Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 37 of 37
  1. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Using that same logic, are you treating Asgard's featless buildings as a tremendously durable thing? It's not like a solid block of metal. Thor's lightning just needed to rip through its outer wall of armor and then speed through mostly hollow space and target anything that looked shiny and important (i.e. Hela). The walls of those buildings are nothing compared to Hela, Thor and so on. Thor could probably have managed the same sort of thing, but importantly, the buildings were left standing afterwards. Even Dark Elves ships were able to blow through Asgard's walls, which gives us a pretty good idea of how durable those buildings are... which aren't very much.

    So, Thor's lightning, which leaves buildings standing that Dark Elves ships can just ram through, takes down Hela for more than ten seconds. While Captain Marvel, ramming through a city-sized ship which actually *does* destroy it... wont?

    Really?

    (see what I did there?)
    What? I... never argued buildings?? There wasnt even a roof over their heads when he summoned the bolt. It landed straight on Hela. I literally have no idea what you are saying.

    Im saying /Hela/ is way more durable than featless space ship outer armor (or asgardian buildings for that matter) but the bolt stunned her all the same.

    Like she can force her fingers THROUGH Mjolnir with breaking them.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  2. #32
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    956

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    What? I... never argued buildings?? There wasnt even a roof over their heads when he summoned the bolt. It landed straight on Hela. I literally have no idea what you are saying.

    Im saying /Hela/ is way more durable than featless space ship outer armor (or asgardian buildings for that matter) but the bolt stunned her all the same.
    That is the implication of that feat. The lightning not only hits Hela, but Asgard's tower and surrounding buildings (i.e. you: "It stretched over a kilometer /wide/ at the base. The thing was crazy.", and yet, none of Asgards buildings, especially the tower they were on, gets smashed to smithereens. Also, if size is your only metric, then Thanos' ship is way larger than a kilometer.

    My point is that, Thor's biggest lightning bolt, which we have now demonstrated had *less* oomph than Captain Marvel ramming into something, was enough to stun Hella. By that corollary, Captain Marvel ramming into something, which we have now demonstrated has *more * oomph than Thor's biggest lighting bolt, would likewise also stun Hela (and likely for longer and more severely).

    Like she can force her fingers THROUGH Mjolnir with breaking them.
    And? If she's being rammed into with forces higher than what Thor took to stun her, punched and slammed and hit with lasers all the way up, what good will that do her?
    Last edited by Twickster; 06-15-2019 at 12:29 PM.

  3. #33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    That is the implication of that feat. The lightning not only hits Hela, but Asgard's tower and surrounding buildings, and yet, none of it gets smashed to smithereens.

    My point is that, Thor's biggest lightning bolt, which we have now demonstrated had *less* oomph than Captain Marvel ramming into something, was enough to stun Hella. By that corollary, Captain Marvel ramming into something, which we have now demonstrated has *more * oomph than Thor's biggest lighting bolt, would likewise also stun Hela (and likely for longer and more severely).



    And? If she's being rammed into with forces higher than what it took to stun her, punched and slammed and hit with lasers all the way up, what good will that do her?
    We haven't demonstrated anything of the sort. The buildings weren't the target. Hela was. The rest was just side scatter.

    Her body is more durable than Mjolnir, because she can crush Mjolnir like an egg without snapping her bones and mangling her hands. She also straight up stopped it cold at a full speed toss. People aren't generally wildly stronger than they are durable.

    Also, are you now arguing that Thor's bolt was... weaker than his space whale killing one's? Because they were more durable than "buildings".

    Also, Carol punches Mjolnir. Do you think it smashes to pieces?

    I'm back to work now, catch up later.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  4. #34
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    956

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    We haven't demonstrated anything of the sort. The buildings weren't the target. Hela was. The rest was just side scatter.
    I watched the scene, the bolt hits Hela and she gets slammed to the side, then the bolt continues through, destroys the ledge they are on and heads straight down into Asgard. Hela didn't absorb the whole bolt or anything.

    Her body is more durable than Mjolnir, because she can crush Mjolnir like an egg without snapping her bones and mangling her hands. She also straight up stopped it cold at a full speed toss. People aren't generally wildly stronger than they are durable.

    Also, are you now arguing that Thor's bolt was... weaker than his space whale killing one's? Because they were more durable than "buildings".
    I don't know what you're trying to say with this. Also:

    She also straight up stopped it cold at a full speed toss.
    Not that impressive. Kurse has done that, so has Thanos. And per their armwrestling show, Carol is stronger than Thanos.

