Why so many NEW Batfamily members? and Harpers actual status..

[dietrich]

Yeah, agreed they should let him age.

But honestly right at the moment the official Batman timeline actually goes like this.

Batman has been operating for 5 years
(No wait Dr Manhattan)
Batman has been operating for 10 years
(No wait he's been operating since before 20 year old Astrid Arkham was born)
Batman has been operating in Gotham for 20 years.
(No wait he met Duke the first year he was Batman and Duke is only 16 and that would make him too old because Batman cannot be over 40, editorial hyperventilates)
Batman has been operating in Gotham for 10+/- 10 years.

Rebirth references have stuck Knightfall and No Man's Land back in Canon. That's two years to fit in during Tim's tenure.

Damian has aged three years, but Damian has also celebrated eight Christmases in Gotham and only one Birthday.

So in terms of narrative sense yeah, head canons are really all we got. Tim being only Robin for six months is yours, but it has no more stated in canon than my plus or minus 10 years thing. You've just worked it out from the selection of stupid, nonsensical numbers they throw at us that most fits your argument about Tim. Or are you really saying James "Tim-fan" Tynion's intention was to minimise Tim's importance to the canon?

i was talking about the time line since Damian arrived not stuff before then because your point was that one could fit in the things that happened since Damian came in a year which even with this being comics is ridiculous.
HC is all YOU've got I've got DC canon which states that Tim became Robin at age 13 somewhere along that line became RR because Damian took the mantle and Damian has been Robin for 3 years.

I suggest you put a pin in your HC till DC sorts out the continuity of messed up and erased characters 1st.

[Restingvoice]

I actually think the worst was putting Jason and Dick so close in age (DC has been trying to keep Dick younger to keep Bruce younger for a long time, no matter how little sense it made). So Dick was 16 when he started. And not Robin for very long. And many of us didn't like it. Don't know how writers felt about it, but it got reversed, and Dick is back to being a child when his parents died. Of course, that should have knock-on effects, particularly in his relationships to Alfred and Bruce, but it doesn't, really. Ric being part of that, of course.

Christmases and other holiday issues (and even seasons passing) must always be ignored. To otherwise invites insanity. Of course, repeatedly killing Santa as DC is wont to do also muddies things if you take it into account.

Dick's relationship with Bruce and Alfred is ignored because when New 52 made him 16 it was also ignored. The change only affects their relationship in the flashback story. In the present, they act as they've always been. It's weird if you think about it realistically, actually, because Dick was as close to Bruce in 5 years as he was in 20 years.

The most visible change is when Seeley and King wrote Grayson, they depict Dick and Bruce as brothers, while in Rebirth Batman and Nightwing, they depict them explicitly as father and son.

[Tzigone]

because your point was that one could fit in the things that happened since Damian came in a year which even with this being comics is ridiculous

Given how long Dick was 18 or Tim 15 (in previous continuities), it's really not ridiculous for comics.

they depict Dick and Bruce as brothers,

Seems like someone tried that in the old days at some point (pre-Crisis when Dick was in college?). Can't say I've ever embraced the idea.

[Swallowtail]

Oh my bad. What were you talking about with the ‘Tim doesn’t know Dick anymore. Same damn page’ stuff?

[dietrich]

Dick's relationship with Bruce and Alfred is ignored because when New 52 made him 16 it was also ignored. The change only affects their relationship in the flashback story. In the present, they act as they've always been. It's weird if you think about it realistically, actually, because Dick was as close to Bruce in 5 years as he was in 20 years.

The most visible change is when Seeley and King wrote Grayson, they depict Dick and Bruce as brothers, while in Rebirth Batman and Nightwing, they depict them explicitly as father and son.

I always felt that Dick and Bruce were more than just Father and son. They were also like brothers. Their relationship is different from Bruce and any other of his sons. They grew together. Dick having been there at the start of his journey. {I know Duke is the 1st batkid he met but he didn't become family like Dick.}

[dietrich]

Oh my bad. What were you talking about with the ‘Tim doesn’t know Dick anymore. Same damn page’ stuff?

