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  1. #31
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swallowtail View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    If he leaves the book from one day to another without being able to make a satisfactory conclusion to the story he's writing, I can assure you, I won't get the book, not blindy because it features my fave character. There are few things that I hate more than that kind of move (events, for starters, because they mess with the storyline even worse). Also, Lobdell already went off the book for a period in N52 and sales didn't improve. I doubt the writer is really the problem.
    With all due respect, it seems strongly that editorial nixed first the story of the Outlaws as a team in favour of a solo book and then whatever the conclusion was to the story was he had been building for 30 chapters about Solitary and Jason's father and how he had been behind it all, and you are still reading the book.
    I like the story I'm reading. I also talked about how fast that conclusion was when it happened, but didn't get much annoyed to be honest. The story clearly continues and follows threads from then. Why should I drop the book?

    Actually, I was planing to drop the book if they were to turn Jason the villain behind Leviathan. But looks like he's not really the man behind the mask, and the actual current arc isn't being disturbed by that event too much (there will be disturbances, but it's seems that the writer already has that in mind and is going to work towards the integration nicely). So I will stay.

    Until I don't like it anymore. Like I did with Nightwing. Or with N52 RHATO itself.
    I'm not rich, I have to choose my buys *shrugs.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 06-10-2019 at 03:17 PM. Reason: broken quotations
    This is a signature. It has letters on it, and those letters form words. Words like these. I will not quote anything because I'm uninspired but, I read a lot: I could!

    And this is my Tumblr. Sometimes I post stuff there.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swallowtail View Post
    By what metric? It's the third lowest selling superhero ongoing after Hawkman and Batman Beyond and <20,000 is usually considered the danger zone.




    Yes, a problem which could be largely circumvented with a new creative team. However you feel about his writing, there is a pretty huge elephant in the room when it comes to Scott Lobdell being invited onto panels.



    I never said anything about his fanbase being small. He's one of the most successful new characters of the last 20 years. I figured that the reason he has a comic is because he's a gateway character for new readers.




    Whether you think it's broken or not is a purely subjective opinion. I think quite a lot of people would agree New-52 Red Hood was broken during Lobdell's run, so quite a lot of people would probably argue returning to those elements is a bad idea. "Most Improved" is definitely the label that got slapped on Rebirth Red Hood. You're saying they should introduce new readers, but if the readership is just down to the core fanbase like yourself, who are those new readers?

    Also saying, "Tynion was bad seven years ago so we must continue to have Lobdell" is a really poor, and frankly depressing argument.
    People might've thought the book was broken under Lobdell yet his sales numbers were really good

    Red Hood And The Outlaws 1* $2.99 DC 50,501
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 2* $2.99 DC 53,444
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 3* $2.99 DC 45,126
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 4* $2.99 DC 39,850
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 5* $2.99 DC 38,304
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 6* $2.99 DC 35,908
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 7* $2.99 DC 34,767
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 8* $2.99 DC 34,177
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 9 $2.99 DC 48,798 (NoTO tie-in)
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 10 $2.99 DC 37,044
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 11 $2.99 DC 35,820 (Rocafort's last issue)
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 12 $2.99 DC 34,439
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 0 $2.99 DC 39,511 (Zero Month)
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 14 $2.99 DC 37,710
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 15 $2.99 DC 64,103 (DOTF Tie-In)
    Red Hood and the Outlaws 16 $2.99 DC 59,621 (DOTF Tie-In)
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 17 $2.99 DC 53,076 (DOTF Tie-In)
    Red Hood And The Outlaws 18 $2.99 DC 37,731

    Lobdell managed to keep the book stable in the 30k range despite losing Rocafort midways and having some pretty questionable artists as a replacement.

    And, as you can see of the numbers compiled by the Jason Todd thread, this remains consistent with the performance of the book on its second volume, so clearly Lobdell is not a problem.
    Last edited by Dark_Tzitzimine; 06-10-2019 at 03:28 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    What saves red hood from being cancelled?
    As with Batman Beyond-TRADE SALES.

    Both are doing fine on Amazon with that. It seems that the longer the volume is out the better it sales over time-at least that is what I noticed for both.
    I would also suspect these book sell well with libraries as well.



    For a Number #1 with Batman thats not particularly impressive. But it should be enough to keep the book going.
    A book with 4 POC as leads..... If Batman's name was NOT on that title. That number would be lower.

    Batman did a cameo in that book.

