Long Live The Legion!!! Legion of Superheroes: Millenium with Bendis and Sook An

[Konja7]

Exactly. Tolkein didn't have to 'reboot' the Lord of the Rings after every book to make it 'easier to understand' for people who didn't remember all those characters and locations and events and persnickety details about elven linguisitics or halfling culinary habits from the previous books.

The richness of the setting *was part of the appeal* not 'a barrier to entry.'

OK. I understand you dislike the way DC have handle their properties. However, you don't need to compare pretty different media.

Not to mention that you only need some books to enjoy the richness of the setting by Tolkien, which is pretty accesible for new readers.

Stories of books are destined to end at some point (unlike superheroes comics), so they don't need to worry about being accessible for new readers (series with more than 10 books are intimidating for new readers).


DC and Marvel want to attract new readers, because they will need them in the future, since the stories are infinite.

[WonderScott]

Based on what I've read so far, Bendis seems to be approaching the Legion in a creatively smart and strategic way being focused on including a huge cast of characters and addressing the issues of today through the lens of sci-fi ideas and tropes and topping it all off with action and adventure and space opera elements.

Sign me up for all of that, as it brings a freshness to the IP.

If I were AT&T and WarnerMedia, I'd be looking to the Legion IP as a challenger to Disney's Star Wars and Guardians of the Galaxy properties, in film and animation, for its unique blend and take on superheroes, sci-fi, space opera, YA Bildungsroman, and ties to the 21st century world of superheroes that we're familiar with, but is ancient history to the Legion and their world. Much like Johns did with Shazam in the pages of Justice League, I'd be looking for a refresh of the concept that comic readers can enjoy (or argue about whether or not they enjoy it), but ultimately can be used to launch them successfully into other mediums that tend to attract a lot more fans and $$$ than the medium of comics is going to.

I'd guess that's why they had King join DuVernay in developing the New Gods screenplay. So he can infuse and combine a bit of his sensibilities from his critical darling, Mister Miracle, with her ideas and plans.

[Sutekh]

OK. I understand you dislike the way DC have handle their properties. However, you don't need to compare pretty different media.

Actually, you have a point there.

I could compare the Legion and it's future-setting and decades of history with other comic book properties. Wonder Woman could be made 'more relatable' or 'accessible' or whatever by trimming away Paradise Island and just having her be a metahuman, born to human parents in some American city. Ditto Black Panther, with all those 'unrelatable' Wakandans that have developed around him over the years. Trim them all away and have him be some guy from Chicago who has panther-related super-powers because of a weird reaction to an energy drink or something. Lots of comic book characters have elements attached to them like magical made-up homelands, or dead alien parents, or 'happened to be the only kid of parents who died when I was a child and left me a billionaire with own company, which somehow manages itself while I do other stuff and disappear randomly for years at a time, and exists primarily as an infinite supply of free cash for me to use on extra-curricular activities.' And yet, for the most part, there's not a push to reboot these characters and get rid of fantastical elements like Atlantis or Krypton or the dozens, if not hundreds, of side-characters and setting elements and backdrops like the Daily Planet or whatever in an attempt to streamline the character, or make their book more relatable or easier to jump onto for the vast, vast, vast majority of fans who haven't been reading Batman since the 40s and don't already have an encyclopaedic knowledge of everyone who has ever been Robin, or that his mother's name was Martha, and could be, theoretically, driven away by all the history, or overwhelmed by all these ancillary characters or setting elements that have grown up around Batman over his many decades.

Instead, sensibly, these elements have been embraced. Wakanda and Themiscrya may indeed have been some of the more beloved elements of the recent Black Panther and Wonder Woman movies (even the barely-mentioned Martha Wayne got her name checked recently), and yet I still see people suggesting removing the Legion from the future-setting, and using only eight or so of them in the present-day setting, which, to me, makes about as much sense as promising a story about Aquaman, and then getting rid of Atlantis and Mera entirely, and writing a book in which only Arthur Curry's left leg appears.

For a generation of fans growing up with rich massively developed fantastic settings like the Star Wars universe or the 'world' of Warcraft, and, despite marketing underestimating them, possessed of the attention spans necessary to appreciate them, I don't see having a big bold bright future setting full of characters and worlds and history as anything other than a rich source of IP to pillage for story ideas.

