Zoom, Ink, and Black Label

[Aahz]

For every Gotham High book or whatever you get Superman Smashes the Klan, Batman Overdrive, Under the Moonlight A Catwoman Tale, Batman Nightwalker (those last three working as quite workable origin stories for Elseworlds really).

Superman Smashes the Klan and Batman Overdrive are iirc from the Kids Imprint and not from the YA one.

Which ones go to far for you?

Gotham High would be the biggest one.

But in that line you see in general the tendency to reimagine the characters as high school students, with a lot of teenage drama and either remove or massivly reduce the Superhero aspect (While the Kids book focus usually more on fun Superhero adventure). And you definitely have a better mix of Superhero Stuff and teenage drama.

[J. D. Guy]

Keeping the characters more in line with mainline comics and more focus on superhero stuff (or do original YA stuff).

I think some of these books just go to far from the source material.

I think if you want to get new readers interested in these characters, they should be able to pick up the mainline comics and find something that is at least similar.

Conversely, I have been enjoying these forays with these familiar old characters being brought into and reimagined with new stories, builds, and territories. It's been pretty cool, in my opinion.

[Vakanai]

Superman Smashes the Klan and Batman Overdrive are iirc from the Kids Imprint and not from the YA one.

True, I didn't check that. Thanks for pointing that out!

Seriously hope they make more for Kids stuff. I mean Superman Smashes the Klan is an instant evergreen classic in my opinion. It's just so good.

Gotham High would be the biggest one.

Knew it. But, I still think one take like Gotham High is okay. It's not an ongoing, it's not a common take, and most of the others in the line that I'm aware of work as closer to the usual takes, just skewed more teenagery (which is a given for YA).

[Vakanai]

Conversely, I have been enjoying these forays with these familiar old characters being brought into and reimagined with new stories, builds, and territories. It's been pretty cool, in my opinion.

Me too. The Catwoman one in particular impressed me a lot from the YA line. Very modern and relevant, very sober and serious, yet also a lot of heart and could work as an origin story for almost any continuity without really messing up anything classic. It's a seriously solid read, and if I ever learn of a sequel for it it'll be a day one buy for me. I also really like Batman Nightwalker, although it's not quite on the same level for me.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more talk about these books.

[Frontier]

I've been enjoying the kids and young adult books a lot too .

(Gotham High was a bit much for me too but I think on a general basis, even when they lean more into teen drama or coming-of-age, they still tend to be true enough to the roots and heroic aspects of the characters).

[Aahz]

[Vakanai]

Watching this video, I don't get the point - like, existing DC/Marvel superheroes shouldn't have kid friendly or YA aimed stories? I don't agree with that.

Edit: Not trying to dismiss the post, honestly not sure how that video's argument is applied here.

[J. D. Guy]

Watching this video, I don't get the point - like, existing DC/Marvel superheroes shouldn't have kid friendly or YA aimed stories? I don't agree with that.

Edit: Not trying to dismiss the post, honestly not sure how that video's argument is applied here.

Honestly, I'm too turned off by the video title alone to really want to watch it, since I'm not in the mood to entertain something with that kind of presumptuous-sounding title. And based on your post alone, even though it didn't go into too deep a detail on the video, I'd say me passing on the video was relatively warranted.

[HsssH]

Didn't watch it either, but I guess it is a weird point to make considering that at one point most of the mainstream comics shifted from kids to adults, but they can't switch back because...?

[J. D. Guy]

Didn't watch it either, but I guess it is a weird point to make considering that at one point most of the mainstream comics shifted from kids to adults, but they can't switch back because...?

Yep. That's another thing that throws things off. So many forget, pretend they don't know, or genuinely do not realize that comics, particular US comics, were conceived as disposable material for children.

It's kinda part of this bigger thing I've noticed and conceptualized in general as I've gotten older: kid's aren't really appreciated/respected for being kids. (Bunch of other stuff in there, including the socially and culturally accepted pushes and strives to be "an adult" that kids themselves adhere to, and so on. But that's a tangent I've not fully formed relay-able thoughts on.)

[WebLurker]

All I'm getting from this guy is "I don't like this, therefore it's a mistake." Not a good argument. (Also, I think he's missing he point of these YA graphic novels.)

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I get the point but I'd say he's looking at the wrong audience. YA books shouldn't have to appeal to the Wednesday warrior crowd.

[Vakanai]

Honestly, I'm too turned off by the video title alone to really want to watch it, since I'm not in the mood to entertain something with that kind of presumptuous-sounding title. And based on your post alone, even though it didn't go into too deep a detail on the video, I'd say me passing on the video was relatively warranted.

