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  1. #76
    Quivering Euphoric Blob CaTigeReptile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Ok, you've hit me with another one I can't place!! lol What book is that one from?
    Marvel Zombies. He's a zombie!



    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    True...but some end up showing better than others.




    Quote Originally Posted by Chia Head View Post
    Woah, this us turning into a round robin fic. I think this is the first ever fic of Eros.
    Not so! There are like three that mention him. And I might have written a story or two about Eros, Mar-Vell and Elysius having stupid adventures post-Thanos death, pre-Marv-death.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chia Head View Post
    So... I'm very curious as to what Remender has in mind for StarFox. Maybe we'll get more info soon.
    I think that's what we all wanna know! I wanna know! I doubt we'll get more info. But something else I do want to know is if Elysius is going to play a role. I mean I know that if Eros is like C or D-list, then Elysius is like F-list, but I really like her and do not want to see her put in the refrigerator, even if it's to give my favorite character mangst.

    Did anyone buy/read Infinity Revelation? I'm not so sure I'm interested in it, because (outside of the meta-critique of the comics industry I've heard is in there which I will say is clever) it seems to just be the same old Thanos and Warlock being the Most Powerful and Important People Of All Time, with some quasi-philosophical pontification because they're also the Smartest and the Most Enlightened. It makes me so sad that Starlin doesn't really care about Eros or even about Mentor at this point, and that he hasn't in 20 years, because when you also explore the "real-life" (lol) aspect of a character so grandiose as Thanos - like his childhood and family and relationships and development - it adds nuance and interest to a character that otherwise runs the risk of being flat and pretentious.

    But if Eros is in it I might have to check it out.

    I just already know he isn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by MollyBarton View Post
    Then Cap butts in- "My shield isn't the hardest thing in this room, wink wink nudge nudge say no more." Eros and Dane: "OOooooooo, Cap, you tease!"
    This is some fine literature. I approve.


  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaTigeReptile View Post
    Marvel Zombies. He's a zombie!
    Huh. I had no idea that Eros had been in one of those books. Of course, they've done so many by now, I suppose everyone has turned up at some point or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaTigeReptile View Post
    I think that's what we all wanna know! I wanna know! I doubt we'll get more info. But something else I do want to know is if Elysius is going to play a role. I mean I know that if Eros is like C or D-list, then Elysius is like F-list, but I really like her and do not want to see her put in the refrigerator, even if it's to give my favorite character mangst.
    She may be there in a cameo, but I doubt she'll play a major role. But at least she's alive again, since Peter David brought her back in his CM run. The last time she turned up was at the start of the QUASAR miniseries starring Phyla, when she informed Phyla that Genis was dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaTigeReptile View Post
    Did anyone buy/read Infinity Revelation? I'm not so sure I'm interested in it, because (outside of the meta-critique of the comics industry I've heard is in there which I will say is clever) it seems to just be the same old Thanos and Warlock being the Most Powerful and Important People Of All Time, with some quasi-philosophical pontification because they're also the Smartest and the Most Enlightened. It makes me so sad that Starlin doesn't really care about Eros or even about Mentor at this point, and that he hasn't in 20 years, because when you also explore the "real-life" (lol) aspect of a character so grandiose as Thanos - like his childhood and family and relationships and development - it adds nuance and interest to a character that otherwise runs the risk of being flat and pretentious.

    But if Eros is in it I might have to check it out.

    I just already know he isn't.
    Nope, no Eros, unfortunately. Of course, given the thrashing people like Quasar and Ronan took in the book, it may be just as well for Eros' sake that he didn't turn up.

    Basically, if you enjoy the work that Starlin has done with Thanos and Warlock, and their relationship, from INFINITY GAUNTLET onward to present day, then this is definitely a worthwhile read--as you suggested, this does revolve around them and their role in the cosmic structure. We do get some guest appearances and cameos from various other cosmic characters (notably Silver Surfer and Drax), but aside from one multi-page fight scene between Thanos and the Annihilators, no one else really gets a lot to do.

