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  1. #1
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    Default Why Wonder Woman is the queer superhero that fans need in 2019

    https://www.bustle.com/p/why-wonder-...-2019-17982280

    The first teaser poster for Wonder Woman 1984 was released on June 5 and it has sent fans wild. Director Patty Jenkins shared the image of Gal Gadot in all her fierce glory a year ahead of the films release. The debut of Wonder Woman in 2017 was fairly iconic. To see a female led superhero sell out the box office was so exciting. However, Wonder Woman is so much more important as a character than being a powerful female lead. Here's why Wonder Woman is the queer superhero that 2019 needs.


    A writer who worked on the comics has always been explicitly clear that the character is not straight and, considering she lived on an island of Amazonian women and no men, it makes sense that Wonder Woman has had encounters with women before.

    Fans have been questioning what's to come in Wonder Woman 1984 since Wonder Woman exploded onto cinema screens in 2017. I don’t remember the last time I was so excited about a film. It's pure escapism.Wonder Woman felt like a breakthrough in the DC films. Not only is Gal Gadot incredibly powerful as Diana, but Greg Rucka, who worked on Wonder Woman for DC Comics throughout the 2000s, revealed that the character is also undeniably queer.

    Speaking candidly in an interview with Comicosity about the queer narrative in Wonder Woman, Rucka said, “by our standards where I am standing of 2016, Themyscira is a queer culture. I’m not hedging that.” However, Rucka stated that representation at the expense of good writing and character development was avoided at all cost.

    The idea behind Diana’s community — Themyscira — being queer will blow your mind. Rucka explained in the interview, “it’s supposed to be paradise. You’re supposed to be able to live happily. You’re supposed to be able — in a context where one can live happily, and part of what an individual needs for that happiness is to have a partner — to have a fulfilling, romantic and sexual relationship. And the only options are women. But an Amazon doesn’t look at another Amazon and say, “You’re gay.” They don’t. The concept doesn’t exist.”


    Rather than making Diana’s sexuality a central feature of her character it's just a given that she isn’t heterosexual considering where she's come from. Presenting her as a strong, queer woman is powerful because she isn’t written as a queer superhero, she is simply a superhero. There's so much more to her. It highlights that queer characters can be written in such a way that they represent the LGBTQ+ community but are so much more than just their sexual identity. She is a three dimensional character.

    When it comes down to it, Wonder Woman’s sexuality is one of the least interesting things about her. She has superpowers. She saves the world. She wears that iconic suit. However, the fact that people can go to the cinema and see a superhero film with a queer female lead sell out the box office is so important. There is a need for mainstream films with complex, queer characters and if I get to feel a little bit represented while watching Gal Gadot kick ass then you absolutely have my vote.

  2. #2
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    I guess so.

    But, I'm not sure Diana will be explicitly queer on the big screen, little screen or in the comic books any time soon (i.e. given a long-term girlfriend or even being shown to enjoy casual romantic / sexual dalliances with various women and men). They could have given Diana an ex-girlfriend who joined Hippolyta in pleading with Diana not to leave Themyscira in the first film. Sure, the line about the pleasures of the flesh (or whatever it was) not being confined to men was somewhat telling, although she could have been purely speaking from what she'd read in Cleo's treatise / text book. But, it was someone offset by her puzzlement about the concept of marriage which surely would have been familiar to her if there were Amazons on the island in committed relationships.

    Heck, even if they didn't want to go that far, they could have at least shown Hippolyta and Philippus in a committed relationship and as parents to Diana.

    I admire the enthusiasm and sentiment of the article, but I still think we have a way to go.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    I have to question why it's needed. It's canon that WW ISN'T that, so why do you feel she needs to be that? Like you said, it's the least interesting aspect of the character and society to write. Why bother?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I have to question why it's needed. It's canon that WW ISN'T that, so why do you feel she needs to be that? Like you said, it's the least interesting aspect of the character and society to write. Why bother?
    Rebirth established her as bisexual.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I have to question why it's needed. It's canon that WW ISN'T that, so why do you feel she needs to be that? Like you said, it's the least interesting aspect of the character and society to write. Why bother?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Rebirth established her as bisexual.
    Yep, and it's pretty obvious it was what Marston would have gone for had he been allowed to be explicit.

  6. #6
    Spectacular Member greymoon's Avatar
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    It’s kinda annoying how some of you mention Marston as if he explicitly said he wanted WW to be bisexual or something. You don’t know that. Besides, stop holding WW back solely to Marston, this isn’t the 1940’s anymore.

  7. #7
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Yep, and it's pretty obvious it was what Marston would have gone for had he been allowed to be explicit.
    Why is it obvious?

    He lived in a polyamorous relationship, having two children with his wife and two with Olive Byrne, but Olive and Elizabeth were not involved in a sexual relationship.