It's a feature. Not a bug. Something to be run towards, not away from.

You could build a Star Wars. Just keep adding more and more to the original, and let the universe get bigger and bigger. Or you could build a Star Trek. Reboot from time to time, and trim away elements each time to keep it fresh. Which makes the most money? (And I say this as someone who prefers Star Trek to Star Wars. One franchise is just better managed, IMO, and doesn't run away from all of it's big glorious spectacular history. The other seems obsessed with retelling the same stories with younger actors, over and over.)

[Konja7]

Actually, you have a point there.

I could compare the Legion and it's future-setting and decades of history with other comic book properties. Wonder Woman could be made 'more relatable' or 'accessible' or whatever by trimming away Paradise Island and just having her be a metahuman, born to human parents in some American city. Ditto Black Panther, with all those 'unrelatable' Wakandans that have developed around him over the years. Trim them all away and have him be some guy from Chicago who has panther-related super-powers because of a weird reaction to an energy drink or something. Lots of comic book characters have elements attached to them like magical made-up homelands, or dead alien parents, or 'happened to be the only kid of parents who died when I was a child and left me a billionaire with own company, which somehow manages itself while I do other stuff and disappear randomly for years at a time, and exists primarily as an infinite supply of free cash for me to use on extra-curricular activities.' And yet, for the most part, there's not a push to reboot these characters and get rid of fantastical elements like Atlantis or Krypton or the dozens, if not hundreds, of side-characters and setting elements and backdrops like the Daily Planet or whatever in an attempt to streamline the character, or make their book more relatable or easier to jump onto for the vast, vast, vast majority of fans who haven't been reading Batman since the 40s and don't already have an encyclopaedic knowledge of everyone who has ever been Robin, or that his mother's name was Martha, and could be, theoretically, driven away by all the history, or overwhelmed by all these ancillary characters or setting elements that have grown up around Batman over his many decades.

Instead, sensibly, these elements have been embraced. Wakanda and Themiscrya may indeed have been some of the more beloved elements of the recent Black Panther and Wonder Woman movies (even the barely-mentioned Martha Wayne got her name checked recently), and yet I still see people suggesting removing the Legion from the future-setting, and using only eight or so of them in the present-day setting, which, to me, makes about as much sense as promising a story about Aquaman, and then getting rid of Atlantis and Mera entirely, and writing a book in which only Arthur Curry's left leg appears.

For a generation of fans growing up with rich massively developed fantastic settings like the Star Wars universe or the 'world' of Warcraft, and, despite marketing underestimating them, possessed of the attention spans necessary to appreciate them, I don't see having a big bold bright future setting full of characters and worlds and history as anything other than a rich source of IP to pillage for story ideas.

It's a feature. Not a bug. Something to be run towards, not away from.

You could build a Star Wars. Just keep adding more and more to the original, and let the universe get bigger and bigger. Or you could build a Star Trek. Reboot from time to time, and trim away elements each time to keep it fresh. Which makes the most money? (And I say this as someone who prefers Star Trek to Star Wars. One franchise is just better managed, IMO, and doesn't run away from all of it's big glorious spectacular history. The other seems obsessed with retelling the same stories with younger actors, over and over.)

A rich setting is not a problem or what make the characters "inaccesible" for new readers. The problem is that you have to read MANY comics to understand this rich setting and the story.

Elements were embraced for the film, but this was just ONE film. This isn't intimidating for a new audience.


Also, Star Wars goes against your point. Disney decided all the Star Wars Expanded Universe (created during many years) should be separated from the main continuity when they were creating the new trilogy.

Now, Star Wars have expanded material for the current Universe, but you would only need some films to enter on this story.

In the movies, it is a constant concern that your audience does not need to know a lot of external material to understand the subject.

[DavidRA]

If this latest reboot fails, I'm not sure how the Legion can continue. I am completely underwhelmed by the news of this latest incarnation. I'll suppose I'll have to give it a go, but I fear it will fail.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

If this latest reboot fails, I'm not sure how the Legion can continue. I am completely underwhelmed by the news of this latest incarnation. I'll suppose I'll have to give it a go, but I fear it will fail.

The Bendis reboot will fail if it makes the same mistakes that the previous reboots did, but I hope Bendis understands why they failed and will avoid those pitfalls.

It's not that the Legion is so complicated to get into. There's a lot of stuff there, but if it's introduced in small chunks the way things were introduced in the Silver and Bronze Ages, then it's digestible.

Start the series as a superhero adventure that just happens to take place in the future. Don't lean too hard into all the alien cultures and politics right away.

Also, in this day and age where everyone wants their comics to "matter," don't isolate the Legion from the rest of the DC Universe. I think having Jon travel back and forth is a great way to make the Legion seem more relevant to everything else that's going on at DC.

I think the past reboots made the mistake of trying to recreate the Levitz Legion from issue 1. That's the wrong way to do it. The Levitz take is not where you start. It's where you end up after years of world building. Hopefully, Bendis understands this.

[byrd156]

A rich setting is not a problem or what make the characters "inaccesible" for new readers. The problem is that you have to read MANY comics to understand this rich setting and the story.

Elements were embraced for the film, but this was just ONE film. This isn't intimidating for a new audience.


Also, Star Wars goes against your point. Disney decided all the Star Wars Expanded Universe (created during many years) should be separated from the main continuity when they were creating the new trilogy.

Now, Star Wars have expanded material for the current Universe, but you would only need some films to enter on this story.

In the movies, it is a constant concern that your audience does not need to know a lot of external material to understand the subject.

Disney threw out the Legends stuff but it's still there and it's own thing. They have been building a new canon that has tons of great stuff in it.

[Konja7]

Disney threw out the Legends stuff but it's still there and it's own thing. They have been building a new canon that has tons of great stuff in it.

I know this.

However, my main point is you don't need to see or read any of these extended canon to understand the story in films. They mantain the films enough independent from the rest of canon. So, they're pretty accessible for new audience.

[Korath]

I know this.

However, my main point is you don't need to see or read any of these extended canon to understand the story in films. They mantain the films enough independent from the rest of canon. So, they're pretty accessible for new audience.

I'll go one step further : most of Star Wars' fanbase didn't read the book, either because they don't even know they exist or because they have no inclination to do so anyway. That's why if the great evil behind TFA had been Thrawn or C'baoth and treated as if the series or book of Legends were necessary to understand what had happened, a lot of people would have been throw off from the get go.

If every reader needs to not only read the new LoSH book but also peruse wiki, or old issues of older series one may or may not like for a lot of reasons, or simply be disinclined to do so (I personally really don't like that, which means that a lot of ancient series escape me, but I have no attchement to them, and plenty of old Bandes Dessinées at home if I want to read comics with dated costumes and plots), then the series will suffer a blow which isn't needed.

A fresh start, even if it may alienate older fans, isn't necessarily a death knell. Telling new readers "come back once you've read the X decades of stories which came before to understand anything" would be, however.

[H-E-D]

Exactly. Tolkein didn't have to 'reboot' the Lord of the Rings after every book to make it 'easier to understand' for people who didn't remember all those characters and locations and events and persnickety details about elven linguisitics or halfling culinary habits from the previous books.

The richness of the setting *was part of the appeal* not 'a barrier to entry.'

To be fair, I don't think LotR is a good comparison from a publishing perspective. It's a single work of prose published in three volumes 64 years ago. The Legion is a work serialized monthly for nearly as long as that.

That being said, I do agree that I think reboots are unnecessary, even if your aim is accessibility. Accessibility is defined by how the book is written, not how much backstory exists. For an ongoing, monthly book, you can't write every issue assuming everybody has encyclopedic knowledge of the book and expect the book to be accessible to new customers. But it isn't necessary to change the history, just how you write new material.

[caj]

Any more news or previews of the Bendis Legion that anyone has seen? I'm ready for more.

[Frontier]

Preview of Legion of Superheroes: Millenium #2, with some new Legion designs.

[Frontier]

[Zero Hunter]

Jesus the designs just keep getting worse and worse. Dawnstar is such a horrible sterotype it is not even funny and poor Element lad looks like he is made of sludge.

[Frontier]

I can't tell if Dream Girl still has a leotard and it's just downplayed with her clear body or if she's really just naked .

I think Matter-Eater Lad is a bit too much.