The Justice Society of America Finally Returns

[CaptCleghorn]

I unfortunately disagree on that point.

DC Universe: Rebirth #1 from back in 2016 seemed to indicate that was when Johnny claimed Thunderbolt and the rest of the JSA vanished, but three years later, it looks like Geoff Johns either forgot about that or is ignoring it now?
Looking through (but not buying a copy) of Doomsday Cluck #10, didn't it seem like Geoff Johns was now (then?) having Thunderbolt disappear as far back as the events of All-Star Comics #3, the first meeting of the JSA? And if Johns and his all-things-GL-fixation is implying that if Alan Scott died when Dr. Manhattan moved the lantern and never became Green Lantern, then the JSA ceased to ever be (though how Alan was GL for that picture in DC #10 is confusing), that would also contradict what Johnny thought/said back in DC Universe: Rebirth #1.

We could certainly discuss the writing tools used by Johns in the Rebirth special. But he did have both Manhattan's mechanization and the HUAC hearings in the issue. And using that as well as the Chekov's gun aspect of Johnny's scene gives it some importance. Now if that has changed with editorial manipulations, it MIGHT be different. But it seems to make a lot more sense to think that actual story content is more important than cynical speculation.

Which is something Wally seems to have remembered while still in the Speedforce (or wherever he was prior to DC Universe: Rebirth #1), but which may no longer apply due to the machinations of Dr. Manhattan, and may not even be remembered by Wally any longer the longer he's been in the changed DC Universe and away from the protection of the Speedforce.

Jay and Wally having Speed Force stays is a tough one to work through without knowing what writers are thinking. But Wally remembers a scene with Jay and Jay remembers a relationship with Barry in The Button. A Jay that the DC Universe remembers is alluded to twice (maybe more depending on what is happening in Flash.

I don't even know if Geoff Johns will do/resolve anything regarding the JSA in the remaining two issues of Doomsday Cluck. Issue #11 is still currently listed as "In Shops: Aug 14, 2019" on Previewsworld, and I'm still not aware of #12 being solicited yet. (Don't know how likely it would be to make it out in September of this year.)

Since Snyder's using them starting in September's Justice League, Geoff Johns may not be doing anything more about the JSA after that point, because that would be one more headache to coordinate with an on-going story.

DClock has had severe timeliness problems. But with an issue scheduled for August, it's no surprise DC isn't soliciting an issue of a bi-monthly comic for September. I expect a solicit for DClock #12 with October's books. As to the Green Lantern thing, Alan Scott being the alpha of the golden age JSA crew, that is pretty much a James Robinson idea from Golden Age and Earth 2. Manhattan saw the shift in characters and relative importances with the JSA in DClock (reading books helps) and a removal of GL from the golden age makes some story sense. Johns may very well have a GL fixation, but the consensus seems to be that Alan Scott's a substitute for Clark Kent.

[dr-brainwave]

Also, regarding all the post-Golden Age members/heroes you talked about, first we have to see how much of the JSA's past gets "restored" before worrying about the later generation members. There had been rumors that DC might just time-jump the Golden Age members to the present, and if that happens, then the Legacy kids may never have been born in the first place.

Assuming the original members gets time-jumped, DC can easily reintroduce most of the kids: Stargirl, Michael Holt, Captain Marvel, Brainwave Jr, Atom Smasher, Northwind, Powergirl and Huntress (as survivors from an alternate universe) Sand, Cyclone and many others.
But i have to admit that bringing back Jade, Obsidian, Fury and Silver Scarab would be tricky.

[MajorHoy]

. . . DClock has had severe timeliness problems. But with an issue scheduled for August, it's no surprise DC isn't soliciting an issue of a bi-monthly comic for September. I expect a solicit for DClock #12 with October's books. As to the Green Lantern thing, Alan Scott being the alpha of the golden age JSA crew, that is pretty much a James Robinson idea from Golden Age and Earth 2. Manhattan saw the shift in characters and relative importances with the JSA in DClock (reading books helps) . . .

If you're referring to my not reading Doomsday Cluck, I'm quite happy that I never wasted my time nor money on that convoluted mess.
I was actually going to buy #10 because people made it sound like it was significant / important towards a return of the JSA, but when I actually looked it over and saw how little a role they actually had, I decided to save my $4.99 and just read those few pages in the store.

. . . and a removal of GL from the golden age makes some story sense. Johns may very well have a GL fixation, but the consensus seems to be that Alan Scott's a substitute for Clark Kent.

Be that as it may, Robinson's focus on Alan as a Superman-substitute in the New52's faux-JSA in Earth 2 should not (at least in my opinion) play any part when it comes to the return of the JSA in main continuity. (Don't remember where else Robinson may have played up Alan so much.)
And from my standpoint, Jay Garrick is equally as important to the JSA as Alan. Alan should not overshadow Jay in terms of "significance" since Jay's Flash came before Alan's Green Lantern.
In the published comic book stories, Flash, Hawkman, and Johnny Thunder appeared about six months before Green Lantern. Sandman was about one year ahead of Green Lantern; Spectre was five months earlier; Hourman came about three months before Green Lantern; and Doctor Fate made his grand entrance about two months prior to Alan as Green Lantern. (Al as The Atom was the only one of the original eight who didn't have his first feature until after Alan.)
And in the past, there were those who felt that Doctor Fate was a closer analog to Superman than Alan's Green Lantern.

