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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Calm down, no one is insulting anyone here.I don't much care who said tbh, it's more the sentiment that X-men should be changed to be more inclusive that we are criticizing, no one is attacking her.Heck most don't even know it's her who said it.

    You are the one who seems to have an "irrational" belief that people and/or specific sites are trying to create outrage.We're just here to discuss the silly sentiment, not make accusations.
    And Marvel Studios came up w/ New Warriors, I wouldn't put in behind them to deem X-men outdated as a brand name.

    We're all just having fun on a bad take regardless of how good the person who had it, it's all good.No harm or hate intended towards her.
    The only reason this is being talked about now instead of 2 years ago is because of BS clickbait sites. A simple google search of "Victoria Alonso X-Men" will show numerous articles from the last few days with headlines like:

    Anti-X-Men Producer Gets Promoted At Marvel Studios

    Marvel Studios Promotes Executive Who Believes The X-Men Name Is “Outdated”

    Just call him Wokerine: New executive of Marvel universe says studio could drop the 'Men' from 'X-Men' over concerns the title is not 'inclusive'

    Marvel promotes executive who suggested dropping 'Men' from 'X-Men' title: 'I think it's outdated'

    These stories are only running because Alonso has been promoted, and the usual suspects are making noise about it. If you really want to discuss this you should consider the context and background of what was actually said.

    BTW, regarding New Warriors:

    1. Marvel Studios did not "come up w/ New Warriors" NW was created in the comics back in 1989 and received their own title in 1990.
    2. There was a pilot for a New Warriors TV show, but it was made by Marvel Television. Marvel Television is a separate company from Marvel Studios. Alonso works for Marvel Studios and has no connection to Marvel Televison.
    3. I am assuming you are referring to the press release of the line up that included characters such as Snowflake and Safe Space. While this release did have criticism, the title itself was cancelled during the COVID period and no issues ever came out.

    So Marvel Studios didn't have anything to do with New Warriors, and the thing that upset some people was never actually published.

    I see nothing wrong with providing facts and context to the discussion. And when the discussion is taking quotes and twisting them to promote bad faith arguments, facts and clarification are more important than ever.
    Last edited by Rincewind; 09-24-2021 at 12:39 PM.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    The only reason this is being talked about now instead of 2 years ago is because of BS clickbait sites. A simple google search of "Victoria Alonso X-Men" will show numerous articles from the last few days with headlines like:

    Anti-X-Men Producer Gets Promoted At Marvel Studios

    Marvel Studios Promotes Executive Who Believes The X-Men Name Is “Outdated”

    Just call him Wokerine: New executive of Marvel universe says studio could drop the 'Men' from 'X-Men' over concerns the title is not 'inclusive'

    Marvel promotes executive who suggested dropping 'Men' from 'X-Men' title: 'I think it's outdated'

    These stories are only running because Alonso has been promoted, and the usual suspects are making noise about it. If you really want to discuss this you should consider the context and background of what was actually said.

    BTW, regarding New Warriors:

    1. Marvel Studios did not "come up w/ New Warriors" NW was created in the comics back in 1989 and received their own title in 1990.
    2. There was a pilot for a New Warriors TV show, but it was made by Marvel Television. Marvel Television is a separate company from Marvel Studios. Alonso works for Marvel Studios and has no connection to Marvel Televison.
    3. I am assuming you are referring to the press release of the line up that included characters such as Snowflake and Safe Space. While this release did have criticism, the title itself was cancelled during the COVID period and no issues ever came out.

    So Marvel Studios didn't have anything to do with New Warriors, and the thing that upset some people was never actually published.

    I see nothing wrong with providing facts and context to the discussion. And when the discussion is taking quotes and twisting them to promote bad faith arguments, facts and clarification are more important than ever.
    It's been brought to attention because of her promotion.This thread isn't about her, it's about the notion that X-men is not "inclusive" enough which she did say.

    I'm talking about the press release w/ snowflake, etc.And it doesn't matter that it wasn't released, the idea reaching that stage itself shows Marvel has done stuff which we all know is absurd.

    Again no one is upset, we're making lighthearted fun of dumb takes(X-men is not a good enough name) and ideas(New Warriors).

    Again you are making this thread about the person who said it, I'm saying it's about the take in general.I'm glad you provided context but you seem to have a set perogative in what you think is BS and what's not.Provide facts, you're throwing your opinion in as well and calling it "context".

