Long Live The Legion!!! Legion of Superheroes: Millenium with Bendis and Sook An

[warzon]

They always say be careful what you wish for.as much as I love the Legion i'm going to have to pass on this.hope the JSA fair better.

[CaptCleghorn]

This is my primary frustration as well. I love the idea of Clark's old buddies getting into mischief with his son, but for him to be taken out of the equation kind of sucks. There's that bit about them being from the 32nd century, but it's still Garth, Imra and Rokk. Feels wrong, man.

There's something odd and somewhat creepy about your high school friends becoming your son's high school friends. Seeing my son deal with my old HS friends when they're adults is fine, a little weird, but fine. Somehow having him back with them at the time is thought-provoking at best. But that's why time travel stores are so popular. There's a gamble, but the payoffs for a sucessful, popular one is extraordinary.

[Zero Hunter]

They always say be careful what you wish for.as much as I love the Legion i'm going to have to pass on this.hope the JSA fair better.

That is where I am at now. I have read almost every Legion book ever published. From the original to the reboot to the threeboot and then the retroboot I have stuck around because I loved the characters and the team. There is not one thing I have seen or heard about this new run that makes me want to pick it up. This to me looks like a book for people who don't like the Legion or any kind of history. Basically the "Legion for Dummies" version of the property. It might sell just on Bendis name, but once he leaves his fans will leave with him and the book will be cancelled again. When you can't even keep the die hard Legion fans on board your book is not going to last very long, but the damage will be done. I hated what Waid did with his Threeboot, but I still bought it because I wanted to support any Legion title. I can not do that with this new take.

I hope all you new kids who never read the Legion before read and enjoy this book, but it is just not a version of the Legion I care about and I doubt it lasts very long.

[skyvolt2000]

If the "barrier to entry" is a myth, why there are so few new readers in superheroes comics.

The fact that DC or Marvel try to make stories more accessible for new readers (not that they actually achieve it) proves that they think a certain barrier exists.

The reason for that is there is a BATTLE over WHO gets to be the entry point for new readers.

Someone who sees Bumblebee in Teen Titans Go and likes her so much to want to read up on her-gets a RUDE awakening to see there is NOTHING with her in comics. Reader lost.
Same with Young Justice kids-Static is not around. For a while nor was most of that cast. Readers lost.
Legends of Tomorrow cast-how many of them are in books? Readers lost.
Black Lightning daughters-MIA in comics. Readers lost.
Cyborg on Doom Patrol-he's CRAPPY in the comics. Readers lost.

Shuri in Black Panther-LINE starts to the right throwing fits about that book being MADE.
Stranger Things-FITS throw that the MOST WATCHED SEASON ON NETFLIX got 2 different comic book series.

No one wants to accept ANY BOOK can be used to get new readers. ANY BOOK. Problem is books like Shuri, Stranger Things and so on attract folks but entitlement behavior of fans or disinterest in characters by management CHASE them off.


There is NO barrier. Once upon a time you picked up a book and READ it, You did NOT care about the previous history if you liked the book. Because that history is in FLUX due to new characters being created.
Now we have so many resources-there is no barrier. Unless one is just so lazy to not want to look it up.

[Frontier]

There's something odd and somewhat creepy about your high school friends becoming your son's high school friends. Seeing my son deal with my old HS friends when they're adults is fine, a little weird, but fine. Somehow having him back with them at the time is thought-provoking at best. But that's why time travel stores are so popular. There's a gamble, but the payoffs for a sucessful, popular one is extraordinary.

On-top of that Jon looks way more like his dad now. It's kind of weird.

[Superlad93]

There is NO barrier. Once upon a time you picked up a book and READ it, You did NOT care about the previous history if you liked the book. Because that history is in FLUX due to new characters being created.
Now we have so many resources-there is no barrier. Unless one is just so lazy to not want to look it up.

I'm no expert, and by no means have any sort of numbers to back me up, but I have to imagine that a "barrier" or at least the feeling of a barrier has become more of a thing because of the rise of manga and anime in the 21st century. Most kids of my generation (I'm in my 20s) and beyond picked up Naruto or One Piece before we ever even dreamed of sitting down to read a Superman or Batman comic. And with Manga you have one book to worry about forever till it ends. You wanna get into it? Simply start at chapter one. There are some times continuations or even reboots, but they're pretty clear about it and are usually their own thing. So, I'm not really surprised that today's new readers aren't ones to just pick up issue 307 of something and read without caring about the previous history. A lot of us have been trained not be okay with that, and not everyone is interested in doing actual homework just to start to enjoy the thing in front of them. Not everyone has that personality type, and DC probably shouldn't take that personality as the rule.

