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  1. #1
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    Default Why is the animated adaption of the Dark Phoenix Saga the best adaption?

    Why is the animated adaption of the Dark Phoenix Saga best adaption, where it was better than either movie adaption, despite being aimed at a younger audience?

    https://www.cbr.com/x-men-animated-s...ampaign=CBR-TW

  2. #2

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    1) Jean and Scott's romantic relationship is well-established in the first and second SEASONS of the show.

    2) The X-Men's familial relationship is well-established over the first two season, showing them encounter all manner of adventures and come back together despite it all.

    3) The Shi'Ar are slowly introduced, first with the Soul-Eater(a definite departure from the comics, but it works) coming to the Morlock tunnels early in season 3.

    4) The Phoenix saga is not skimped over. Jean's noble sacrifice to save the X-Men in the shuttle reentry is well executed, and they give her time to flourish into her power, have great showings against Gladiator, and go on to save the universe from D'Ken. It's almost like they weren't sure they were going to get another season to do the DPS, though, as they kinda have Jean 'sacrifice' herself by taking the M'Kraan Crystal into the sun(which kinda replicates the period where Scott thought Jean and Beast died in Magneto's volcano lair).

    5) Their actual DPS episodes follow the main plot points from the original, despite not going too in depth with Mastermind's 2 year long manipulation of Jean as was done in the comics. Other than that, though, despite having a different cast of characters in play(Rogue, Gambit, etc.), they lean into that Claremont/Byrne goodness(Hellfire Club and Imperial Guard included) for full effect.

    6) Despite changing things like the extent of Phoenix's destruction out in space(an uninhabited star system instead of billions dead), and not actually keeping her dead for longer than 2 minutes on the moon(maybe a bit closer to Claremont's original intention), it is wonderfully adapted for children, without dumbing it down too much.
    Last edited by yogaflame; 06-11-2019 at 08:58 PM.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  3. #3
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    The story requires a lot of build up. The characters and their relationships need to be development and sadly the films haven't care about those relationships or have rushed them.
    The animated version isn't perfect but it has more space to develop the characters.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    These characters are not real and nobody loves each other for real. They will dump and love people even if it makes no sense just to for the sake of it.
    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    How much build up is really necessary? All you need is a strong opening number that establishes the status quo that 1. the X-Men are powered superheroes led by a telepath 2. Jean is the weakest operative and 3. She’s in an awkward love affair with the teacher’s pet.

    You don’t need Shi’Ar cosmic forces. You just need Jean to unlock insane power levels after a death event, and the subsequent dismantling of relationships with men who are uncomfortable with the amount of power in her hands.

    The quadruple reveal that Xavier was really-not-that-bad-and-actually-good-all-along was the worst part of Dark Phoenix 2019.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    I even liked the Wolverine and the X-Men DPS, it reinterpreted the story but kept a large number of elements from the comic. TAS DPS is better definitely but I have a soft spot for the WatXM version too!

    It's really sad that X3 and Dark Phoenix just couldn't do the DPS justice.

  6. #6

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    I can't stand WatXM's version. Jean is a pawn like in X3, and the entire team dynamics are all wrong.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/darren_mooney/st...862371328?s=21

    Darren Mooney had a fascinating tweet thread dissecting the story. The number one problem with adapting DPS is that it’s incredibly archaic. Jean’s arc challenges old paradigms about superheroes and gender roles and generational authority. We’re almost 50 years hence. Without that arc, and it’s necessary challenges in the form of Magneto, Xavier, White Queen and Cyclops, the Phoenix Saga just becomes a cosmic battle royale with fanservice and cgi.

    Umbrella Academy updated it incredibly well because it focused on trauma and internal strife, and didn’t shy away from the father figure being selfish and somewhat villainous.
    Last edited by CRaymond; 06-11-2019 at 09:24 PM.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I can't stand WatXM's version. Jean is a pawn like in X3, and the entire team dynamics are all wrong.
    You won't find me agreeing with you and disagreeing with RachelGrey very much, but here we are.

