Zoom, Ink, and Black Label

[Frontier]

The point he makes (from my understanding) is that there isn't really much of a point to make these YA books based on established characters. Since the Fans of these characters wont like radically different takes, and for new readers (outside of the existing reader base) might not buy a book with such a character, since they think they would to read other stuff first to under stand it.

As counter example he points at "Primer" an Kids-OGN by DC, that is not based on a pre existing character and is currently one of the best selling DC-Graphic Novels on Amazon.

I dunno, I feel like different takes on established characters (while still relatively keeping the core intact) can appeal to new readers enough.

At least ideally.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Beast Boy doesn't have any friends? Is there a debate over that from his OGN or something? I don't get the reference.



Agreed with all this.



Exactly. I hate Damian Wayne. I do. I could do a very nerd-ragey post on how much I don't like Damian (but I won't). And yet I can't deny the easy corporate sale and branding "Son of Batman" is. It's one of those easy to digest concepts that just works (much as I wish it didn't in this case). "Teen Batman" is a similar sort of concept and brand - the hero you love, but younger. I grew up on the Muppet Babies, I remember Young Indiana Jones, Young Sherlock Holmes, Smallville and Gotham were tv shows, comic book fans remember a time when Superboy was just a younger Clark Kent. There's probably dozens more examples out there of taking an established character back to their youth, and often times they're even good.



I don't know about pushing Future State into Earth One. Earth One is already kind of it's own sub-multiverse brand rather than one earth as is, and is meant to be it's own separate thing.



Not knowing one thing about this character, agreed. We're not living in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 any more, Muslim superheroes shouldn't be something DC needs to be wary of.



I don't think so. He was saying that the YA books should be new characters, because changing the old ones wouldn't fly for...some reason he never gave. Even if the changes were minor.



I thought that was a bad point too. Like, looking at the images of these YA OGNs, nothing about them screams "You need to know their full 80+ year publishing histories to appreciate this!"



Who? No really, is there heck being raised over a new character or something?



I think with the MCU set to debut Miss Marvel AT&T and WB will pressure DC into doing more with their POC and youth characters like Sharif.



Again, there's that "need" question that doesn't really help. Do you "need" a Batman franchise? No, you need food, water, air, and shelter. Everything else is just a question of want or desire. There's never a need in fiction, but is there a desire or want there? I don't know. But I do know this - a teenage Batman is probably more popular than any of the "popular" teen characters in his franchise. Remember, we're discussing the YA audience, and to most of the world outside of these CBR forums Batman is just much more popular than the rest of his Batfamily. People who would pass over a Dick Grayson or Jason Todd or Tim Drake book or would pass over a Barbara Gordon or Cass Cain or Stephanie Brown book, or Harper Row or Duke Thomas book, would still stop and take notice of a Teen Batman book properly marketed. There's a definite market there for more takes on Batman then there is for his army of sidekicks and partners. Especially to start with - you need to draw them into Batman before you can expect them to check out his wider universe of characters.

Also, the only "need" WB cares about is the need to make a profit, and it a teen Batman book would sell then there's the "need" fulfilled right there.

And besides, why not?


Also I would like to point out I've never said that all those characters I listed shouldn't be given a book or couldn't strike it off with young adults - they should and they can. I was merely explaining that their existence in no way negates the possible value of a teen Batman and shouldn't be used as an argument not to do it.



It's superhero fiction, of course he'll fight crime. But a book can still do that and be just as much about those other elements as well. Especially if that's what the audience wants to see. It's broadening the character to include those elements more in some takes, not restrictive and removing other elements. Batman will always be punching out his rogues gallery, that's too baked into his DNA.



True. I mean Superman works, whether as Superboy or just doing stuff in Smallville, and it's not important what age Wonder Woman leaves the island, but it's hard to make stories pushing back Green Arrow's origin (the five years on an island tends to naturally age him up) or Barry's. I mean you can ditch the test pilot part of Hal's origin so he can get the ring as a teen and not change much. Martian Manhunter no. Aquaman, I don't know, maybe? Hawkman and Hawkwoman might be hard, though I could see an angle if just for one story.

It's interesting thinking about which heroes could or couldn't be reworked as teens without changing too much.



Agreed. I obviously love Batman and want more books, but I also love Superman and Wonder Woman too. And while other characters interest me less, they're somebody's favorites and deserve more books too.



Scott Snyder do a lot of teen books? And agreed, slice of life/romance are natural fits with superheroes.



Again, agreed. Representation is something that clearly we needed more of - the world would be a less screwy place right now if earlier generations had gotten used to representation and diversity as kids and teens.

In Kami Garcia's Beast Boy graphic novel, BB gets some friends in high school. I was referring to that. It's not really controversial but it was the easiest reference to make.

Scott Snyder was a novelist turned comic writer. He also held workshops on adapting to comics. So him teaching the YA novelists how superhero comics work felt like a good idea.

For the Hawks you could just set it on Thanagar as a prequel.

[Vakanai]

In Kami Garcia's Beast Boy graphic novel, BB gets some friends in high school. I was referring to that. It's not really controversial but it was the easiest reference to make.

Scott Snyder was a novelist turned comic writer. He also held workshops on adapting to comics. So him teaching the YA novelists how superhero comics work felt like a good idea.

For the Hawks you could just set it on Thanagar as a prequel.

Ah, I didn't know that about Snyder - I also assumed you meant he'd do a workshop for comic writers, but teaching YA novelists how to do comics makes a lot of sense.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

So what is the appeal of Black Label? Beyond Hill House comics, the Sandman Universe imprint, and the remnants of Vertigo?

