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  1. #151
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Y'know, I almost kinda wish Scott wasn't likely taking the fall for Cassie and the entire heist, if only so Cassie can really understand the consequences of her actions.

    Cassie was the one who made the choice to work with a known Supervillain like the Power Broker to get powers again and then decided to break into Cross's building which, bad guy or not, is still breaking the law.

    I mean, I like Cassie and a part of me doesn't want anything bad to happen to her, but most of the current situation can be traced back to her, even if it can also be traced back to Cross and how Scott handled things once he saved her. But she still made her own choices.

    It make sense that Scott would try and protect her though, since she's his daughter and he doesn't want her to have to suffer for dumb mistakes which he probably blames himself for, but I'm just not sure how I feel about her also getting away with what she did. Maybe seeing her dad go to prison for her sake will be enough, but I just feel like she also needs to suffer some real consequences for what happened.

  2. #152
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    Eh, everyone in this book needs to face consequences to be fair. Scott probably deserves it the most (it interesting on how ALMOST every bad thing can be linked to him screwing up at some point during the series), but no one should walk away scott-free (pun was not intended at first).

  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    What hasn't Spencer done to make Scott look like a screw-up? Even in this issue, Cassie was doing more in the fight then he was .
    I still enjoy my read. no one has done better with Scott (except Michelinie, his creator). and I've been reading a long long time. I see Scott as more careless than being a screw-up. he lives in the moment and often tries to find a silver lining in tragedy. if you were to actually recount his exploits to a non-reader, it would sound like Scott is constantly failing up. look at how he blundered into getting hired by Tony Stark in the first issue. but, instead of living a cushy life as a stark employee, he followed his impulses. he's carefree enough to start fresh in a new place w/ no assurances. and look how it turns out for him. by pure happenstance, a golden age heroine turned bank manager takes a liking to him. she gambled it all on someone that the reader would see as a huge risk. she bankrolls his hobby. does it seem like Scott takes his job very seriously? wasn't it Grizzly and Machinesmith doing most of the manual labor? I recall him partying a few times around Miami. I recall him sleeping with a, by most accounts, out of his league supervillainess. he fails up. Cassie is kidnapped by an old enemy of Scott. it results in Peggy thinking that he's a great father/that she had misjudged him. even the ex he ran out on came back to him. he's not a screw up. he's a man-child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I do kinda hope Darla tries to turn herself in so Scott isn't the only one who goes down for the heist, especially since she's partially responsible for his getting caught and arrested, but I can see Scott telling her not to so he's the only one who has to pay for the heist.
    I hope that Darla doesn't. for a real world equivalent, she's Taylor Swift. it would be ridiculously stupid for her to throw it all away. she has bad instincts (first Johnny Storm and then Scott; double goose egg). and she didn't steal anything or use the Hench App.

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Y'know, I almost kinda wish Scott wasn't likely taking the fall for Cassie and the entire heist, if only so Cassie can really understand the consequences of her actions.
    that will be accomplished by her seeing Scott pay. in some ways, they are the same person. both are impulsive and don't realize their recklessness until it hurts someone close to them (ex. Cassie's stepdad being hospitalized). Scott should do everything it takes to keep Cassie out of the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Cassie was the one who made the choice to work with a known Supervillain like the Power Broker to get powers again and then decided to break into Cross's building which, bad guy or not, is still breaking the law.
    she's a kid

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I like Cassie and a part of me doesn't want anything bad to happen to her, but most of the current situation can be traced back to her, even if it can also be traced back to Cross and how Scott handled things once he saved her. But she still made her own choices.
    or it can all be traced back to Cross and his mistakes. if you take Scott out of the equation, Cross is still having innocent people murdered to keep himself alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It make sense that Scott would try and protect her though, since she's his daughter and he doesn't want her to have to suffer for dumb mistakes which he probably blames himself for, but I'm just not sure how I feel about her also getting away with what she did. Maybe seeing her dad go to prison for her sake will be enough, but I just feel like she also needs to suffer some real consequences for what happened.
    I get it. but consider her environment. her uncle tony has gotten away with murder several times. tony stark has never served time in an actual prison; as far as I can tell.

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    Don't read Captain Falcon. Didn't do much for me so I wouldn't know.
    I'm talking about the issue of Astonishing Ant-Man in which Cap-Falc appeared.