Comics are tricky because they can sort of brute force their way past that because characters like Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man are so well ingrained in the cultural lexicon that everyone reading feels like they have some ownership and understanding of the characters just through being alive and aware in the 21st century. And more characters are joining those ranks like more or less due to superhero's multimedia dominance, but then you've got harder to crack properties like the Legion. They have no multimedia footprint, have been out of publication for a number of years now, are essentially totally new characters with no legacy back to the more known heroes like Batman, Superman, Flash, or Wonder Woman and the Justice League, and have a setting that's totally divorced from the real world.

So, I've come to the conclusion that DC picks its battles when it comes to what they feel comfortable with starting over and what they feel like just continuing. The Legion nearly being its own universe, I feel is something that you might wanna start from scratch because it's so inherently dense even if you start from zero, and it can only get more complex by its very nature.

[KangMiRae]

They always say be careful what you wish for.as much as I love the Legion i'm going to have to pass on this.hope the JSA fair better.

Oh my God, I'm getting less and less excited for the Legion by the reveals! These new designs are so off-putting! I really hope the JSA doesn't suffer the same fate!

[Superlad93]

Just a thought: Bendis may be going for a "it all counts, but also doesn't" sort of way.

So, at this point I feel comfortable talking Doomsday Clock spoilers, and in the latest issue we learned that from 1939 all the way till now "counted"/happened on Earth-0. Superman showed up in 1939 the first time and joined the JSA. But then time rewrote itself and Superman's first appearance happened later and later, and everything shifted along with it. Then over in Bendis' Young Justice we see that inhabitants of other worlds in the Multiverse are becoming more and more aware of the continuity changes to Earth-0 because they directly affect them too since Superman and Earth-0 are the linchpin of the Multiverse. Then I saw these pictures from DC: Millennium





You notice how even though it's the current day continuity we still see what is clearly a very classic Cyborg on a Teen Titans team with a young Dick Grayson and older Raven? Notice how we see Flashpoint Aquaman and Wonder Woman on display?

Is it possible that by Booster Gold's time the world at large is well aware of the reboots to their world and the Multiverse? I mean, I feel like that's a fairly likely thing, right? They invent fairly common time travel after all, so it stands to reason that someone would've found out about all these shifts.

So, maybe the Legion has some idea that they an incarnation of them used to be a thing in another timeline? Even if that's not the case, it at least firmly says that technically there was an incarnation of the Legion in the 30th and 31st centuries as far as the DCU is concerned, and this, similar to how the Clark we have now is technically just a new version of the 1939 one, is a new Legion with a new history.

[kcekada]

Not sure how I feel about Element Lad's but I like the rest just fine. Dawnstar is a little overdesigned.

E-Lad's new looks is easily the worst of all the designs. Creative...yes. Good...no.

I kinda like ME Lad's new look. Reminds me of when Cockrum made Star Boy beefy with a square jaw. Dream Girl -- sure, why not? Dawnstar -- not great, but not horrible. Superboy - not a fan of armored look. Blok -- well, it's Blok -- but some pants would be nice.

From that cover, I'm going to guess that the purple girl is actually Phantom Girl -- and not Shrinking Violet. If so, that's a disappointing design. I will predict that the girl with the wild 3D specs is Projectra.

[Superlad93]

From that cover, I'm going to guess that the purple girl is actually Phantom Girl -- and not Shrinking Violet.

Someone said that might actually be Triplicate Girl because she has three different colors in her hair for all three of his duplicates?

[Lee Stone]

The reason for that is there is a BATTLE over WHO gets to be the entry point for new readers.

Someone who sees Bumblebee in Teen Titans Go and likes her so much to want to read up on her-gets a RUDE awakening to see there is NOTHING with her in comics. Reader lost.
Same with Young Justice kids-Static is not around. For a while nor was most of that cast. Readers lost.
Legends of Tomorrow cast-how many of them are in books? Readers lost.
Black Lightning daughters-MIA in comics. Readers lost.
Cyborg on Doom Patrol-he's CRAPPY in the comics. Readers lost.

Shuri in Black Panther-LINE starts to the right throwing fits about that book being MADE.
Stranger Things-FITS throw that the MOST WATCHED SEASON ON NETFLIX got 2 different comic book series.

No one wants to accept ANY BOOK can be used to get new readers. ANY BOOK. Problem is books like Shuri, Stranger Things and so on attract folks but entitlement behavior of fans or disinterest in characters by management CHASE them off.


There is NO barrier. Once upon a time you picked up a book and READ it, You did NOT care about the previous history if you liked the book. Because that history is in FLUX due to new characters being created.
Now we have so many resources-there is no barrier. Unless one is just so lazy to not want to look it up.