[CaptCleghorn]

If you're referring to my not reading Doomsday Cluck, I'm quite happy that I never wasted my time nor money on that convoluted mess.
I was actually going to buy #10 because people made it sound like it was significant / important towards a return of the JSA, but when I actually looked it over and saw how little a role they actually had, I decided to save my $4.99 and just read those few pages in the store.

Be that as it may, Robinson's focus on Alan as a Superman-substitute in the New52's faux-JSA in Earth 2 should not (at least in my opinion) play any part when it comes to the return of the JSA in main continuity. (Don't remember where else Robinson may have played up Alan so much.)
And from my standpoint, Jay Garrick is equally as important to the JSA as Alan. Alan should not overshadow Jay in terms of "significance" since Jay's Flash came before Alan's Green Lantern.
In the published comic book stories, Flash, Hawkman, and Johnny Thunder appeared about six months before Green Lantern. Sandman was about one year ahead of Green Lantern; Spectre was five months earlier; Hourman came about three months before Green Lantern; and Doctor Fate made his grand entrance about two months prior to Alan as Green Lantern. (Al as The Atom was the only one of the original eight who didn't have his first feature until after Alan.)
And in the past, there were those who felt that Doctor Fate was a closer analog to Superman than Alan's Green Lantern.

You're free to read or not read DClock but if you haven't read it, your comments on it aren't to be taken seriously.

As for the appearances of characters and their relative importance to the history of DC's JSA progression, those answers may be found in the last two issues of DClock. You're certainly free to assume the timing of the stories' publication corresponds exactly to their occurrence, but that's not necessarily how the stories went. Anyone actually reading DClock 11 and 12 may find out. Or they may not.

As to Superman substitutes, they may be a lot of theories and beliefs. I listed two mentions by Robinson. Irpon Munro was another, but I don't know of any more defined than Robinson's use of Alan Scott.

[BatmanJones]

You're free to read or not read DClock but if you haven't read it, your comments on it aren't to be taken seriously.

And yet no one comments on it more.

[DrNewGod]

And yet no one comments on it more.

Opinion without information: It's The American Way.

[CaptCleghorn]

And yet no one comments on it more.

The Major generally has a firm handle on what he's talking about.

[MajorHoy]

Seriously, all of you sarcastic people: all I was interested in from Doomsday Cluck was if/when it meant a return of the JSA to the DC Universe. Not just hints. Not flashbacks to altered pasts. And as far as I'm aware, after 10 issues in eighteen months, it didn't deliver.

Snyder will be doing that in his Justice League.

As far as I'm concerned, this doesn't count as the "return" of the JSA:

[CaptCleghorn]

Seriously, all of you sarcastic people: all I was interested in from Doomsday Cluck was if/when it meant a return of the JSA to the DC Universe. Not just hints. Not flashbacks to altered pasts. And as far as I'm aware, after 10 issues in eighteen months, it didn't deliver.

Snyder will be doing that in his Justice League.

As far as I'm concerned, this doesn't count as the "return" of the JSA:

Yep, you want the JSA YOUR way. And you get a LOT of mileage about bitching about delays. You've said that again and again and made a point in numerous threads about how you're not reading the series. And when people actually find other aspects of DClock to discuss you make a point to remind seasoned readers that they don't know what will happen in issues that haven't come out yet. We're well aware of your opinion on the series. There is much more to this series than your pinpoint focus and complaining about DClock.

[MajorHoy]

Yep, you want the JSA YOUR way. And you get a LOT of mileage about bitching about delays. You've said that again and again and made a point in numerous threads about how you're not reading the series. And when people actually find other aspects of DClock to discuss you make a point to remind seasoned readers that they don't know what will happen in issues that haven't come out yet. We're well aware of your opinion on the series. There is much more to this series than your pinpoint focus and complaining about DClock.

And yet, this is a thread about the return of the JSA.

So, I can't complain about Doomsday Cluck not bringing back the JSA in a thread on the return of the JSA?

[CaptCleghorn]

And yet, this is a thread about the return of the JSA.

So, I can't complain about Doomsday Cluck not bringing back the JSA in a thread on the return of the JSA?

Yes, it is. People are discussing the possibilities from Doomsday Clock and how they connect with a Justice League solicit. People are correctly pointing out that the preponderance of "I'm not reading Doomsday Cluck and it's late" posts adds nothing to the conversation.

[Kyer]

Aw crap! I thought this thread was updating their reappearance and now I get the gist that ain't so. (Also, I could swear I did this almost exact same reply on the same kind of thread many moons ago...)
Do they have something against Jay as well as Wally or what?
Are they trying to make me start disliking anyone with the last name of Allen?

[MajorHoy]

Aw crap! I thought this thread was updating their reappearance and now I get the gist that ain't so. (Also, I could swear I did this almost exact same reply on the same kind of thread many moons ago...)
Do they have something against Jay as well as Wally or what?
Are they trying to make me start disliking anyone with the last name of Allen?

The thread was started to discuss that Scott Snyder is going to be using members of the JSA in his Justice League as part of a story where some JL members travel to the past. That starts in September.

Beyond that, we don't really know much else yet.

[DrNewGod]

The Major generally has a firm handle on what he's talking about.

Yes, he does.

[Stingo]

More news about the return of the first super team...

https://www.cbr.com/interview-scott-...ustice-league/