    Starlin does spend some time with Thanos' reflecting on his recent history, trying to resolve continuity and characterization from his various appearances by different writers over the last decade or so.

  3. #78
    Quivering Euphoric Blob CaTigeReptile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    She may be there in a cameo, but I doubt she'll play a major role. But at least she's alive again, since Peter David brought her back in his CM run. The last time she turned up was at the start of the QUASAR miniseries starring Phyla, when she informed Phyla that Genis was dead.
    I basically forgot she had died. It was just such a women-in-refrigerators move that I blocked it from my memory.

    And then Phyla died too. What a messed up little family of theirs - something I'd definitely like to see Remender at least acknowledge in Rage of Ultron, since they were kind of Eros's children. (Moreso than they were Mar's, really. He was more like a posthumous sperm donor.) I could discuss the dynamics of that whole situation forever, too. It fascinates me, especially with how, say, Elysius herself came from the life baths and had false memories, too, and with the way Titan seemed to have repopulated so quickly I like to think that the life baths were used to do it - so you've got this entire population of Eternals of all ages with probably thousands of years of artificial memories, and they're all actually just a few years old . . . that's super-cool. Did they "remake" people who had died during the nuclear attack/war? Or did ISAAC create amalgamations based on real events and people? Are their memories completely fake? Did they "wake up" knowing who Mentor and Eros were? (My guess is yes on the latter. I have my own whole headcanon about the life baths, and it goes all the way back to the original Titans - the ones who all died fighting each other with the exception of Sui-San)


    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Nope, no Eros, unfortunately. Of course, given the thrashing people like Quasar and Ronan took in the book, it may be just as well for Eros' sake that he didn't turn up.

    Basically, if you enjoy the work that Starlin has done with Thanos and Warlock, and their relationship, from INFINITY GAUNTLET onward to present day, then this is definitely a worthwhile read--as you suggested, this does revolve around them and their role in the cosmic structure. We do get some guest appearances and cameos from various other cosmic characters (notably Silver Surfer and Drax), but aside from one multi-page fight scene between Thanos and the Annihilators, no one else really gets a lot to do.

    Starlin does spend some time with Thanos' reflecting on his recent history, trying to resolve continuity and characterization from his various appearances by different writers over the last decade or so.
    Yeah, that was the impression I was getting. Lots of use of the word "jobbed" in the review thread.

    I'm calling it that in the next 20 years they'll end up doing an "Eros finally goes all dark phoenix on everyone" storyline and he'll 1HQ Thanos and the Living Tribunal will lol.

    ALSO MOLLY in your fic you gotta make sure Foxy and Cap call Dane "sir" at some point. Because he's a knight. GET IT??/

  4. #79
    Incredible Member MollyBarton's Avatar
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    Aw, man, I suck at writing fic. I'm just throwing out ideas.

  5. #80
    Quivering Euphoric Blob CaTigeReptile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MollyBarton View Post
    Aw, man, I suck at writing fic. I'm just throwing out ideas.

  6. #81
    Incredible Member MollyBarton's Avatar
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    Awwww, Starfox is pouting now. I can try something. I suck at smut, though.

    That butt is inspiring...

  7. #82
    Quivering Euphoric Blob CaTigeReptile's Avatar
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    Excellent. The worse you are, the better this is going to be.

    I can draw stick-figure illustrations.


  8. #83
    Incredible Member MollyBarton's Avatar
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    Starfox: Ooooooo, Sir Dane! Your sword is so big!

    "Sir Dane": On your knees, boys! You need discipline! *whacks their butts with the flat of his sword*

    Cap: Thank you, Sir Dane! May I have another?

    "Sir Dane": Hmmmmm...I'm not sure you've been naughty enough. Why don't you boys show me how bad you can be?

    (Anyone else is free to join in!)

  9. #84
    Quivering Euphoric Blob CaTigeReptile's Avatar
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    That was perfect. I think I just died a little on the inside.

