Justice during the War.
- Finally, the Fox Dan Garret returns as the [Probably not Golden Age] Blue Beetle.
- All the Nedor/ABC characters that DC has access to also exist in the Golden Age (even Tom Strong).
- Most obscure golden agers exist, as in the detectives and spies, and the one-off heroes. They could actually be used, or even taken to the Modern Age.

Earth-1 and Pre-Crisis Elements:

- Outside of the superdickery, Superman is intact. Yes, Clark and Bruce battled space aliens and costumed criminals. Mostly in a rather "Morrisonized" fashion.
- Ditto for Bruce.
- Kara's origin and costume is basically the same.
- Barry's origin story is a mix of Rebirth, Showcase #4, Flash (1990) 1x01, and Flash (2014) 1x01. Here's a summary: When Barry was 11, his mother was killed by a yellow blur and his father was arrested for a crime he didn't commit. Barry is taken in by Darryl Frye and lives with him, next door to the West Family. Years later, Barry is hit by a bolt of lightning and doused in chemicals. He wakes up nine months later at S.T.A.R Labs under the care of Tina McGee and Silas Stone. Barry's first villain is the Turtle. Barry discovers that Turtle is in league with a guy named Mazdan. Barry fights them, this drags on for like an issue, but Barry wins. Barry knows Iris at this point, but she's currently dating Eddie Thawne (who later becomes Cobalt Blue).
- Wally becomes Kid Flash a few months after Barry debuts.
- Hal became Green Lantern a year prior.
- Green Arrow's first appears around the same time Hal does.
- The JL forms a year after Barry debuts. The founders are Clark, Bruce, Diana, Hal, Barry, Arthur and J'onn. They fought Appelexians.
- Donna Troy has her Pre-Crisis origin, mostly. The main difference here is that she's now a metauman with Amazonian-like powers, which vaguely makes more sense than "purple ray."
- The original Titans are Dick, Donna, Wally, Garth and Roy. Lilith, Mal, Hank, Don, and the rest of the originals come a little bit later. Origin still involves Mr. Twister at Hatton Corners.
- Satellite-era League is still canon.
- Hard Traveling Heroes is definitly in canon and very impactful.
- NTT happens, Cyborg is a Titan again.
- Detroit-League happens. Vibe is replaced by N52 Vibe, and is resurrected at some point Between Blackest Night and John's JLA.
- Dick leaves Bruce and Becomes Nightwing mere months prior to the events of Judas Contract.
- Jason arrives a couple months after Dick leaves.
- No Slade pedophilia in Judas Contract.
- Charlton stuff occured exactly as it happened.
- I would guess that Firestorm and Shazam would happen about here as well.
- Trial of the Flash occurs, but is modified: After Thawne tried to kill Iris, Barry snapped is neck in retaliation. Barry was arrested for murder and went on trial. Rogues, wizards, Big Sir and a Reverse-Flash costume later, Barry was free.
- Barry and Iris still ran off to the future. The Tornado Twins were born there, and Barry returned them to the 21st century right before Crisis.
- Barry dies in Crisis, as does Kara Zor-El. Other notable deaths include Don Hall, Lori Lemaris, Tula, Kole, Mirror Master, Wonder Woman, Zatara, the Crime Syndicate and many, many more.

[Gero4568]

Pre-Flashpoint Elements:

- Wally is the Flash. Wally is married to Linda. Wally has two kids.
- All of Batman's Pre-52 continuity: DiTF, Tim Drake, Knightfall, No Man's Land, Cass, Steph, Red Hood, Azrael, Damian, Kate, etc.
- Ditto with Superman, mostly with regards to his Death and Return.
- Perez Wonder Woman occurs as a follow up to Pre-Crisis Wonder Woman. The main retcon is that she was simply resurrected shortly after Crisis.
- GL stuff all happens, no real changes here.
- Same with Aquaman.
- JLI still happens.
- JLA still happens.
- Identity Crisis still happens for the most part, even though Sue is retconned to being severely injured instead of dead. This way, no concerns are present over current continuity with it. Everything else still happened.
- The events of 52 still occur. Renee is the Question.
- Meltzer League is very influential in the current situation.
- Johns Titans and Winnick Outsiders are extremely important runs.
- Barry's return and rebirth are very similar (as is Vol. 3 and Flashpoint).
- Steph is Batgirl.
- Damian is Robin.
- Many other events and storylines I haven't mentioned here are also within this DCU. This simply means that they aren't quite as relevent. Most of the stuff mentioned here is either rreadily avaliable to the average reader or is very old and avaliable to read online.

New 52/Rebirth:

- Simon and Jessica.
- Vibe has his New 52 origin story, with some elements of the old one.
- Some equivilent of Lobdell's Titans occurs, albeit with more in character writing.
- John's JL and JLA are major storylines that came out of Final Crisis and the resurrection of Darkseid a year after.
- Zero Year is a big part of Bruce's origin.
- Young Animal stuff is merged into Vertigo.
- JLD is still a thing. Because JLD is popular and actually kinda interesting.
- Wildstorm is still part of the main DCU.
- Emiko Queen is the new Speedy.
- Jason Todd's origin and storyline are mostly from the New 52 era.
- Elements of the West family come from here, Daniel primarily. NuWally also exists as a composite character with Walter West. (As in, he's a character with a dark backstory who is ocassionally known for more violent behaviors than other speedsters, blame his father. He does later get over that and become the new Kid Flash. In the future, he becomes Dark Flash).
- The Trinity of Sin exists. The Question is still Vic Sage though. (I imply he got the idea from ToS Question).
- Most storylines continue, with the exception of HoC.