To be fair, I was just making a reply on what I think the poster wanted to comment on - the video itself didn't solely deal with "don't make these heroes for kids" but also included thing like don't try and make romance books with these characters on so on. Not that he was against books for kids or romance books, just that they should make new characters for it I guess?

But honestly...it just wasn't a good argument. He spent no time really explaining why it doesn't work in his opinion. Even though the cover image for the image video shows Gotham High, he doesn't break down the book and explain how this is wrong - he never mentions that book, or even any these books (I mean, Gotham High is the most extreme case example so you could try and paint an argument using that book alone, although I'd just hold up Overdrive, Nightwalker, and Under the Moon as counterexamples, but the point is he didn't even try). The only book he mentions is Primer as an example of how you should make superhero books for kids - I've never read Primer and he went into zero details about it, but I'm guessing it's a kid's superhero book. Basically his whole argument seemed to be, since this book is doing so extremely well on Amazon, this is proof that is how you make superhero books for kids/YA, rather than adapting existing characters for that audience. Even though, in my opinion, that example of Primer doing well doesn't really negate making Batman or Superman or Wonder Woman books for the kid/YA market.

At least, that's what I got from the video. I mean, it wasn't that bad, he didn't come off as a super entitled toxic fan in my opinion, just that his argument didn't seem convincing or all that thought out.

Didn't watch it either, but I guess it is a weird point to make considering that at one point most of the mainstream comics shifted from kids to adults, but they can't switch back because...?

This too. Personally as he was talking I kept flashing back to all the DCAU shows I watched as a child. They've worked for children before.

Yep. That's another thing that throws things off. So many forget, pretend they don't know, or genuinely do not realize that comics, particular US comics, were conceived as disposable material for children.

It's kinda part of this bigger thing I've noticed and conceptualized in general as I've gotten older: kid's aren't really appreciated/respected for being kids. (Bunch of other stuff in there, including the socially and culturally accepted pushes and strives to be "an adult" that kids themselves adhere to, and so on. But that's a tangent I've not fully formed relay-able thoughts on.)

True. I mean, most of us can appreciate that it's a good thing that this medium and these characters matured to where us adults can still enjoy them, but there should still and always be versions a kid can access and appreciate. It was theirs first, there's no need to take these characters away from them. Part of being an adult is we should have already learned how to share.

All I'm getting from this guy is "I don't like this, therefore it's a mistake." Not a good argument. (Also, I think he's missing he point of these YA graphic novels.)

Agreed. I mean, I understand I'm not the target audience here, even though I've read and greatly enjoyed several of these books. But I also understand the point of these books - the adult comic book collector/buyer is an aging, dwindling market, and if they don't get new fans buying books then the long standing superhero in print tradition dies with us. Whether single issue monthlies continue, or they shift to OGNs only, or they go full digital, or whatever form superhero books might take in the future, if there's no new fans to buy them then there is no future. And as a fan, I can't help but feel that's something of a loss.

[Aahz]

The point he makes (from my understanding) is that there isn't really much of a point to make these YA books based on established characters. Since the Fans of these characters wont like radically different takes, and for new readers (outside of the existing reader base) might not buy a book with such a character, since they think they would to read other stuff first to under stand it.

As counter example he points at "Primer" an Kids-OGN by DC, that is not based on a pre existing character and is currently one of the best selling DC-Graphic Novels on Amazon.

[Aahz]

But honestly...it just wasn't a good argument. He spent no time really explaining why it doesn't work in his opinion. Even though the cover image for the image video shows Gotham High, he doesn't break down the book and explain how this is wrong - he never mentions that book, or even any these books (I mean, Gotham High is the most extreme case example so you could try and paint an argument using that book alone, although I'd just hold up Overdrive, Nightwalker, and Under the Moon as counterexamples, but the point is he didn't even try). The only book he mentions is Primer as an example of how you should make superhero books for kids - I've never read Primer and he went into zero details about it, but I'm guessing it's a kid's superhero book. Basically his whole argument seemed to be, since this book is doing so extremely well on Amazon, this is proof that is how you make superhero books for kids/YA, rather than adapting existing characters for that audience. Even though, in my opinion, that example of Primer doing well doesn't really negate making Batman or Superman or Wonder Woman books for the kid/YA market.

The guy makes like 2-3 short videos a day, so usually doesn't go into much detail.
He discussed iirc several of the OGN on this channel, and in case of Primer he did a review together with his (preteen?) daughter, who really liked the book.

He is or was comic retailer and mostly looking on stuff from a business perspective.