  10. #85
    Incredible Member MollyBarton's Avatar
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    *Starfox does a striptease* How's that, Sir Dane?

    "Sir Dane": Nice. Turn around and shake that ass!

    Starfox: Sir, yes Sir!

    That's all for tonight. I've got to get some sleep!

  11. #86
    Quivering Euphoric Blob CaTigeReptile's Avatar
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    This is why I love Starfox because of course his appreciation thread would end up as a script-based parody of the worst erotica ever, complete with stick figure illustrations. That's the essence of his character.

    In honor of that, take some more wonderful moments where he uses his powers on the luckiest villains. Enemies probably fight over being the one to fight Starfox. "Ha! I bet those pathetic pleasure powers of yours won't work on me! I dare you to try it! . . . . No. Really. Try it. C'mon."


    The origin of my title!


    Starfox no those are robots

    Actually that's pretty much it for his funny innuendo ones, including the Cap one and the Triton one.

    I started rambling about Eros's powers and ability and then started writing about the specifics of the Life-urge Death-urge philosophy and how that allegory should be made relevant again, but I don't have time to finish that right now because I'm going somewhere soon. I'll post it when I come back.

    This thread is the best, literally, because I can get all of my crazy Eros love and my weird, overthought headcanons out of my system and it's all contained in one thread so people can totally skip over it! Best

  12. #87
    Quivering Euphoric Blob CaTigeReptile's Avatar
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    Here it is. Why do I care so much about these stupid characters???

    Some rambling about Eros's powers:

    It's so crazy that he's Thanos's brother but is so hilarious. On the other hand, since we've seen him use his powers to knock people out for hours at a time, and we've seen him use them on Nebula to 'take away her pain' as well as to create a temporary empathic bond between her mind and Firelord's - though we've only seen him do either of those once - I wonder just what he can do and how powerful of a psionic he is. Can he put people into comas with it? Did he use it on his dying comrades on Titan to make their last moments easier? It's not just a joke power, at least it doesn't have to be - it's rather noble, even if not anywhere near the scale of his brother or father in terms of area of effect or magnitude.

    In Operation: Galactic Storm, Eros also showed some transmutation ability. It was very much a Plot Power, but Eros definitely has been used as the Plot Power character before "oh by the way, I can do (insert random power here)!" In that Captain Marvel v3 appearance he does also use telekinesis, and despite Dermie's argument for that appearance being canon I still have my doubts about that. (I don't think he was particularly IC in his second appearance there, either; he lacked that spark of kinda innocence. Like, I can't possibly imagine those stories happening with him drawn normally/in his normal costume. Even down to him suddenly preferring to be called Starfox, whereas before he's regularly told people not to call him Starfox because he prefers Eros.) I like the idea of him being able to use telekinesis on occasion because, like, all Eternals do, but . . .

    I think one intriguing way to do it would be to say he of course has or should have the potential, but something hinders his ability to do these things. Right now the excuse is "oh he's lazy," but I find that a little unsatisfying. There's also the "he purposefully doesn't because he doesn't want to become his brother," which I really like, but also has never been explored in canon at all. But if he's Thanos's counterpart at all (though I guess technically Warlock is supposed to be Thanos's counterpart), then it would make sense that he's inherently weak or impaired in some way, considering how strong and talented Thanos is. Eros might never get powerful because of whatever that is. It also goes back to the (way in the beginning) "life-drive death-drive" thing.

    The Eros-Thanatos thing that they were based on:

    So this is a Freudian theory as we all probably know. Obviously it goes without saying that Freud was a cocaine-fueled misogynist whose ideas warped the popular social views about human nature for nearly a century, but nonetheless that's what they came from - a vague inspiration from a class that an 18 year old kid took in college. Further, the life-drive death-drive theory is considered one of Freud's weakest, and he was pretty much unable to make it consistent or solid. That of course in and of itself is interesting because real life is complex and real relationships change all the time, but basically the reason why it failed to stand on its own two feet was because of its dualistic nature! That is, when exposed to further analysis, his "Eros and Thanatos" concepts turn out to not be in opposition to each other, but actually collapse into each other/use each other/have elements of each other in each other. That's awesome. Why hasn't that ever been explored?

    So even though "Eros" is usually translated as 'sex drive' so seems kind of base, it's actually the drive for love in its entirety. (And it's important to note that the life-drive Eros is not Freud's famous Pleasure Principle, actually, even though that's kind of the direction Eros was taken in.) But it's motivated by Thanatos and cannot exist without Thanatos because it is a reaction to Thanatos. And technically in the same way, the Thanatos too cannot be seen without the Eros.

    You don't see this in the comics with the brothers because Warlock kind of took on Eros's role there, but in my opinion Warlock's yin-yang constituent parts nullify the allegory there - besides, there's a very important difference between the way Thanos and Warlock are done, which is more yin-yang, and the concept of Thanatos and Eros: In the Freudian concept of Thanatos and Eros, Thanatos is more fundamental, powerful and influential than the Eros drive. Eros is constantly motivated and influenced by Thanatos. Thanatos, on the other hand, is not affected by Eros at all. Not even one iota. It exists as it is regardless.

    Like how no matter what we do in life, and how lively we are, and how little we think about it or how desperately we try to ignore it, our inevitable death looms silently in the background. This is cool, why haven't they done anything with it???

    But they of course also collapse into each other in other ways: aggressive violence (Thanatos) being displayed for self-preservation or defending people you love (Eros). And in the comics, of course (though now with Revelation it's kind of a moot point), with the way Thanos loves Death, that's literally the definition of Eros, while his vitriol and anger towards her for not returning the feelings as well as his base desire to cause pain and suffering and death regardless - and iirc for Thanos it really is, like, an urge - well, that's the Thanatos part.

    tl;dr while Freud tried to make the life-urge (Eros) and death-drive (Thanatos) dualistic, equal opposites, he couldn't figure out how, because they're actually kind of jumbled, and the relationship between them is unequal and they sometimes blend together: Eros is influenced by/is a reaction to Thanatos and is unable to influence Thanatos in return; the love of life is just a manifestation of the fear of death etc. This is cool and should have gone somewhere.

    lol you can read some more about the life urge and death urge here if you're also crazy
    Last edited by CaTigeReptile; 08-08-2014 at 02:09 PM.

  13. #88
    Spectacular Member Hekabolos's Avatar
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    Wow. This thread degenerated into smut fast. Not that I don't enjoy the pictures of butts, mind you, I just didn't expect it to go downhill so quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaTigeReptile View Post
    The Eros-Thanatos thing that they were based on:

    So this is a Freudian theory as we all probably know. Obviously it goes without saying that Freud was a cocaine-fueled misogynist whose ideas warped the popular social views about human nature for nearly a century, but nonetheless that's what they came from - a vague inspiration from a class that an 18 year old kid took in college. Further, the life-drive death-drive theory is considered one of Freud's weakest, and he was pretty much unable to make it consistent or solid. That of course in and of itself is interesting because real life is complex and real relationships change all the time, but basically the reason why it failed to stand on its own two feet was because of its dualistic nature! That is, when exposed to further analysis, his "Eros and Thanatos" concepts turn out to not be in opposition to each other, but actually collapse into each other/use each other/have elements of each other in each other. That's awesome. Why hasn't that ever been explored?

    So even though "Eros" is usually translated as 'sex drive' so seems kind of base, it's actually the drive for love in its entirety. (And it's important to note that the life-drive Eros is not Freud's famous Pleasure Principle, actually, even though that's kind of the direction Eros was taken in.) But it's motivated by Thanatos and cannot exist without Thanatos because it is a reaction to Thanatos. And technically in the same way, the Thanatos too cannot be seen without the Eros.