  4. #34
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Not sure if ‘really good’ is the right word, more good enough. Also those numbers in the thread show that the second volume stated to leveling off in the mid 20’s within a half a year. Though again, they seem content with that and that is all that matters.

  5. #35
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    Lobdell managed to keep the book stable in the 30k range despite losing Rocafort midways and having some pretty questionable artists as a replacement.

    And, as you can see of the numbers compiled by the Jason Todd thread, this remains consistent with the performance of the book on its second volume, so clearly Lobdell is not a problem.[/QUOTE]

    But appears to be the problem now...
    Last edited by Swallowtail; 06-10-2019 at 04:01 PM.

  6. #36
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    I'm surprised Young Justice #5 had 29K in May. I've always though, due to the return of YJ4 and Bendis, it would mantain above 30K for more time.

    Now, Teen Titans #30 is 26K in May.

    So, it's possible both comics about young heroes will sell pretty similar in June.

  7. #37
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBrianTallent View Post
    Interesting to see Nightwing selling below Batgirl (and sad for one of my favorite characters) but DC has got to realize this stupid direction has to end. I also have to wonder if perhaps the sidelining of Biz and Artemis has been what has had the impact on the Red Hood's sales.
    DC doesn’t care. Which is why the Bat office and the Nightwing team have been allowed to get away with their Ric work.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 06-10-2019 at 04:11 PM.

  8. #38
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swallowtail View Post
    By what metric? It's the third lowest selling superhero ongoing after Hawkman and Batman Beyond and <20,000 is usually considered the danger zone.
    Does that even apply in this day and age?

    The numbers we have access to are just what Diamond Distribution reports in terms of orders by direct sales comic book shops in primarily the U.S. (and some of Canada?). It does not include sales from outside of Diamond; it does not include any digital issue sales/other streaming service access of any type; it doesn't include any later collected edition purchases.

    The "numbers" don't tell us anything about the number of individual human beings who may be reading and enjoying a story / a character in some form or another.

  9. #39
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Still doesn’t usually bode well.

  10. #40
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Still doesn’t usually bode well.
    I don't disagree with that, but I do feel blanket statements like "below 20,000 copies means cancelation" are not really relevant any more when we don't have all the sales figures available to us, just the limited information provided by Diamond. (And even with Diamond's information, we have no clue as to how many individual copies are bought by actual people.)

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    DC doesn’t care. Which is why the Bat office and the Nightwing team have been allowed to get away with their Ric work.
    I find this unlikely. Lobdell is likely a Harras pick forced on them and probably not something that the Batoffice would have done by themselves.

    And the sales are at the lowest point in more than 18+ years. Which is a spectacular failure.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 06-10-2019 at 06:20 PM.

  12. #42
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    I doubt they had much choice. Their new direction drove off Percy leaving them in desperation mode. And then again after they were gonna put Esquivel on the book right before he was outed. Which good vetting by them , though not sure why they care about that all of a sudden. Finally leaving us with Jurgans. Another good old boy. Ric is their spectacular failure that was a mess before it even began, and yet shows no signs of ending anytime soon. If DC gave a crap though they would have already stepped in, but instead they are just letting them ride it out it seems.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 06-11-2019 at 08:33 AM.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swallowtail View Post
    But appears to be the problem now...

    You guys are the ones seeing a problem, not DC. They even confirmed the book would be part of DC's catalogue in the foreseeable future in the press release announcing King's limited series.

    Also, no, removing Artemis and Bizarro didn't have a significant impact on the sales, the last issues before the rebranding were already in the same range.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    You guys are the ones seeing a problem, not DC. They even confirmed the book would be part of DC's catalogue in the foreseeable future in the press release announcing King's limited series.
    I mean, even a very generous, all smoke, no fire take on Lobdell would say he presents a PR problem for DC. I once saw him give an interview about Red Hood where he somehow ended up talking about how he’s only into kinky sex. One does not put that guy on official DC panels or send him to get interviewed by Hollywood insider.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swallowtail View Post
    Almost every writer who started a Rebirth book has told the story they wanted to tell and moved on or is preparing to move on.
    Appart from RHatO, Batgirl and Batman Beyond all of the other Rebirth books that are stlll going on were double shipped at some point. Therefore RHatO is something between 10 and 35 issues behind the other books.

    I think if they should Lobdell stay on the book at least till issue #50, that should be enough time to wrap up all the plots and the year of the villain.

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