[Arsenal]

I feel there is ample evidence that DC doesn’t know how to reboot.

DC always wants to do a soft reboot: we’ll reboot everything except this/that because it’s doing really well right now. [No, DC. That has not worked the previous times you did it; it won't work now.]

Unfortunately, this/that messes up all sorts of history and doesn’t do so well years later. This type of (soft) reboot results in a big mess!

We want a hard reboot. Everything is erased. We’ve gone back to almost the beginning e.g. Year 2½ish to Year 4½ish of Batman with Alfred, Bruce (Batman), Richard (Robin), Barbara (Batgirl) and Kate (Batwoman – the new bat on the block).

An almost new beginning...we're not in the middle of the story but not at the start either. I don't need to see another origin story or the first meeting of Batman and that classic bat-villain again! I read it and watched it several times thank you.

I'm not sure I understand what you're suggesting. How can a hard reboot work if you don't start from the very beginning? Otherwise it just seems like another version of the this/that reboot style that DC has attempted in the past with mixed results.

[Restingvoice]

I feel there is ample evidence that DC doesn’t know how to reboot.

DC always wants to do a soft reboot: we’ll reboot everything except this/that because it’s doing really well right now. [No, DC. That has not worked the previous times you did it; it won't work now.]

Unfortunately, this/that messes up all sorts of history and doesn’t do so well years later. This type of (soft) reboot results in a big mess!

We want a hard reboot. Everything is erased. We’ve gone back to almost the beginning e.g. Year 2½ish to Year 4½ish of Batman with Alfred, Bruce (Batman), Richard (Robin), Barbara (Batgirl) and Kate (Batwoman – the new bat on the block).

An almost new beginning...we're not in the middle of the story but not at the start either. I don't need to see another origin story or the first meeting of Batman and that classic bat-villain again! I read it and watched it several times thank you.

*Kathy, Morrison version

Also, you said you don't want to see the first meetings of Batman vs villains again, I agree, but if the reboot goes that far back, we have to see the first meeting of Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and so on again, and I don't want that either. That's the same thing as remeeting the villains again.

I agree that DC doesn't know how to soft reboot, but being a fan of later characters just as much as the older ones, I'm not waiting for 5-10-20 years to remeet old characters repeating the same thing. I much rather they learn how to soft reboot. Learn to be consistent.

No matter how hard or soft the reboot, they won't matter if DC can't be consistent and steadfast in what they include or leave out.

[mikelmcknight72]

If I recall correctly, Flashpoint was not originally going to reboot the DC universe. It was, at most, going to tweak a few things. I'd largely reset to that, and incorporate what worked from New 52 & Rebirth. The tone would be much more hopeful. Grim Dark for the certain characters only. It works best as a flavor here and there only. Here are some things, I'd do.

1. The Kents are alive and well.
2. Jon is alive and remains of an age with Damien. No aging up, thought a Super Sons of Tomorrow interaction with them could be entertaining.
3. No marriages were wiped out.
4. The pervasive grimdark 90s crap that still has a lot of push behind it at DC? Reduced to a reasonable level, and only with the characters well-suited for it.
5. Bruce has to be a bit grimdark, but it and the BatGod treatment is reduced to reasonable levels. Having Damien around and feeling the need to give him a more well-rounded childhood should push him to grow in the that direction.
6. The Final Crisis version of the LSH that arose at the end of their mini? That's the one, it is on our Earth. Slowly phase in some new characters, while some older characters recur as reserves. Oh, Pol Krinn is alive, Rokk & Lydda are parents like Garth & Imra.
7. Tim, Bart, Conner, & Cassie? Operating as YJ again.
8. Damien & Jon? SuperSons is enough.
9. Wolfman era Titans? Some our Outsiders, some are JL.
10. Donna Troy? Reset her origin to the Wolfman era Who is Donna Troy. It was perfect.
11. Earth 2? Big change in that there's no reason WWII had to have happened in the late 1930s/early 1940s. Just say it happened much more recently on their Earth without citing a number. The JSA Infinity cast, deaged somewhat but with prolonged longevity for the WWII era heroes. They have their Trinity same as ours, just older and mostly retired. Clark and Lois raised PG from her early teens, she calls them mom & dad, and he runs the Daily Star in Perry's stead. Diana? Queen of the Amazons after her mom leaves the throne to adventure with the JSAI under her own name, be there for her Lyta, and maybe marry Wildcat. Bruce? Keep the pre-Crisis history. He and Selina, wed, died, and a younger Helena is on the JSA & pursuing a law degree. JSA Infinity gets a series in their present, and an All-Star Squadron during their WWII. WWII and the events surrounding it would be largely unaltered, other than taking place years later.

That is all I can think of for now. In case you can't tell, I'm of the "grimdark is far too pervasive & overdone camp". That tone is fun when it is AN available flavor. It grows tiresome when it feels like the only flavor to be had.