    For e.x. just say that sites are making a big deal out of this as all sites always do.This isn't something new or only done by "Anti-SJW's".Every site clickbaits.And of course they are being run because she's promoted, same way actors past comes up when they get a big role.That's how it works, you acting like everyone's gone after her specifically for no reason whereas there is nothing happening that's out of the blue here.

    Also relax, this is just a fun discussion.Not an attack on anyone.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    It's been brought to attention because of her promotion.This thread isn't about her, it's about the notion that X-men is not "inclusive" enough which she did say.
    Your original question was "So what's this about Marvel promoting someone who suggested they change the name of the X-Men team so it’s “more inclusive.”..."

    This thread, ACCORING TO YOUR OWN WORDS, is about the promotion. You asked what it was about. You have been answered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I'm talking about the press release w/ snowflake, etc.And it doesn't matter that it wasn't released, the idea reaching that stage itself shows Marvel has done stuff which we all know is absurd.
    Your comment on New Warriors was "And Marvel Studios came up w/ New Warriors, I wouldn't put in behind them to deem X-men outdated as a brand name." This is specifically about Marvel Studios, which I pointed out had nothing to do with New Warriors. You are trying to criticize Marvel Studios for a comic they had nothing to do with that was never published. If this is your strongest argument, then you don't have an argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Again no one is upset, we're making lighthearted fun of dumb takes(X-men is not a good enough name) and ideas(New Warriors).
    Do you have anything other than 2 year old quotes and last year's never published comics? If not, then you're running at least a year behind the rest of the board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Again you are making this thread about the person who said it, I'm saying it's about the take in general.I'm glad you provided context but you seem to have a set perogative in what you think is BS and what's not.Provide facts, you're throwing your opinion in as well and calling it "context".

    For e.x. just say that sites are making a big deal out of this as all sites always do.This isn't something new or only done by "Anti-SJW's".Every site clickbaits.And of course they are being run because she's promoted, same way actors past comes up when they get a big role.That's how it works, you acting like everyone's gone after her specifically for no reason whereas there is nothing happening that's out of the blue here.
    I provided actual headlines. Do you want the links? I can provide those.

    https://boundingintocomics.com/2021/...e-is-outdated/

    https://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...ated-promotion

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inclusive.html

    https://****************/anti-x-men-...marvel-studios I can't even link to this website, because it's automatically blocked by CBR.

    Fox News and The Daily Mail are conservative news organizations that routinely publish slanted stories to provoke outrage.

    Bounding Into Comics and Cosmicbook News are textbook examples of click bait anti SJW sites.

    I am providing support for my claims, can you? Can you find a story from the past week about Alonso and her comments that comes from a reputable site? I looked and couldn't find any. I stand by my assessment. If you disagree, provide the support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Also relax, this is just a fun discussion.Not an attack on anyone.
    This is an attack on someone. This is an attack on one of the few LGBT female movie producers in the industry. You may want to claim it's all in good fun, but there is a history of harassment and attacks on women and POC in comics and the entertainment industry. You may feel this is all in good fun, but the discussion is coming from bad faith actors taking out of context quotes twisted to serve an agenda.
    Last edited by Rincewind; 09-24-2021 at 02:27 PM.

  4. #274
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    I feel like X-Nation was always a cool name, even though I never cared for the 2099 team. And I don't think X-Men is a huge deal, but It's not like there aren't cooler names with the same gimmick.

  5. #275
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    I only heard about the comments some days ago exactly because she was promoted, so yeah: I couldn't have had an opinion about it. But it baffled me, to be honest. 'Cause I'm a woman and I never thought the name was outdated.

    Now, I don't know what the promotion entails in terms of her influence and how capable she is to bring such discussions to the table - maybe it doesn't change much - but I'd prefer them not to spend time discussing whether or not to change the name of the group (!) for the sake of being current (as opposed to outdated) because that is time they could use discussing how to make those characters translate the best way possible to the movies.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    They should change the franchise name to Hellions, and center is around Hellion. He's the powerful, cool bad-boy everyone would love and admire. Anyone can be a Hellion, and anyone can love Hellion.
    I support this statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    -snip-
    Thank you for breaking it down, Rice. I saw the headline a few days ago and just shrugged it off and considering it was from Fox I assumed it was bs and just went on about my day.
    You there, The Monstrous One. We Are Not Amused!

  7. #277
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    It's an established brand. They're not going to change the name now.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    It's an established brand. They're not going to change the name now.
    They probably would if China asked them to though.

