Starfox Appeciation!

[Hekabolos]

Possible...but I don't know why they would refer to that as a "new book" currently, when UNCANNY is still being published currently and there have been no announced plans to end it any time soon.

Who knows. I've given up trying to understand Marvel's marketing concerning new, not new but new number 1, same but with a new writer, etc. books. It just seems that, with Axis, the major through story in UA is coming to an end, leaving it in the sort of place they would typically relaunch a book.

It could be relaunching but the new book they are talking about is something else, though. If that's the case then I would bet on a Wanda solo.

Yeah, Wanda would be the main mutant he's dealt with--he served with her for about 20 issues when he first joined (#233-254) and then later they were on the same squad for Operation: Galactic Storm. But while human/mutant relations may not be something he has a personal stake in, I think Eros would certainly be an advocate of the concept of unity.

Yeah. I agree that Eros' powers and ethos would make him a good advocate for unity. I do, however, also think that given fans...visceral reactions to the unity team, it's mission and it's membership having someone with no prior connection to the idea of mutant rights like Eros could end up backfiring on him. Returning after so long an absence, Eros really needs to be reintroduced to the majority of readers, and I question whether UA is the right venue for that. A more traditional Avengers team might be better suited for him to return to.

Yeah, I tend to ignore them as well...and frequently end up surprised when they end up making impacts on continuity, or bringing back under-used characters like Jack of Hearts or Jocasta.

Jocasta? Man, the Zombie books really mine the obscure characters, don't they? That said, she should probably be added to my "severely underutilized and desperately in need of a return" list. The Avengers do seem to have a lot of those, don't they?

[Dermie]

Yeah. I agree that Eros' powers and ethos would make him a good advocate for unity. I do, however, also think that given fans...visceral reactions to the unity team, it's mission and it's membership having someone with no prior connection to the idea of mutant rights like Eros could end up backfiring on him.

Possible. But if part of the point of the whole unity squad concept is to bring the mutants more into the fold, and show everyone (both in the superhero community and in the general populace of the Marvel U) that the mutants can work alongside everyone...then the roster should be able to include any Avenger. After all, it somewhat defeats the purpose if its only the heroes who have connections to the mutant community.

Returning after so long an absence, Eros really needs to be reintroduced to the majority of readers, and I question whether UA is the right venue for that. A more traditional Avengers team might be better suited for him to return to.

You may be right...although, its funny. In some ways UNCANNY feels more like a traditional Avengers team to me than the actual AVENGERS book. I appreciate Hickman's AVENGERS in its own way (and even moreso Spencer's AVENGERS WORLD, which allows more time for character exploration), but UNCANNY and MIGHTY AVENGERS are the two that feel to me the most like the classic Avengers books I grew up with.

Actually, MIGHTY is a book I wouldn't mind seeing Starfox in. He's got ties to some of the cast already (Monica and She-Hulk) and he might get along well with Blue Marvel, who seems to have an affinity for cosmic beings (like his friendship with Uatu). And it would help undermine the people who try and dismiss that book as "the black Avengers" (even though She-Hulk, Spider-Man and White Tiger are NOT black, and Power Man is mixed race...but why let little things like facts get in the way of trashing a book?)

Jocasta? Man, the Zombie books really mine the obscure characters, don't they? That said, she should probably be added to my "severely underutilized and desperately in need of a return" list. The Avengers do seem to have a lot of those, don't they?

Yeah, Jocasta co-starred in one of the Zombie series...she and Machine Man were teamed up to go into the Zombieverse since they didn't have any flesh and were not at the risk a human team would be. Although Jocasta WAS badly underused for a long time, she's actually made something of a comeback in recent years. In addition to her ZOMBIES appearance, Dan Slott brought her back to active duty in THE INITIATIVE and then moved her over to his MIGHTY AVENGERS series. After that she became a regular cast member in the AVENGERS ACADEMY series, and since then was a supporting character in the recently-cancelled AVENGERS A.I. series.

And getting back to Starfox...here is a panel that jumped out at me as I was reviewing his appearance in Operation: Galactic Storm:
sensitivestarfox.jpg

It jumped out at me for two things.
1) the "lover AND a fighter" comment. A nice reminder that Starfox IS a warrior and not to be under-estimated. People do have a tendency to think of him as a lover first (understandably so, of course), but it never hurts to remind people that he earned his Avengers membership for his help in battle--he didn't audition for membership on a casting couch...

2) the "he's just sensitive" remark. In light of our discussions of Eros' probable pansexuality, and our look at some of his moments of homoerotic subtext, that line really struck a chord. Its the sort of thing you hear people say about their friend or relative that people suspect is gay; "oh, no, he's not gay--he's just sensitive". I don't know if either Thor II or writer Roy Thomas were looking at it from that angle at all, but that's what it made me think of. And it was especially interesting that such a comment was coming from Thor II--who has only just barely met Starfox (and as the rookie of the group, its a little ballsy of him to be making comments like that at all about more experienced Avengers--but then, Thor's tendency to speak without thinking was getting him into trouble all over the place in that arc).