    Also, Carol punches Mjolnir. Do you think it smashes to pieces?

    I'm back to work now, catch up later.
    Who knows? Mjolnir's gone now. She's stronger than Thanos, so I'm fairly confident that she can likewise do things like dip her fingers into Vision's vibranium head like a pie, or chop through Cap's shield with a suitably sharp/durable object. What would be helpful is a comparison of durability between vibranium and Mjolnir, and on that, by presentation (admittedly problematic as far as this forum is concerned) the MCU has generally portrayed them to be equally durable.
    Last edited by Twickster; 06-15-2019 at 12:50 PM.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member moonknight11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Then why would there be a need to scout the area? You entirely ignored this. They didn't know anything about what was on the planet save that Thanos was *in it*.
    Knowing the exact location of a power surge doesn't tell you if there's anyone else there. Carol scouted to see if any armies where in the location. She only found Thanos in a cabin. Easy to explain.



    No, I'm relying on Carol, very leisurely I may add, leaving the planet in 10 seconds in her own movie, as well as her warpspeed jump, also in her own movie. See at 0:55 here:



    The "scouting a planet and finding a single shack in it in a few minutes" feat is only incidental, which you are somehow trying to convey as portraying her as slower than she is.
    Dude in your own clip she isn't going warp speed or that fast. She takes several seconds and is in Monica's sight. Then there's a cut and she's in space. Using that cut as evidence she can hit outer space in 10 seconds is interesting but wrong. Especially when you take into account the final fight. She starts pretty high up and still takes 8 seconds to reach the missiles racing towards her in atmosphere. Then she takes 4 or so seconds going from end of the explosions to the other, then another 20 or so to get to actual space.


    Better than my minutes estimate, but even with a head start it still adds up to more than a half a minute.



    And? So people don't use their displayed feats to their maximum extent in a movie, why is that news? Movies don't operate by CBR rules. Why didn't Doctor Strange or any of the wizards open a portal underneath Thanos' armies' and BFR them to another planet, or under a deep sea trench, or into space? Why didn't Strange not cut off Thanos' head while he was under in Infinity War? Why didn't Wasp shrink the infinity gauntlet so that nobody could get or wear it? Why didn't Thor just continuously hit Thanos with lightning from a distance, given that Captain Thormerica and Iron Man were likely immune to lightning? That's not reason enough to discount a potential strategy under CBR conditions using demonstrated feats.
    The problem is 'demonstrated feats'. She has no demonstrated reflex feats that put her even at bullet time, and her demonstrated travel feats put her as quite fast but not take someone to space before they react fast.



    My point is that Captain Marvel is not only pushing Hela out of the way, but also *fighting her* every step of the way, with energy blasts, strength and durability demonstrably greater than Thanos. Now, with her necroblades does Hela have the advantage in HTH, sure. But to claim that Hela will be able to take down Carol, arguably at par or only a step lower than Hela herself as far as power is concerned, in the mere 10 seconds it will take her to get her out of atmosphere and leave her there is highly unlikely. This is someone who couldn't take down *Valkyrie* in 10 seconds (see what I did there, its the same argument you're using regarding the van in Endgame).
    It's taking longer than ten seconds unless we take that clearly cinematic cut as valid and grant Cap teleportation. However even 10 seconds is an eternity anyway when you're trying to grapple someone that strong and deadly into space. If Valkyrie tried grappling Hela she'd be dead quite quickly too.

  6. #36

    Default

    Twickster, are you arguing Hela is *only* as durable as a building? Or less then?

    If you can force your fingers through Mjolnir, that's clearly not true. It's stupid durable. Like Hulk pulling on it doesnt even /slightly/ bend the handle. Hela straight up shatters the big ol block o metal.

    Thor's lightning has messed up stuff more durable then buildings (space whales) so I'm not sure what your point is. This bolt was clearly more powerful. You should judge it on how it affected Hela. Not how the accidental sidescatter did or did not explode a city.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  7. #37
    New and Improved hulahulk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,571

    Default

    I always thought Hela's Mjolnir feat was more mystical in nature, not just physical strength. Since she's Odin's first born, then she would have a mystical link to it, as did Thor. Although she probably wasn't Worthy, I would guess since she could shatter it, she could manipulate it in other ways, like lifting it. We'll never know what the writers thought beyond what we see in the movie and through interviews. And I kinda agree with both sides in this thread
    Last edited by hulahulk; 06-16-2019 at 06:44 AM.
    Original join date: sometime in 2002

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •