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  1. #706
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    What have you heard?

    I've been following news/updates on Bendis and his books, and I haven't heard him or Sook say anything of their influences or their reference points or if this was just them coming up with stuff. The most I've heard is that they've been in per production with this launch for about a year. If he didn't directly consult someone, then hopefully some from of research was was done or direct inspiration was taken.
    That's what I meant. I haven't read anything about Sook or Bendis consulting any Native Americans on Dawnstar's design. Maybe they have and they haven't revealed that information yet but thus far there's not indication they.

  2. #707
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    I don't know if I can stand to see one more post about Dawnstar's uniform. As I've said with other designs, I'm sure many of these will change -- especially when a new artist takes over from Sook (I would guess within the first year). In today's climate, superhero costumes have about as much longevity as an ice cube on a summer's day.

    That said, I'm not a fan of the new design, but I'm at least glad that some version of the character is being used. And let's hope she has actual feathered wings -- and not light-energy wings or whatever was shown in the initial design pic.

  3. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    And now she could very likely just be from either a fictional tribe or, since it's the 32nd century, a fictional tribe that started as Anasazi? Possibly even because DC giving Dawnstar a real life tribe and then dressing her like playboy centerfold in a whitewashed, Village People Halloween costume may not have been the best idea ever.
    Dude, again, you're just engaging in mental gymnastics to justify something you like. Dawnstar is not from some fictional tribe. She is Anasazi. End of story. If Lee and Kirby had said that T'Challa and his family were from the Ewe tribe and then portrayed them the way they did, that absolutely would have been seen as hella racist by the majority of people today. Although, again, you could absolutely make the argument that their portrayal of African tribal culture in he 1960s was stereotypical.

    And its ironic that you keep bringing up the Village People Halloween costume comparison when her new costume is more like that than her old costume ever was.

    Yes. I did. To specifically illustrate the point that Black Panther and all of it's warpaint, deciding political elections through fights with spears and fist, and communing with a panther gods exist on the biggest stage possible and vast majority of people didn't call it racist.
    This is literally a whataboutism you're engaging in here, but I don't think it works in this scenario. Again, for one, I could definintely imagine someone having an issue with Wakanda's portrayal of African culture and making the argument that it was stereotypical if that's what they believed.

    However, for the third time, Wakanda is fictional. the issue with Dawnstar is a bit different since her heritage is actually of a real tribe that exists in the world. This new design could definitely be seen as a) mocking that tribe and their customs and b) blending their aesthetics with the aesthetics of other Native cultures because they're "similar enough."

    So I don't see why this Dawnstar image, as a singular image, would be racist. Whitewashing--as in removing the implied cultural touchstones-- would be more problematic conceptually. I'd have been made at Black Panther if it didn't proudly emphasized its inherent culture with and without its advancements. I can't speak for Native Americans, but on principle, I have to imagine there's overlap there.
    Dude, whitewashing does not mean what you think it means in this context. It wouldn't be whitewashing Dawnstar to simply give her a costume that wasn't extremely stereotypical. Several of her old looks managed to do that. This new costume, however, is one of the most offensive things I've ever seen.
    Last edited by Green Goblin of Sector 2814; 08-07-2019 at 05:32 AM.

  4. #709
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    What's messed up is that I don't even particularly like the costume or really have any personally strong feelings regarding it.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  5. #710
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    That's what I meant. I haven't read anything about Sook or Bendis consulting any Native Americans on Dawnstar's design. Maybe they have and they haven't revealed that information yet but thus far there's not indication they.
    Well, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...

    Also, responding to other sentiments on this thread, not all face paint is war paint - it's used in other contexts for empowerment. Blue in particular can represent sky or water (most likely sky for Dawny) and is also a color that has been used to adorn peace pipes. That's about as much as my limited knowledge can offer...

  6. #711
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolf36 View Post
    The color version of Millennium #1 & 2 is out now.

    I can't believe they actually gave Timber Wolf a tail. WTF!

  7. #712
    Extraordinary Member Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    I can't believe they actually gave Timber Wolf a tail. WTF!
    That's not Timber Wolf. He's in the lower right corner.

  8. #713
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    Noticing now that the image is in color, the new Dr. Fate and the Skull-faced guy aren't in this new group shot.

  9. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbp1972 View Post
    Noticing now that the image is in color, the new Dr. Fate and the Skull-faced guy aren't in this new group shot.
    That’s a bummer; I was kind of looking forward to finding out more about skull faced guy.

  10. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    That's not Timber Wolf. He's in the lower right corner.
    To be honest, I thought it was Timber Wolf at first as well .

  11. #716
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    That's not Timber Wolf. He's in the lower right corner.
    Well, thank goodness for small blessings. I saw his emblem and thought Timber Wolf, but I guess that guy could also be connected to Vixen. On second and third glances it looks like the Tantu totem.

  12. #717
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    This never a bad idea. That said, I on principle agree with Christopher Priest when he says that since he's a writer he should be able to write whomever wants so long as he does the leg -work and researches his subject. So I very much respect it when I see Bendis make it a point to get David Walker to co write a young black character, or when he's handing over Amethyst's solo to a mystery female writer. Write whomever you want, but always remember to share the mic.
    A book like Legion could possibly end up with 30 writers. One for each character.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  13. #718
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    Considering Bendis history of overly decompressed stories, and based off their similar builds, I wonder if we will be seeing a multi-issue arc about Matter-Eater Lad and Timber Wolf arm wrestling or weight-lifting.

  14. #719
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    No, but I fully expect a double-page spread with 34 panels of ME-Lad eating something from start to finish.

    Also a lengthy talking-head sequence of Wildfire that emphasizes how he has no facial expressions.
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 08-09-2019 at 01:28 PM.

  15. #720
    Wolfy Supreme TimberWolf's Avatar
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    I don't love Timber Wolf's new bulky look. One of his main powers is super acrobatics and he looks far too bulky to do acrobatics. I guess he still could but I don't think it will look as cool.
    Please Remain Calm

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