    I have a soft spot for the WatXM series, since Kari Wahlgren is a FLAWLESS Emma Frost, but Scott, Jean, and Emma are mistreated so badly by the story that it's hard to enjoy it. I especially don't like them going with the "Phoenix is a force of death with no other redeeming qualities" angle.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  9. #9
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    TAS only wins because it had more Leland. WaTXM is not an adaptation.
    Omega Level Rodent Fighter

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I can't stand WatXM's version. Jean is a pawn like in X3, and the entire team dynamics are all wrong.
    And the lack of buildup, improper character focus outside of Wolverine really, butchering some characters, making the Phoenix stupidly wimpy (seriously, releasing it into the atmosphere? Get the pre-established weakness but that was pathetic), the Hellfire Club weren't even badass, and more.

  11. #11
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    i miss leland man
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  12. #12
    Mighty Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    1. The X-men would be better as TV show than movie (see heroes first two seasons). So longer format for story telling is better for the X-men. X-men movies tried to tell Phoenix story in 2 hour movie. The X-men cartoon told the Phoenix story in a 5 part The Phoenix Saga and 4 part The Dark Phoenix Saga which adds up to about 3 hours plus some change.


    2. X-men Phoenix is story is big and over top . And the X-men movies want to tell a "grounded" a story about cosmic alien firebird entity.

    3. X-men animated series just told story tweaked for their format. Fox never really respected the X-men as a story. Which is why I am happy its last movie is failing spectacularly.They keep approaching X-men story on the big screen like they had to fix the stories instead of adapting for format

    -We can't use alien firebird entity we have to fix it
    -We can't use the Hellfire club we have to fix it
    -We can't use the Shiar we have to fix it
    -We can't show Jean really killing people and planets we have to fix it

    I am happy that X-men is back with Marvel where the Red skull is guardian entity of the soul stone and nobody bats an eye how ridiculous that is, 11 foot purple man who is putting together magic stones to make half the universe disappear,Talking tree and Talking raccoon are around, A God jumps into a star to forge a magic axe and the talking tree becomes the handle.Nobody talks about how ridiculous that is and how you need to ground it. A S&M gear wearing secret club of rich mutants,Aliens and cosmic alien firebird entity fit right in. Yeah maybe tone down Hellfire to a secret club or not touch M'krann crystal all that other stuff but just stick to story it works.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 06-11-2019 at 10:02 PM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    1. The X-men would be better as TV show than movie (see heroes first two seasons). So longer format for story telling is better for the X-men. X-men movies tried to tell Phoenix story in 2 hour movie. The X-men cartoon told the Phoenix story in a 5 part The Phoenix Saga and 4 part The Dark Phoenix Saga which adds up to about 3 and half hours.


    2. X-men Phoenix is story is big and over top . And the X-men movies want to tell a "grounded" a story about cosmic alien firebird entity.

    3. X-men animated series just told story tweaked for their format. Fox never really respected the X-men as story. Which is why I am happy its last movie is failing spectacularly.They keep approaching X-men story on the big screen like they had to fix the stories instead of adapting for format

    -We can't use alien firebird entity we have to fix it
    -We can't use the Hellfire club we have to fix it
    -We can't use the Shiar we have to fix it
    -We can't show Jean really killing people and planets we have to fix it

    I am happy that X-men is back with Marvel where the Red skull is guardian entity of the soul stone and nobody bats an eye how ridiculous that is, 11 foot purple man who putting together magic stones to make half the universe disappear,Talking tree,Talking raccoon, A God jumps into a star to forge a magic axe and the tree becomes the handle.Nobody talks about how ridiculous that is and how you need to ground it. A S&M gear wearing secret club of rich mutants,Aliens and cosmic alien firebird entity fit right in
    Give this user a hammer, because you nailed it.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  14. #14

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    I'm still mad at First Class for making what could be the X-Men's Eyes Wide Shut Illuminati stand in into a cheap Vegas strip joint.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  15. #15
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    You don't need space or aliens to adapt DPS, even if you used the same plot structure as the book.
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