    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    Ok, so he's on Hill's s**t list (I imagine it's incredibly long with how bad Hill is). How does it stop him from getting help from Sam?
    I would imagine that Sam has his hands full with his own enemies. this criticism could be applied to any dangerous situation any other solo hero finds themselves in. plus, we haven't seen the actual trial. Sam might show up to repay that favor.

    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    No. I never read the stuff where Cassie got murdered. Heard it was badly written but not in a must see it to believe it way like Avengers Vs. X-Men, Holy Terror, or Countdown so I ignored it.
    doom killed her. and the Avengers just let him leave. no follow-up. Scott was just left to mourn and drink excessively until Reed Richards finally called him up; to teach the Future Foundation.

    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    I don't begrudge Spencer for going this direction, but after reading Fraction's FF run and his development with Scott so recently, it's really hard for me to buy into this direction very well. It feels like we went backwards instead of forwards.
    Scott took on Doom, sure. but he still made his share of mistakes in those issues. that was him crawling out of a deep dark hole. it's no surprise that it ended on an uplifting beat. Spencer's series is more about Scott's life returning back to normal; leveling out.

    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    It's hard to tell honestly looking at the scene again closely (though I do hope he is dead). Though I will go with you possibly on Power Broker calling the cops if he was keeping an eye on the situation (I have no idea how he would though).
    if Augustine had died, there would have been a much angrier fight between he and Scott. plus Scott would have had a bigger reaction to it. but we'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    I've noticed. He's selfishly putting her danger by not telling anyone and not being there to help her recover mentally after the Heart of Hush-esque event.
    it was necessary to get her down the path to becoming Stinger. she'll get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    Ok... but that still doesn't explain why he didn't any of the superhero community about this. Just because his daughter is "safe", doesn't mean no one would want to know.
    he's not on the Avengers' speed dial. they aren't going around following up on every villain's resurrection. I can point to other resurrections that didn't gain notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    So... same as the entire run then? He's done a pretty bad job at protecting her.
    she's alive isn't she?

    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    Never read his origin stuff. This is my first real Ant-Man series in general (I included the six issues from the last one as part of the same series), though not the first time I've read a series with Scott in it.
    well take my word for it (or go look up Marvel Premiere 47). this was Scott's plan from the origin story. finding the Ant-Man suit is what kept him from going through with it, in the original tale.

  6. #156
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    I hope that Darla doesn't. for a real world equivalent, she's Taylor Swift. it would be ridiculously stupid for her to throw it all away. she has bad instincts (first Johnny Storm and then Scott; double goose egg). and she didn't steal anything or use the Hench App.
    If she was willing to break the law to help Scott, and is partially responsible for his getting caught, then the least she can do is try to turn herself in. She probably won't end up facing any actual charges, and I'm sure Scott will make sure of that, but I would hope she would at least attempt to do so to make up for what happened.

    It would be the heroic thing to do.

    I thought she only "used to be famous" ?

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    If she was willing to break the law to help Scott, and is partially responsible for his getting caught, then the least she can do is try to turn herself in. She probably won't end up facing any actual charges, and I'm sure Scott will make sure of that, but I would hope she would at least attempt to do so to make up for what happened.

    It would be the heroic thing to do.

    I thought she only "used to be famous" ?
    :shrugs: all I know is that she was on top when she was running with the Future Foundation (and her career started at age 14/7 #1 hits). the reality tv show was part of keeping her name in the public consciousness. maybe not Taylor Swift. maybe more Lady Gaga (or Katy Perry). I think being a superhero hurt her cred; took away too much of her time from touring.

    Last edited by Michael Watkins; 07-20-2016 at 08:20 PM.

  8. #158
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    doom killed her. and the Avengers just let him leave. no follow-up. Scott was just left to mourn and drink excessively until Reed Richards finally called him up; to teach the Future Foundation.
    Ok, so it was badly written. Good to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Scott took on Doom, sure. but he still made his share of mistakes in those issues. that was him crawling out of a deep dark hole. it's no surprise that it ended on an uplifting beat. Spencer's series is more about Scott's life returning back to normal; leveling out.
    Oh more certainly Scott did stupid things during the FF run. No doubt about that, but it felt it like he was moving beyond that or getting better. So again, it still feels like going backwards than forwards if this is considered "normal" for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    it was necessary to get her down the path to becoming Stinger.
    By having the character be written stupidly so that the plot can work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    she's alive isn't she?
    Whoa... just got Undertale flashbacks of Sans talking to the main character about how well he's done at protecting them.