[CaTigeReptile]

Ahh, I have the recolored version of that panel, but the original there is so much better!

I've been gone the past few days because I have a new job. I'll catch up soon.

Though I do think that panel was intended to say he was courageous, that's a fun angle. But it's true - Eros, for as loving as he is, does like to kick ass when the mood strikes him.

[CaTigeReptile]

Ahahahaha I called it - I called the gritty reboot! He's so burly though, I don't like that.

It kind of reminds me of this slight redesign from one issue of Maximum Security (since I'm on my phone and not at home I don't know the specific series/issue number)





Basically got rid of the collar and the "arrow to the crotch" part of the white. Also his body is bulkier. (Well sometimes the collar was drawn in but it was supposed to be a turtleneck.)

I really don't see this new version of him, based on the costume, as retaining any of the "softer" (that is, interesting and unique) elements of his personality. Oh well, hopefully if other creators get a hold of him they'll refine him a bit.

[MollyBarton]

"arrow to the crotch" HA!

I hope he won't turn into joyless jerk. But he's had plenty to be bitter about...

[Hekabolos]

Ahahahaha I called it - I called the gritty reboot! He's so burly though, I don't like that.

Basically got rid of the collar and the "arrow to the crotch" part of the white. Also his body is bulkier. (Well summery I sometimes the collar was drawn in but it was supposed to be a turtleneck.

I really don't see this new version of him, based on the costume, as retaining any of the "softer" (that is, interesting and unique) elements of his personality. Oh well, hopefully if other creators get a hold of him they'll refine him a bit.

I like the new outfit. I think I would need to see it in color to make any final judgments, but I like that it's essentially the original with a new collar and a few added details.

He's definitely much bulkier than I would like, but maybe it's just the concept art and in the book he'll be slimmer? One can always hope.

As for his personality in this incarnation, I've already mentioned my concerns about the writer, so I won't belabor it here, other than to say that RR as a writer has a tendency to force characters into fitting his plot, not plots that fit the characters, which always makes me nervous when he takes on a new story.

[Dermie]

Ahahahaha I called it - I called the gritty reboot!

Hmmm. I dunno--I don't see anything I'd particularly call "gritty" about the redesigned costume. It really just looks like a few tweaks on the existing design, imo.

He's so burly though, I don't like that.

We'll have to wait and see how it looks coloured, and not as just a sketch. I can't quite decide if that burliness is really there, or just an illusion of the 'camera angle' or something. At one glance, he does look bulkier...but then I take another look and go "no, not really...his arms don't seem any more muscular than usual", etc. I think its the thighs...I think they look a bit thicker than usual.

It kind of reminds me of this slight redesign from one issue of Maximum Security (since I'm on my phone and not at home I don't know the specific series/issue number)

That would be AVENGERS vol.3 #35...an issue which I was sadly disappointed in, due to the art. That must be the worst art that Starfox has been subjected to thus far (and the same for poor Monica as well, who ended up with a horribly disfigured hand in one panel...). I was so glad that the ad-hoc team from AVENGERS: INFINITY was going to stay together for an extra storyline, and was excited to see Busiek writing them...but Romita's art just butchered it, imo. He was only a one-issue fill-in, and you could tell his work for that issue was rushed.

"arrow to the crotch" HA!

Starfox's at least was more subtle--take a look at Jack Of Hearts for a VERY blatant "arrow to the crotch" costume design...

I hope he won't turn into joyless jerk. But he's had plenty to be bitter about...

True. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. A change of costume does not necessarily mean a change of personality. It could be nothing more than simply the man pulling a different outfit out of his wardrobe for a change of pace.

[CaTigeReptile]

Hmmm. I dunno--I don't see anything I'd particularly call "gritty" about the redesigned costume. It really just looks like a few tweaks on the existing design, imo.

Kneepads. Rubber grip soles on the boots. Facial hair scruff/apelike face. Body armor lines all over the place. That's gritty in my book.

We'll have to wait and see how it looks coloured, and not as just a sketch. I can't quite decide if that burliness is really there, or just an illusion of the 'camera angle' or something. At one glance, he does look bulkier...but then I take another look and go "no, not really...his arms don't seem any more muscular than usual", etc. I think its the thighs...I think they look a bit thicker than usual.

Compared to Opena's Valentines day picture of Eros, the arms are a lot thicker - but the hands are also huge, as are the feet. I think he's been bulked up.