    You don't see this in the comics with the brothers because Warlock kind of took on Eros's role there, but in my opinion Warlock's yin-yang constituent parts nullify the allegory there - besides, there's a very important difference between the way Thanos and Warlock are done, which is more yin-yang, and the concept of Thanatos and Eros: In the Freudian concept of Thanatos and Eros, Thanatos is more fundamental, powerful and influential than the Eros drive. Eros is constantly motivated and influenced by Thanatos. Thanatos, on the other hand, is not affected by Eros at all. Not even one iota. It exists as it is regardless.

    Like how no matter what we do in life, and how lively we are, and how little we think about it or how desperately we try to ignore it, our inevitable death looms silently in the background. This is cool, why haven't they done anything with it???

    But they of course also collapse into each other in other ways: aggressive violence (Thanatos) being displayed for self-preservation or defending people you love (Eros). And in the comics, of course (though now with Revelation it's kind of a moot point), with the way Thanos loves Death, that's literally the definition of Eros, while his vitriol and anger towards her for not returning the feelings as well as his base desire to cause pain and suffering and death regardless - and iirc for Thanos it really is, like, an urge - well, that's the Thanatos part.

    tl;dr while Freud tried to make the life-urge (Eros) and death-drive (Thanatos) dualistic, equal opposites, he couldn't figure out how, because they're actually kind of jumbled, and the relationship between them is unequal and they sometimes blend together: Eros is influenced by/is a reaction to Thanatos and is unable to influence Thanatos in return; the love of life is just a manifestation of the fear of death etc. This is cool and should have gone somewhere.

    lol you can read some more about the life urge and death urge here if you're also crazy
    This is really interesting. I had no idea the two were based off the Freudian example, though it does seem obvious. As for why it has never been explored, I would suggest that:

    1) it has become, for some valid reasons, increasingly uncool to admit to an interest in Freudian thoughts, or to give them enough weight as to actually explore them and

    2) While modern audiences are considered a little more sophisticated, one needs to remember that Eros/Thanos were created back in the early 70s when storylines tended to be kept simpler and easy to digest. The love/death dichotomy may have been thought to be too obscure for the general audience. Instead, Thanos needed a rival/companion that (on the surface) made more sense, a champion of life,. While Eros could have supplied that, I think many would balk at the idea that love=life. Enter Adam Warlock, a man inextricably tied to the idea of the soul and it's eternal existence, in direct opposition to Thanos' desire for utter oblivion. At this point, Warlock and Thanos are so intimately connected, I can't see Eros supplanting Warlock as Thanos' opposite without a great push.

    Admittedly, I know next to nothing about Freudian psychology and/or philosophy (in fact, I hate philosophy with a passion), so I can't really comment on the original concepts, but rather on the urges that may have led to their being hedged around.

    Also: bonus points for understanding that eros does not automatically equal sex, although I might quibble and suggest that, while your definition of "a desire for love in it's entirety" can be correct, it is more correctly a desire to POSSESS something in it's entirety, a concept that has become wrapped up in love in some pretty warped and messed up ways. It can also be defined, if you are Socrates, as a desire to BE an entirety, a desire for the person (or thing) that will complete you. This definition is, in the case of Starfox, more intriguing, given the lifestyle he lives and the amount of loss he has suffered in his life. Is his hedonism merely a search for something he feels he is missing, and what is that missing piece?

  14. #89
    Incredible Member MollyBarton's Avatar
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    *reads last two posts, head explodes* Wow. That's pretty serious stuff and worth exploring. Starfox does seem to have much more depth to him than his usually cheerful personality would have us believe.

    Sorry about the smut, but some of those images were just begging for bad fan fiction!

  15. #90
    Spectacular Member Hekabolos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MollyBarton View Post
    *reads last two posts, head explodes* Wow. That's pretty serious stuff and worth exploring. Starfox does seem to have much more depth to him than his usually cheerful personality would have us believe.

    Sorry about the smut, but some of those images were just begging for bad fan fiction!
    Oh, no. I wasn't complaining about the smut (especially given that it included Eros and Dane, two of the Avengers' sexiest members). I was merely making an observation. Don't let me get in the way of your creative urges. Really. Write more. Write All Of The Smut.

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