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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I'm genuinely thinking that Mon-El is a decedent of the House of El in the 32nd century. Making Jon his ancestor like Clark was to Kent Shakespeare and Laurel Kent. I mean, you'd have to explain the "El" in Mon-El if he's not going to have that name given to him by Clark, yes?
    If you're going to take out his relationship with Clark, then I guess. Makes me wonder what you do with the Lar Gand name, then.

  2. #602
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Makes me wonder what you do with the Lar Gand name, then.
    Probably just not use it since he's more known for being named Mon-El by the general public. The Supergirl show basically did that (but they did pay homage by giving the Gand name to his dad or something)
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  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    It is good and bad for you. It's posible new readers like these "needless" changes. So, it would be good for them.

    The Legion really needs to attract new readers, since the old fans aren't enough to mantain a solo.

    Success of films usually doesn't translate on comics. It seems that does not stop Marvel when trying to create energy with the extremely successful films.
    Again, I feel like it should be pointed out that new readers can be attracted without completely rewriting established continuity and canon. Of course, we don't know for sure that that is what's happening here. If it is, though, its not something that I think is beneficial in the long run. If reading comics for most of my life has taught me anything, its that when new fans jump onto a shiny, gimmicky new direction, they don't tend to stay on for very long.

    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    There's still a lot of interpretation and subjectivity within that - what's "engaging", "inclusive", "needless", "core" or "turn their back on." a lot of room for interpretation and in terms of this Legion, nothing's been released yet, and some fans of the franchise have already written it off.
    I think engaging and inclusive are pretty self-explanatory. Engaging is simply stories that are, well, interesting. Inclusive means stories that include several different/diverse perspectives and people from marginalized populations as key protagonists or at least as important characters.

    For clarity's sake, though, I think it should be defined what the difference is between a reboot, relaunch, and retcon from my perspective:

    Relaunch: simply, well, relaunching a book under a new direction, but with all the past continuity and character developments intact

    Retcon: revealing that something wasn't what was once thought, but while still recognizing the developments that came before

    Reboot: completely and entirely rewriting continuity and wiping the slate clean when it comes to past stories, character developments, etc. and failing to acknowledge any past stories that came prior to a certain arbitrary fixed point.

    We've seen enough from DC to learn that reboots don't really work in the long run (*cough* New 52 *cough*). In fact, they can be quite harmful to a franchise long-term because of the hemorraging of lore and story elements that build up a comic book universe.

    Is this the same Legion that partook in the most famous Legion stories: Great Darkness Saga, Earthwar, etc.? If so, I'm in. If not, I don't know if I will be.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 07-30-2019 at 02:28 PM.

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Probably just not use it since he's more known for being named Mon-El by the general public. The Supergirl show basically did that (but they did pay homage by giving the Gand name to his dad or something)
    I think it was a huge missed opportunity that they didn't just make his real name Lar Gand and Mon-El a fake name to hide he was the Daxamite prince. It would've honestly made more sense then just calling him Mon-El.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it was a huge missed opportunity that they didn't just make his real name Lar Gand and Mon-El a fake name to hide he was the Daxamite prince. It would've honestly made more sense then just calling him Mon-El.
    Sure, I never said the way the show did it made any type of sense, but if he's an actual El from thousands of years in the future in the comics, then everything's gucci.
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  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Sure, I never said the way the show did it made any type of sense, but if he's an actual El from thousands of years in the future in the comics, then everything's gucci.
    All I care about is that he acts and feels like Mon-El. At this point, I guess that's the only thing I can hope for .

  7. #607
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    Since the Legion Jon's going to join live in the 32nd Century instead of the 30-31st Century, I'm beginning to wonder if this Legion are a new generation or descendants of the original Legion.
    No matter how many reboots, new origins, reinterpretations or suit redesigns. In the end, he will always be SUPERMAN

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  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    No one's hands were tied. If Didio really wanted to get rid of him he'd have just gotten rid of him. Believe me I wish he did do that. But there's zero evidence that's the case as if he really wanted to he could have just cut out the middle man and done it wih zero repercussions. So the idea this was a mandate from Didio holds no weight. The simplest explanation here is the most likely: Bendis had a pitch and they accepted it.
    DiDio hates heroes being "aged" by having children (or any other reason), but Jon Kent is/was much more popular than Chris Kent had ever been (for many a reason). Hell, Dick and Wally are only around (in horrible shape, but still) because the readers practically force their existence onto DiDio! I was frankly surprised by how quickly after his pre-planned death editorial had Damian brought back (due to popular demand), but for most of the nEw 52 his existence was ignored almost as much as Tim's connection to Gotham - and outside Super Sons (RIP) and his edgy Teen Titans he hasn't really done much since, either. With Jon aged up and shipped off into the distant future they have ample room to "adjust" how long ago he was born and - at least unless this Legion becomes a gigantic hit and basis for a feature film - mostly ignore his existence in the books set in the 21st century. And I remain convinced that Lois being caught kissing Superman (which is otherwise utterly devoid of story purpose) will eventually serve as the pretext to annull the Lane-Kent marriage, which is a holy grail of DiDio's. Due to all those Robins (and Green Lanterns) I really don't see how they could possibly arrange a believable official timeline with Clark, Bruce et al. any younger than in their late thirties, anyway, but I can't imagine that they would let this stop them from going almost as ridiculous as the nEw 52's "five years ago".
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  9. #609
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Welll first, Jon is not Dick Grayson or Wally West. He's not remotely comparable to either of those classic characters. If Didio had the power to mandate this, it stands to reason he could have just gone the extra mile and gotten rid of him completely. There's certainly every chance he could get away with it in a way they just could never do with Dick, in a way they couldn't when they actually did try it with Wally. Jon is not that special a character by a longshot. He's only circa four years old in publication for goodness sake. And aging Jon up and having him join the Legion doesn't make Superman look any less older, hell it doesn't even remove him from the Superman books according to Bendis. He's gone on record saying that Jon is in every issue of Superman for the foreseeable future, so a removal isn't happening either. Knowing all this, what would Didio be gaining if he was responsible for this because of his dislike of kids and the feeling of aging of the big guns? None of his apparent qualms are rectified by doing this. The theory just doesn't correlate at all with what is actually happening. To anyone's knowledge on the outside, there's just nothing to suggest this wasn't simply Bendis' idea, as opposed to a higher edict.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 07-30-2019 at 07:52 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  10. #610

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    What I said is that I hate Jon as a concept and since he is involved I have no choice to not be onboard. The original context being that other than him and giving Superman's history to him, I'd have had absolutely no other issues with the Legion designs. He's completely botching the Super-influence, and if not for that I'd have been otherwise very happy. That's all I was saying. If all the other stuff is how you feel, its how you feel, you're welcome to those opinions just as I am to my own, but it really has no bearing on the context of my original comment.

    And I really don't see how I should have seen any of this coming. One, I came in not very familiar with Bendis's Marvel work. I came in clean. And indeed have liked many other things he's done while he's been here. Two, no one even knew when or if the Legion was coming back till a few months ago. So to see anything involving them and how they'd be integrated coming would have been virtually impossible. Only thing that people guessed right is the likelyhood that Jon would be a member if and when they came back. And that was just based on past history of how succceding members of the Super family followed in Superman's footsteps. No one could have guessed that Bendis would have made it so there are no footsteps to follow this time because Superman didn't even do any of this stuff anymore in continuity. Which I stand by is basically blasphemy to the mythos (and that I do blame on Bendis in particular, not just the existence of Jon).
    That is what i am saying as well. The "son of superman" concept that existed since the silverage is not the reason clark got shafted from legion. It is bendis's big idea.how can a concept influence people's decisions? You liking jon or not is entirely your business.
    And Ofcourse they will go for a reboot. That's what they do. It's DC. And Supercharacters rarely ever get to stick around. DC likes removing things from its canon than adding to it.

  11. #611
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    The reality is we don't know why Clark got shafted from the Legion. We're not in Bendis's head so its impossible to say (though the silver Age reference is quite inapplicable to today. The Silver Age concept was an entirely imaginary story concept, it never had anything to do with the then main Earth-One Superman and never affected him, so its not really comparable to how the idea of a son affects Superman in the present day). But I'm not issuing blame on every detail and the step-by-step nature of how the pitch came to be, as I don't know the details. All I've said is I like the general Legion designs, and the only reason I'm out is that I'm not a fan of Jon (yes I railed on him more than that but that was an in general) and I'm not a fan of Superman losing his history. The correlation of it all, how it all came together, I don't know and was not intending to come across as speculating. Hell as far as I know if Jon didn't exist maybe Bendis does something similar with Conner or something and I'm still mad. Who knows.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 07-30-2019 at 11:19 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    What I said is that I hate Jon as a concept and since he is involved I have no choice to not be onboard. The original context being that other than him and giving Superman's history to him, I'd have had absolutely no other issues with the Legion designs. He's completely botching the Super-influence, and if not for that I'd have been otherwise very happy. That's all I was saying. If all the other stuff is how you feel, its how you feel, you're welcome to those opinions just as I am to my own, but it really has no bearing on the context of my original comment.

    And I really don't see how I should have seen any of this coming. One, I came in not very familiar with Bendis's Marvel work. I came in clean. And indeed have liked many other things he's done while he's been here. Two, no one even knew when or if the Legion was coming back till a few months ago. So to see anything involving them and how they'd be integrated coming would have been virtually impossible. Only thing that people guessed right is the likelyhood that Jon would be a member if and when they came back. And that was just based on past history of how succceding members of the Super family followed in Superman's footsteps. No one could have guessed that Bendis would have made it so there are no footsteps to follow this time because Superman didn't even do any of this stuff anymore in continuity. Which I stand by is basically blasphemy to the mythos (and that I do blame on Bendis in particular, not just the existence of Jon).
    I mean the Legion has been retconned some times and its connection with Superman has changed. Even the Legion for other member of the Superman family is different.

    Also, Bendis have make some big changes (like Jon's age up). That should have given you a clue that Bendis doesn't mind making big and divisive changes.

    We can see in Young Justice that Bendis doesn't care so much about continuity. Cassie has Zeus's grandaughter origin, but Conner is Clark-Lex clone.
    Last edited by Konja7; 07-31-2019 at 06:19 AM.

  13. #613
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    Well, as long as DC doesn't want Superman to have had adventures as a teen -- it would be very difficult for him to have had adventures with the Legion. No Superboy, no Superboy in the Legion. I grew up in the era of Superboy (actually preferred him to Superman). but those were different times.

  14. #614
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    As someone who has almost no knowledge about the Legion, do anyone think I can get into the new Bendis series? Probably no one knows yet if its reader friendly, or a reboot or a mix of old and new stuff...

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    Well, as long as DC doesn't want Superman to have had adventures as a teen -- it would be very difficult for him to have had adventures with the Legion. No Superboy, no Superboy in the Legion. I grew up in the era of Superboy (actually preferred him to Superman). but those were different times.
    I'm in the same boat.

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