That would be AVENGERS vol.3 #35...an issue which I was sadly disappointed in, due to the art. That must be the worst art that Starfox has been subjected to thus far (and the same for poor Monica as well, who ended up with a horribly disfigured hand in one panel...). I was so glad that the ad-hoc team from AVENGERS: INFINITY was going to stay together for an extra storyline, and was excited to see Busiek writing them...but Romita's art just butchered it, imo. He was only a one-issue fill-in, and you could tell his work for that issue was rushed.

Haha, thanks! But no way is it the worst! That Quasar issue with him in it, though oh man do I love the story, is way worse. In one of Starfox's best lines in my opinion, he has no eyebrow. Also that issue of Warlock and the Infinity Watch is pretty bad. Oh, and you CAN'T forget that horrible horrible issue of Avengers Unplugged. Ah, and Silver Surfer Annual #5, another one of my favorites but with godawful art. Actually that one gets my vote for worst art.

Oh man, for someone who's supposed to be so good looking, he sure gets drawn ugly a lot.

True. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. A change of costume does not necessarily mean a change of personality. It could be nothing more than simply the man pulling a different outfit out of his wardrobe for a change of pace.

I'm gonna jump the gun here and say that he's not gonna be a cutie-pie anymore.

I have a lot to say about all the posts I missed about Unity and stuff but it's late and I can't think much right now

[Dermie]

Kneepads. Rubber grip soles on the boots. Facial hair scruff/apelike face. Body armor lines all over the place. That's gritty in my book.

I suppose, but body armour doesn't HAVE to mean "gritty". Thor and Hercules have both added more armoured elements to their costumes on occasion without it indicating a change to a grittier portrayal. I think "apelike face" may be an exaggeration too. :/

Compared to Opena's Valentines day picture of Eros, the arms are a lot thicker - but the hands are also huge, as are the feet. I think he's been bulked up.

Possibly. But it is also only a sketch--and one designed to showcase the outfit tweaks. So he may be "inflated" a bit to provide a better view. We'll have to wait and see how it looks in proper art.

Haha, thanks! But no way is it the worst! That Quasar issue with him in it, though oh man do I love the story, is way worse. In one of Starfox's best lines in my opinion, he has no eyebrow. Also that issue of Warlock and the Infinity Watch is pretty bad. Oh, and you CAN'T forget that horrible horrible issue of Avengers Unplugged. Ah, and Silver Surfer Annual #5, another one of my favorites but with godawful art. Actually that one gets my vote for worst art.

I dunno--I think the art for this one bothered me more than most of those.

Oh man, for someone who's supposed to be so good looking, he sure gets drawn ugly a lot.

Yeah, the artists haven't always done the best job in that regard, have they? George Perez does a good job of giving him a really great smile though.

[CaTigeReptile]

All I can do is hope you're right.

I like my men pretty. This is important to me, this is where my priorities lie . . . at least when I'm tired.

[CaTigeReptile]

Oh, I remembered what I was going to say. I was gonna thank Dermie for clearing up Operation Galactic Storm for me, because it's been a while since I read it and I just distinctly remember going from the end of the issue where Eros and Lilandra are talking straight to the next issue starting with a giant brawl. I was like "what just happened this makes no sense"

So, in honor of Eros's redesign's enormous camel tail, I present to you year-old fanart which I look at and see things I'd want to redo because who DOESN'T do that when they see their art:





Starfox being foxy with a fox, okay? It was a request.

Also I use male lingerie models as references, which I feel is appropriate okay

[MollyBarton]

Wow! I love it. "Hey! My eyes are up here!"

[Dermie]

Oh, I remembered what I was going to say. I was gonna thank Dermie for clearing up Operation Galactic Storm for me, because it's been a while since I read it and I just distinctly remember going from the end of the issue where Eros and Lilandra are talking straight to the next issue starting with a giant brawl. I was like "what just happened this makes no sense"

You're welcome.

So, in honor of Eros's redesign's enormous camel tail, I present to you year-old fanart which I look at and see things I'd want to redo because who DOESN'T do that when they see their art:



Starfox being foxy with a fox, okay? It was a request.

Very nice! Of course, if the 2nd picture was a nighttime scene, you could have the stars reflected in the water and have Starfox being sexy under the stars with a fox!

I like my men pretty. This is important to me, this is where my priorities lie . . . at least when I'm tired.

LOL. That seems a reasonable priority.

[MollyBarton]

Very nice! Of course, if the 2nd picture was a nighttime scene, you could have the stars reflected in the water and have Starfox being sexy under the stars with a fox!

Oh, that would be perfection.

[CaTigeReptile]

You're welcome.



Very nice! Of course, if the 2nd picture was a nighttime scene, you could have the stars reflected in the water and have Starfox being sexy under the stars with a fox!

Oh, that would be perfection.

Well I guess I'll have to draw another picture when I have the time.