    So "Xi-Men" is still a possibility.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    It's an established brand. They're not going to change the name now.
    They might not change the name of the team, but I wouldn't be surprised if they make a first movie just named 'X' or 'Uncanny' not because of inclusiveness or whatever, but because some other company has already stepped all over the 'X-Men' name for a movie, and they might want to put a little distance between their X-Men movies and those from Fox.

  10. #280
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    I honestly wouldn’t care if the MCU went with “The Mutants”. It doesn’t harm my childhood memories of the team and it could be framed to tell wider stories about the mutant race instead of one team. Like Sutekh said also distances them from the fox films.

    Also… just because someone has one differing opinion than you doesn’t mean they’re not qualified for promotion. If they do go with a different name in the MCU it’ll be a choice that was made by committee and not just because of this one person.

  11. #281
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    What are they going to do make it X-Men and Women? Why does this keep popping up? Thats coming from me and no one else, And no one had a hand in it. Its already inclusive, there are tons of female characters. Some teams they even outnumbered the males before. Especially during Claremont. Instead of focusing on a NAME why don't you focus on the characters. Fools.

    "The Mutants" is dumb.
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 09-24-2021 at 05:15 PM.
    Dear snobs, don't try to figure out my avatar.

    Sorry, I am agnostic. And your presumptions makes you something.

    The(old) Hank McCoy thread. https://community.cbr.com/showthread...on-Thread-2020

    Interested in knowing more about Balder? https://community.cbr.com/showthread...on-Thread-2020

  12. #282
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    She’s looking at it wrong. X-man is a stand-in for hu-man. The X-Men = Hu-Men’s with ‘X’ gene. Duh… that’s real woke

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyotheseasons View Post
    Maybe it should be called "The Kevins" so I, as a Kevin, can relate to it more.
    Relating should not be the problem. There are many female X-Men. Some even iconic. Outside of the Fox pushed Mystique, who was always meant to be a villain or an anti-hero at least. Like Storm, Jean and Rogue and sigh, even Emma. And even the b and c ones are almost as well loved. By actual comic readers anyway. It is the same with the panicking guys who probably didn't know this much about the X-"Men." Who don't care/know one thing about the source material.
    Dear snobs, don't try to figure out my avatar.

    Sorry, I am agnostic. And your presumptions makes you something.

    The(old) Hank McCoy thread. https://community.cbr.com/showthread...on-Thread-2020

    Interested in knowing more about Balder? https://community.cbr.com/showthread...on-Thread-2020

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by otipep_90 View Post
    She’s looking at it wrong. X-man is a stand-in for hu-man. The X-Men = Hu-Men’s with ‘X’ gene. Duh… that’s real woke
    Language is undeniably changing, especially when referring to matters of gender and inclusiveness. The rise of Non-binary, Latinx and the like sparks discussion that reaches brand in fiction.
    Protected by the Comics Code Authority

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by otipep_90 View Post
    She’s looking at it wrong. X-man is a stand-in for hu-man. The X-Men = Hu-Men’s with ‘X’ gene. Duh… that’s real woke
    It's the economy of language from what i recall.

    Basicly people like to transfer as much informations as possible with as few words or little effort as necessary, while also trying to maintain as much clarity of the informations they want to transfer. It's basicly an automated balancing act

    The human mind is both capable of great brilliance in it's creations, but also tends to be highly lazy in how it wants to repeat it's mental processes.

    Therefor the shortening or replacing of words, the creations of metaphors, analogies, synonyms or references and the usage of categories (trying to fit things of certain similarity under an understandable umbrella term) are common and unavoidable things in living languages.

    It's one of the driving factors for language change after all.

    Said economic usage of language also means "mankind" or "humans", in the context of refering to the species, can be simply shortended to a generic masculine "man", while still refering to female members in this context too. Which in turn also carries over to the usage of "men" as plural form of humans when shortend.

    Because in the consciousness of the english language users, when they read "man" as refering to "human" rather than the common usage as word for the males, they automatically make the link to how "man" is written/spoken as "men" in plural, since they apply that to the shortend version of "human" aswell.
    Since that's quicker for the mind to automatically associate. Even though via the quirks of the english language the full plural of the word "human" is "humans".

    So yes. "X-men" in this case can simply be read as the short form of "X-humans", which then explains to the reader why the team contains female and male members, since in the minds of those who understand and/or speak the english language, they simply make jump from "men = multiple males" to "men = plural of humans when shortend" via the context and their experience with the language.
    Last edited by Grunty; 09-24-2021 at 09:32 PM.

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