    But anyways, I think we're going in circles here. To sum up, I think the ending raised way too many questions, but all we can do now is speculate until the last issues come out and we can make a final judgment on this ending then. Hopefully it works and everything comes to a close with a good conclusion. please end well!!
    Last edited by InformationGeek; 07-20-2016 at 08:20 PM.

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    By having the character be written stupidly so that the plot can work?
    I dunno. it seems to efficiently tie everything together. Spencer reintroduces Cross, Scott's first villain. Cross stelas Cassie's heart; depowering Cassie. Spencer introduces Power Broker and his Hench App. Cross develops rival app. Power Broker, to take out the competition, empowers Cassie and sends her after Cross. Scott has to save Cassie from walking into a trap; he's partially responsible for. all of it is connected. that would seem to be good storytelling; even if it requires the protagonist to fumble along the way. Cassie gets her powers and her pride back; showing her father that she can hold her own as a powered combatant. Cross gets his comeuppance through his son being hurt (consider that he threatened Scott and Erica Sondheim's children). and, finally, there are consequences for Scott; now suddenly back where he began (on the wrong side of the law).

    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    But anyways, I think we're going in circles here. To sum up, I think the ending raised way too many questions, but all we can do now is speculate until the last issues come out and we can make a final judgment on this ending then. Hopefully it works and everything comes to a close with a good conclusion. please end well!!
    no such thing as too many questions. it's what keeps people reading.

  10. #160
    Incredible Member Xhatch's Avatar
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    Well we know Scott's going to jail, but we still have to see the trial of the Marvel century. I'm hoping for a series of surprise witnesses, each more surprising than the last! And a good lawyer. Pitty She-Hulk's in a coma as she might have represented Scott. But there's always Matt Murdock!

  11. #161
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xhatch View Post
    Well we know Scott's going to jail, but we still have to see the trial of the Marvel century. I'm hoping for a series of surprise witnesses, each more surprising than the last! And a good lawyer. Pitty She-Hulk's in a coma as she might have represented Scott. But there's always Matt Murdock!
    I thought the trial of the Marvel century was Hawkeye killing Hulk?

  12. #162
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xhatch View Post
    Well we know Scott's going to jail, but we still have to see the trial of the Marvel century. I'm hoping for a series of surprise witnesses, each more surprising than the last! And a good lawyer. Pitty She-Hulk's in a coma as she might have represented Scott. But there's always Matt Murdock!
    Matt is currently a prosecutor though.

    And, honestly, I don't think there's anyone in the Superhero community who'll be willing to defend Scott at this point .

  13. #163

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    I'm more curious about why he doesn't have his powers. or why he isn't using them.

  14. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Matt is currently a prosecutor though.

    And, honestly, I don't think there's anyone in the Superhero community who'll be willing to defend Scott at this point .
    Carol Danvers would; if he agrees with her new mission statement.

  15. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    Tony Stark sued him when he was inverted. Shouldn't he be over that by now since he's back to normal? He also teamed up with current Captain America. Doesn't he owe him a favor or something? Also, why would he be on the outs with the Avengers or the superhero community anyways? He just got done filling in for the Fantastic Four.

    Though that explains it with Cross Tech.



    When did Augustine call the cops? Also, isn't Augustine dead now? Shot by Crossfire?

    Wait, why wouldn't his father being alive not be public knowledge? Didn't anyone report that after rescuing Cassie to the cops? Why didn't Scott at least warn his ex-wife about them so they could be cautious. If not, why didn't Scott pass that info along to any of his buddies when they weren't busy?! A villain coming back from the dead, especially one that harmed his daughter, would be a good idea to let others know about.



    Outside of the writer needing the story to go in a certain direction, I can't think of any reason why either. Lastly, shouldn't Darla get arrested as well?
    Spencer said that evrything Tony did to Scott while inverted was something that he'd do either way. He also got a restraining order against Scott.

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