Most of the comics they have don't feel that different from mainstream DC comics.

[Vakanai]

So what is the appeal of Black Label? Beyond Hill House comics, the Sandman Universe imprint, and the remnants of Vertigo?

Most of the comics they have don't feel that different from mainstream DC comics.

I only read the first issue of Superman Year One (meh), first issue of Joker/Harley: Criminal Sanity (interesting, need to get the trade some time), and all of Harleen (this should be regarded as an evergreen classic from now on, so good!). I can safely say none of those stories could fit in mainstream DC's continuity. You couldn't tell those stories in any of their ongoings. I can't speak for those other books, but the ones I read rightly belonged outside of their mainstream series.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I only read the first issue of Superman Year One (meh), first issue of Joker/Harley: Criminal Sanity (interesting, need to get the trade some time), and all of Harleen (this should be regarded as an evergreen classic from now on, so good!). I can safely say none of those stories could fit in mainstream DC's continuity. You couldn't tell those stories in any of their ongoings. I can't speak for those other books, but the ones I read rightly belonged outside of their mainstream series.

I read the Question one and I thought it was fine. It didn't feel that different but maybe I'm biased.

I liked Criminal Sanity.

[Vakanai]

I read the Question one and I thought it was fine. It didn't feel that different but maybe I'm biased.

I liked Criminal Sanity.

I think the thing is, whether they're "different" or not, Black Label is what DC wants to be their prestige book line. Basically it's a line whose goals are churning out more All Star Supermans and Batman White Knights. Clearly they're very hit and miss with that goal, and you don't have to make something that different from what would fit in continuity, they're not clear Elseworld stories, just that they're marketed as more mature (whether they are is subjective, but they're meant to be) higher quality creator driven stories. So being that different from continuity isn't the goal - some are going to be closer or further from "normal" - but their intent is somewhat different from the ongoings, and the rules/ratings are looser. It's a line that can get away with a bit darker or riskier subject matter, or being further out there than most depictions.

I think that should clear it up...

That's good! Any thoughts you'd like to share about it?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I think the thing is, whether they're "different" or not, Black Label is what DC wants to be their prestige book line. Basically it's a line whose goals are churning out more All Star Supermans and Batman White Knights. Clearly they're very hit and miss with that goal, and you don't have to make something that different from what would fit in continuity, they're not clear Elseworld stories, just that they're marketed as more mature (whether they are is subjective, but they're meant to be) higher quality creator driven stories. So being that different from continuity isn't the goal - some are going to be closer or further from "normal" - but their intent is somewhat different from the ongoings, and the rules/ratings are looser. It's a line that can get away with a bit darker or riskier subject matter, or being further out there than most depictions.

I think that should clear it up...

That's good! Any thoughts you'd like to share about it?

Here are some old thoughts I posted back with issue 5-

"After reading Garcia's Joker/Harley series, I like its take on Joker and Harley but I can't see it's take on Harley becoming the classic Harley Quinn. She often reads like an older Barbara Gordon who never became Batgirl. But there are 4 more issues left so maybe she will be a take on Harley Quinn than the take.

I'm interested in this take of Harley Quinn/Joker going up against Pattinson's Batman. They just feel like they would fit his take to me (or rather what I think his take is gonna be)"

Fun fact- both Harley Quinn and Barbara Gordon shared a voice actor in Tara Strong. So she'd be a good pick if this ever becomes an animated movie. This might've been interesting for the BEWARE THE BATMAN cartoon. But it would have been aged down.

Despite it being on Cartoon Network, I felt that take on Bruce could've worked as a CW lead.

I have to reread the series once issue 9 hits to see how it holds up.

[Vakanai]

Here are some old thoughts I posted back with issue 5-

"After reading Garcia's Joker/Harley series, I like its take on Joker and Harley but I can't see it's take on Harley becoming the classic Harley Quinn. She often reads like an older Barbara Gordon who never became Batgirl. But there are 4 more issues left so maybe she will be a take on Harley Quinn than the take.

I'm interested in this take of Harley Quinn/Joker going up against Pattinson's Batman. They just feel like they would fit his take to me (or rather what I think his take is gonna be)"

Fun fact- both Harley Quinn and Barbara Gordon shared a voice actor in Tara Strong. So she'd be a good pick if this ever becomes an animated movie. This might've been interesting for the BEWARE THE BATMAN cartoon. But it would have been aged down.

Despite it being on Cartoon Network, I felt that take on Bruce could've worked as a CW lead.

I have to reread the series once issue 9 hits to see how it holds up.

It's not done yet?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

It's not done yet?

We are on issue 8.

[Vakanai]

We are on issue 8.

Out of 9? Wonder if covid delayed it some...

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Out of 9? Wonder if covid delayed it some...

According to Comixology, it is going up to 9. So probably Covid delayed it.

[Vakanai]

According to Comixology, it is going up to 9. So probably Covid delayed it.

They might be talking about the one-shot Joker/Harley: Criminal Sanity-Secret Files, because the hardcover up for preorder only mentions 8 issues plus that.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

They might be talking about the one-shot Joker/Harley: Criminal Sanity-Secret Files, because the hardcover up for preorder only mentions 8 issues plus that.

Oh ok. I guess it's an ongoing.

[WebLurker]

They might be talking about the one-shot Joker/Harley: Criminal Sanity-Secret Files, because the hardcover up for preorder only mentions 8 issues plus that.

Was the comic any good?