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  1. #1
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Default Return of the Ultimate Universe?

    Interesting news about Miles Morales: Spider-Man #10 (LGY #250) here:


    Is Miles going home? They talk about the Ultimate Universe being back, and I'm pretty sure that's Ultimate Green Goblin on that cover!

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Interesting news about Miles Morales: Spider-Man #10 (LGY #250) here:


    Is Miles going home? They talk about the Ultimate Universe being back, and I'm pretty sure that's Ultimate Green Goblin on that cover!
    I'm all for the Ultimate Green Goblin showing up, but I think the Ultimate Universe should stay dead. There just isn't room for an AU at this point, even one that was so successful for so long. Plus, that whole universe was just so badly deconstructed in the final years. I don't think it can ever recover.
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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Interesting news about Miles Morales: Spider-Man #10 (LGY #250) here:

    Is Miles going home? They talk about the Ultimate Universe being back, and I'm pretty sure that's Ultimate Green Goblin on that cover!
    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...this-september

    It's Miles' 250th solo issue! And just in time for the legacy number milestone, itís Milesí Birthday!

    The Ultimate Universe comes back to haunt Miles... Who is Ultimatum and how does he have the Ultimate Green Goblin in his thrall?!
    While I would like to say that someone has maybe found a way to tap into whatever remnant of the Ultimate Universe made it's way to the "616" I still just can't get past how dumb it looks that Marvel is calling this the 250th solo Miles issue.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member Minerboh's Avatar
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    I started a thread a while ago asking if it would be nice to see Ultimate Peter meeting 616 Peter.
    Ultimate Goblin might be heralding this meeting?

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...this-september


    While I would like to say that someone has maybe found a way to tap into whatever remnant of the Ultimate Universe made it's way to the "616" I still just can't get past how dumb it looks that Marvel is calling this the 250th solo Miles issue.
    Yeah, it's issue 250 of Ultimate Spider-Man, not Miles Morales.

  6. #6
    Incredible Member tib2d2's Avatar
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    I guess this is the math they used to get to "legacy #250"

    Ultimate Spider-Man (2000) #1-53
    Ultimate Six #1-7 (2003) (#54-60)
    Ultimate Spider-Man (2000) #54-133 (#61-140)
    Ultimatum: Spider-Man Requiem (2009) #1-2 (#141-142)
    Ultimate Comics Spider-Man (2009) #1-15 (#143-157)
    Ultimate Spider-Man (2000) #150-160 (#158-168)
    Ultimate Spider-Man (2011) #1-28 (#169-196)
    Cataclysm: Ultimate Spider-Man (2013) #1-3 (#197-199)
    Ultimate Spider-Man (2000) #200
    Miles Morales, Ultimate Spider-Man (2014) #1-12 (#201-212)
    Spider-Man (2016) #1-21 (#213-233)

    Ugh, I swear this is the worst part about Marvel currently

  7. #7
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Whoever at Marvel put a blushing emoji next to Peter's death issue to show that they totally botched the numbering on #150 back then should be CEO of the company. 133 + 15 is 148.

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  8. #8
    Incredible Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    I may be in the minority, but I for one would not be that excited to see a return of the Ultimate Universe.

    The initial appeal for me with regards to the Ultimate line was that it was a contemporary retelling of the Marvel Universe's characters that wasn't bogged down by 40+ years of continuity. That somehow got skewed into a "anything can happen!" mindset that wound up muddling the Ultimate continuity and characters within a handful of years of its existence, to the point that it became at times even more confusing than the 616 universe. After Ultimatum the only Ultimate book I continued to read was Spider-Man, and then Bendis' wound up killing him off too, so that made me give up the Ultimate line altogether (nothing against Miles, mind you).

    So I would say that the Ultimate line is best left in the past.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I may be in the minority, but I for one would not be that excited to see a return of the Ultimate Universe.
    I actually think your opinion, which I mostly share, is about the median. Everyone's ambivalent about the Ultimate Universe returning. Because it wasn't universally liked and popular when it went out.

    The initial appeal for me with regards to the Ultimate line was that it was a contemporary retelling of the Marvel Universe's characters that wasn't bogged down by 40+ years of continuity. That somehow got skewed into a "anything can happen!" mindset that wound up muddling the Ultimate continuity and characters within a handful of years of its existence, to the point that it became at times even more confusing than the 616 universe. After Ultimatum the only Ultimate book I continued to read was Spider-Man, and then Bendis' wound up killing him off too, so that made me give up the Ultimate line altogether (nothing against Miles, mind you).

    So I would say that the Ultimate line is best left in the past.
    It's one of those ironies that something created to be contemporary and zeit-geisty ends up becoming dated quick. That happened to Ultimate Marvel very quick. Read Ultimate Spider-Man today and you'll find that it's picture of Peter in high school isn't far from Peter in high school in the 616 era. You have a mostly white cast, entirely straight cast, and that was the case for the majority of the Ultimate Peter story. Bendis himself pointed this out, and he said that's what led to him creating Miles. The first attempt to introduce diversity in retelling Spider-Man's origins happened with Greg Weisman's Spectacular cartoon.

    I do have a lot of affection for that cast of characters and that version but again I can re-read them (and I do re-read Ultimate Spider-Man a lot) and I don't get the sense that there are any more stories to be told. There was an ending, it worked, and that's good.

    What I'd like is an anniversary miniseries, 2-3 issues, or one long one-shot that basically does a high school epilogue for them, but even then only if it's Bendis/Bagley/Pichelli/Marquez who do it.