    It was also his wife's idea that the superhero he was asked to write should be a woman.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    I'll likely take some backlash for this but oh what the hell. I hate when contemporary politics of any sort are overtly inserted into sci-fi or fantasy movies/tv shows. Please, writers and directors, use allegory instead of a "ripped from the headlines" approach to get your subtext across because this is escapism not true to life drama.
    Last edited by Celgress; 06-17-2019 at 02:39 PM.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  9. #9
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I'll likely take some backlash for this but oh what the hell. I hate when contemporary politics of any sort are overtly inserted into sci-fi or fantasy movies/tv shows. Please, writers and directors, use allegory instead of a "ripped from the headlines" approach to get your subtext across because this is escapism not true to life drama.
    Having queer characters is not "overtly inserting contemporary politics" into a story. Having queer characters is not a "ripped from the headlines" approach.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    I hate to break this to you, but the themes and topics of contemporary politics are included in science fiction stories all the time. There has never been a time when the genre has been non-political. However, in a lot of cases, it is invisible because we have cannot recognise the political content that was dynamite back in the day, or we miss it because we agree with it. Because I can flat-out guarantee that political content that you agree with is 95% less likely to bug you than political content that you don't agree with.

    Given who Diana is and where she grew up, she is an insanely political figure as designed, and that design was also very conscious. WW17 was filled shock full with political content and criticism of Man's World, but that was masked from most by the movie being set in 1917. 1984 is arguably an even more political time than 1917, with the AIDS crisis, two opposing ideologies with enough weapons to annihilate the human civilisation, and still within living memory of a lot of us.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I hate to break this to you, but the themes and topics of contemporary politics are included in science fiction stories all the time. There has never been a time when the genre has been non-political. However, in a lot of cases, it is invisible because we have cannot recognise the political content that was dynamite back in the day, or we miss it because we agree with it. Because I can flat-out guarantee that political content that you agree with is 95% less likely to bug you than political content that you don't agree with...
    I disagree it is because the method used was far more subtle than that used today and thus I argue more effective. I have nothing against political messages in fantasy I simply prefer them to be allegoric and not be hamfisted. Such messages should blend seamlessly with the plot. I fear after reading the interview the message here will be as subtle as a club to the head. Time will tell if my fears are realized.
    Last edited by Celgress; 06-17-2019 at 03:35 PM.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greymoon View Post
    It’s kinda annoying how some of you mention Marston as if he explicitly said he wanted WW to be bisexual or something. You don’t know that. Besides, stop holding WW back solely to Marston, this isn’t the 1940’s anymore.
    What exactly is holding her back by bringing up his probable intentions in this context?
    She can be out as a bisexual and it's not a big deal. In your own words, "it's not the 1940s anymore."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Why is it obvious?
    There isn't a lot of subtlety in the Golden Age comics. That's far from the only thing going on of course, but with all the queer subtext, it's hard to imagine he didn't intend for her to not be 100% straight. Incorporating his bondage ideas in relationships between women (I'm looking at the Dom/sub relationship between Diana and Paula specifically, where Paula refers to herself as "your Paula") raises the possibility quite a hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    He lived in a polyamorous relationship, having two children with his wife and two with Olive Byrne, but Olive and Elizabeth were not involved in a sexual relationship.

    It was also his wife's idea that the superhero he was asked to write should be a woman.
    I'm aware of those things, but none of them preclude him intending Diana herself to be bisexual.

  13. #13
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I disagree it is because the method used was far more subtle than that used today and thus I argue more effective. I have nothing against political messages in fantasy I simply prefer them to be allegoric and not be hamfisted. Such messages should blend seamlessly with the plot. I fear after reading the interview the message here will be as subtle as a club to the head. Time will tell if my fears are realized.
    Captain America's first issue had him punching Hitler in the face. It's fair to say that there's always been a fair bit of overt messaging in comics

    There's a ton of examples of overt messaging in the genre's past. The Twilight Zone would just have Rod Serling straight up come out to tell you what the message of the episode was.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Captain America's first issue had him punching Hitler in the face. It's fair to say that there's always been a fair bit of overt messaging in comics

    There's a ton of examples of overt messaging in the genre's past. The Twilight Zone would just have Rod Serling straight up come out to tell you what the message of the episode was.
    The Twilight Zone was good because it used allegory rather than the actual thing it was referencing. Sure, Serling gave narration at the end of each episode but it never had Soviet agents take the place of aliens for example.

    As for the Sups punching Hitler I've never been a fan of cheesy WW II era comics for that reason.

    Edit - Just let the Amazons be Amazons there is no need to constantly mention/overtly reinforce that they are lesbians which is what I fear might happen in the movie. Let their actions speak for them.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  15. #15
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    From my understanding, while "gay" and "queer" both started out as pejorative terms for the same thing, when used in a positive context now they are distinctly different. Someone who is gay is definitely gay--not straight, not bi. Someone who is queer can be gay, bi, straight, trans or a whole range of other things. It's a way to have a label without putting someone into a box and saying they are this and only this. So Wonder Woman is queer--of course, she is. I would go so far as to say every super-hero is queer, because they are outside the box. Maybe some people object to queer being used for straight folks--but there are a lot of folks who are straight yet have out of the ordinary relationships. Such as Dr. Marston, who was queer the way I see it.

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