Yeah sorry should have made it clearer.

[Restingvoice]

Seems like someone tried that in the old days at some point (pre-Crisis when Dick was in college?). Can't say I've ever embraced the idea.

I always felt that Dick and Bruce were more than just Father and son. They were also like brothers. Their relationship is different from Bruce and any other of his sons. They grew together. Dick having been there at the start of his journey. {I know Duke is the 1st batkid he met but he didn't become family like Dick.}

Yes. They're kinda... since the original depiction, it's always been mixed. There is no doubt that Bruce raised him and is in charge of him, but they also address each other like friends. Bruce doesn't look down on him, and Dick's never scared letting out what he thinks, even when he's like 8.

The father and son moment show up during the custody issue, on Dick's birthday, whenever they want to send a message for children readers, when Dick left for college, or when Bruce tried to school Dick about his bad girl love interest, but most of the time it's "chum".

Their complexity is why I like them so much. When written well.

I think it's also why it's so appealing for kids. Silver age Bruce is more of a friend than an authority figure.

[Aahz]

Given how long Dick was 18 or Tim 15 (in previous continuities), it's really not ridiculous for comics.

Dick probaly longer 15 (for at least something like 15 to 20 years in real time) than 18.

Tim actally aged 4 years over the span of a little bit more then 20 years real time, for a comic character that's not that slow.

[Tzigone]

Dick probaly longer 15 (for at least something like 15 to 20 years in real time) than 18.

Well, I know he wasn't a senior in high school long, since he was a junior 6 months before he graduated. I really don't know when he turned 15. I'm pretty sure I saw him driving (as Dick, not Robin) sometime in the 1950s, but don't recall when. I remember thinking he must be 15 and have a permit.

It really was funny how Dick (and other Teen Titans) just changed to grown-up-looking in art overnight.

Tim actally aged 4 years over the span of a little bit more then 20 years real time, for a comic character that's not that slow.

Yeah, but it's all bunched together. 13 and 14 passed quickly, then 15 stretched out. And did we lose 16 to one year later?

[Aahz]

Well, I know he wasn't a senior in high school long, since he was a junior 6 months before he graduated. I really don't know when he turned 15. I'm pretty sure I saw him driving (as Dick, not Robin) sometime in the 1950s, but don't recall when. I remember thinking he must be 15 and have a permit.

I think he was supposed to around that age since at least the start of his solo stories in Star Spangled Comics (It is pretty hard to really pin down how old he was supposed to be in his earliest stories). And only started to age in the final years of the silver age.

Yeah, but it's all bunched together. 13 and 14 passed quickly, then 15 stretched out. And did we lose 16 to one year later?

He was at least not really confirmed to be 15 until roughly the beginning of "No Man's Land".
And he had his 16th birthday around the time of "Hush".

Btw. I actually think the rate at which Tim aged in the real world was Ok, they just let the time pass to fast in the comics. If they had Tim age at the rate they had the time pass in the comics, he would have aged at least twice at fast, and that would imo been way to fast.

[Tzigone]

He was at least not really confirmed to be 15 until roughly the beginning of "No Man's Land".

He had a permit, so I presumed 15 at the beginning of his solo series. I know he had a special license later, when his dad got home. Also, I know there was a reference to him being a sophomore somewhere in there, but can't recall where. I may just be thinking of his test when he went back to school (and saw Ives again) and that was way later.

Btw. I actually think the rate at which Tim aged in the real world was Ok, they just let the time pass to fast in the comics. If they had Tim age at the rate they had the time pass in the comics, he would have aged at least twice at fast, and that would imo been way to fast.

Don't quite understand what you are saying. Anyway, the first few years post-Crisis seemed to me to moving at almost real-time, which I agree is too fast.

[MajorHoy]

How about Proto the Bat-Bot or Mogo the Bat-Ape?

Mogo!

[Restingvoice]

Mogo!

We have a menagerie in the Batcave. Bring Mogo back.

[lemonpeace]

#NotMyMogo