  10. #10
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I do have a lot of affection for that cast of characters and that version but again I can re-read them (and I do re-read Ultimate Spider-Man a lot) and I don't get the sense that there are any more stories to be told. There was an ending, it worked, and that's good.
    I think there would be more stories to tell if Bendis had actually let the cast age more, but he obviously wasn't planning on that by the time he killed Ultimate Peter off.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member CrimsonEchidna's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about it and I think Osborn showing up in Miles #10 book is intentional. The same month is going to have Otto facing off against Spider-Norman so it might be planting the seeds to the third Spider-Verse event (the Spiders vs the Goblins.)
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  12. #12
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    I've been thinking about it and I think Osborn showing up in Miles #10 book is intentional. The same month is going to have Otto facing off against Spider-Norman so it might be planting the seeds to the third Spider-Verse event (the Spiders vs the Goblins.)
    Anything's better then the Inheritors, but I feel like that would be more convincing if we just did a Goblin Nation redux with more spider-people (not that I'm advocating for it).

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I may be in the minority, but I for one would not be that excited to see a return of the Ultimate Universe.

    The initial appeal for me with regards to the Ultimate line was that it was a contemporary retelling of the Marvel Universe's characters that wasn't bogged down by 40+ years of continuity. That somehow got skewed into a "anything can happen!" mindset that wound up muddling the Ultimate continuity and characters within a handful of years of its existence, to the point that it became at times even more confusing than the 616 universe. After Ultimatum the only Ultimate book I continued to read was Spider-Man, and then Bendis' wound up killing him off too, so that made me give up the Ultimate line altogether (nothing against Miles, mind you).

    So I would say that the Ultimate line is best left in the past.
    That's a fair reason and well-explained.

    I myself would vote to let it continue (with Brian Michael Bendis not being involved and the chance that I might not like what a relaunch would do being my only hangups). However, I think the thing is, for me, Ultimate Spider-Man is a favorite of mine and I would like to see that come back and find out what happened after we last left it (preferably an Ultimate Peter series; I've found I like Miles better in the movies then on the printed page).
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  14. #14
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    I think I'd retool the Ultimate brand to be... well, it's original mission statement. Set the books in Earth-1610 if it fits. But I'd move the focus from doing continuity-lite versions of popular characters to doing distilled versions of up and coming characters, particularly those with muddled origins in 616.

    There's a few MCU movies that strike me as being akin to what the Ultimate version of those properties might have been. Guardians of the Galaxy especially. It took this property composed of characters that were created by a bunch of different people and distilled it into a single vision, untethered to any events, crossovers, or decades of continuity. Ant-Man is a distillation of the Ant-Man property around the character of Scott Lang. Captain Marvel reworked Carol's origin into a story that was actually an origin for her as a hero, not a side-effect of a different hero's story.

    And really, that's what Ultimate Spider-Man was and part of what worked so well for it. So, why not extend the approach to less prominent but equally promising properties? There's a fair few characters that did appear in 1610, but were retooled as supporting cast: Carol, Shang-Chi, others. I'm not saying, give those characters their own book. Give them their own Ultimate treatment. We've seen a Shang-Chi in 1610, but I wouldn't really say we've seen "Ultimate Shang-Chi". For example.

    What you'd get out of it would be some easily accessible trades, something that's evergreen for sales purposes if they do it right, and possibly even something to inspire future movies and shows.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think there would be more stories to tell if Bendis had actually let the cast age more, but he obviously wasn't planning on that by the time he killed Ultimate Peter off.
    I don't know if it's Bendis so much as the editors. The whole point of Ultimate Marvel was to enforce Comic Book Time from the start and keep Peter permanently in high school. Aging Peter from there was something they would never have allowed. Bendis got around it by bringing in Miles and killing off Peter and then progressing time so that Peter ages to 18-19 when he and MJ run away in that issue where Peter returns.

    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    There's a few MCU movies that strike me as being akin to what the Ultimate version of those properties might have been.
    To me the MCU is the Ultimate Marvel done right. Winter Soldier was something I really enjoyed because it's a parody of the Ultimate version of SHIELD and Nick Fury. Ultimate Marvel under Millar had a huge love affair with the military-industrial complex and SHIELD and Fury were shown as all-powerful. Winter Soldier demolishes that, getting rid of the Triskellion, getting rid of SHIELD entirely, and having Fury be downgraded as a below-the-grid underground agent after being the God of the Ultimate Universe.

    Guardians of the Galaxy especially. It took this property composed of characters that were created by a bunch of different people and distilled it into a single vision, untethered to any events, crossovers, or decades of continuity.
    Guardians was actually following the path set out in the Annihilation Crossover. That crossover which happened in 616 did that to the Guardians in the comics and introduced elements and the lineup that made it into the movie. Though of course, Gunn put his own spin and altered from there.

    The thing is that around the time Millar wrote Civil War, a lot of Ultimate Marvel events or ideas were enforced in 616. What Marvel did with Ultimate Marvel is similar to DC and the Silver Age. The Silver Age of Comics was a bolt of fresh air which updated characters, introduced legacies (Hal Jordan, Barry Allen) and so on. The difference is that DC eventually made their Ultimate universe (the Silver Age) the default universe, while Marvel after seeing what worked and so on in Ultimate Universe, decided to cannibalize, borrow, streamline, import characters, concepts and ideas before junking Ultimate Universe when it's purpose was served.

    Ant-Man is a distillation of the Ant-Man property around the character of Scott Lang.
    Yeah, because redeeming Hank Pym in the comics is this fruitless endeavor and the movie decided to go ahead with the Ant Man they can work with.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 06-25-2019 at 12:07 AM.

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