I think 'barrier to entry' is a concept that's used to avoid saying 'maybe I'm not interested enough in that' or 'maybe that's not for me'.
I'd wager that a lot of readers that don't read something because of a perceived barrier, would likely still not read it if it was to relaunch.

Imagine this...
Phoenix Saga and Dark Phoenix Saga.
X-Men #101 to 108 and 129 to 138.

Now... let's jump ahead about a year to #150.

Now #151 comes out.
A DC reader who already picks up a full load of comics each month has someone tell him how great X-Men is.
"Oh, I don't know. It sounds good... but that's a lot to catch up on. It just seems too hard to get into."

Now, imagine if Marvel relaunched X-Men after #150.
With a brand new #1, new characters, new costumes, no previous reading of X-Men was required, everything from before is kinda shuffled under a rug.
New readers come in, expecting the excitement that the Dark Phoenix Saga buzz promises them to find it's no longer the same book. Because it was relaunched just for them.
They get a great jumping on point, but the book is entirely different and could've been any new title.
And since the Dark Phoenix Saga no longer even matters anymore, there goes the book's previous audience, also.

Now, just replace "X-Men" with "Legion", "Dark Phoenix Saga" with "Great Darkness Saga", "DC" with "Marvel" and re-read that.

[Flash Gordon]

Damn, I've been itching for a LoSH title but the more of this I see the more I realize that this just ain't it.

I might take a look at it, but it's the farthest thing from what I want to see from a Legion book. I want fresh ideas explored.

[protege]

E-Lad's new looks is easily the worst of all the designs. Creative...yes. Good...no.

I kinda like ME Lad's new look. Reminds me of when Cockrum made Star Boy beefy with a square jaw. Dream Girl -- sure, why not? Dawnstar -- not great, but not horrible. Superboy - not a fan of armored look. Blok -- well, it's Blok -- but some pants would be nice.

From that cover, I'm going to guess that the purple girl is actually Phantom Girl -- and not Shrinking Violet. If so, that's a disappointing design. I will predict that the girl with the wild 3D specs is Projectra.

Now i’m More interested in phantom girl.

[mikelmcknight72]

It was FORTY years ago. Time changes.

And I definitively can't get into Marvel because of how complex and ever-shifting their history is. Without the New 52, I wouldn't even have bought a comic, ever, because it is too much of a hurdle to be forced to read books I have no interest in, either because of the way characters are portrayed or the simple designs for whom I have zero prior attachment, just because "If you want to understand issue 624, you just have to read the 54, 67-83 and 222-402, noob!" mentality which i dislike. I did it to read All-Star Superman, hated and was physically repulsed by this atrocious story and the supreme assholic depiction of this "Superman" and swore to never force myself to do that again to "get" a character or a story. This is NOT how you entice new readers. Doing so may satisfy a dying branch of the fandom, who did that as a kid, and grew attached to this kind of things, but that's all it does.

I also find those new designs far superior because they aren't all "Humans but just in funny clothes". Blok is especially great, because he is a living stone, and shouldn't have to follow human standards of beauty or even anatomy. He's a freaking alien ! Same for Chameleon Boy, and I hope other characters will also be more than just color(swapped teens.

Times change was kind of my point. People didn't carp about the history when it actually took serious effort to catch up in it if that was what you wanted to do. Fast forward 40 years. Minimal to zero effort to catch up on the history, at zero cost if you are satisfied with the wikia, and people carp about the history.

[DragonsChi]

Times change was kind of my point. People didn't carp about the history when it actually took serious effort to catch up in it if that was what you wanted to do. Fast forward 40 years. Minimal to zero effort to catch up on the history, at zero cost if you are satisfied with the wikia, and people carp about the history.

Exactly.

Which is why I said it's one of the numerous myths of people who do not really care either way and never really will. It also seems now its one of the many copouts to help some "stay in the conversation" to push other intentions.

I think 'barrier to entry' is a concept that's used to avoid saying 'maybe I'm not interested enough in that' or 'maybe that's not for me'.
I'd wager that a lot of readers that don't read something because of a perceived barrier, would likely still not read it if it was to relaunch.

Imagine this...
Phoenix Saga and Dark Phoenix Saga.
X-Men #101 to 108 and 129 to 138.

Now... let's jump ahead about a year to #150.

Now #151 comes out.
A DC reader who already picks up a full load of comics each month has someone tell him how great X-Men is.
"Oh, I don't know. It sounds good... but that's a lot to catch up on. It just seems too hard to get into."

Now, imagine if Marvel relaunched X-Men after #150.
With a brand new #1, new characters, new costumes, no previous reading of X-Men was required, everything from before is kinda shuffled under a rug.
New readers come in, expecting the excitement that the Dark Phoenix Saga buzz promises them to find it's no longer the same book. Because it was relaunched just for them.
They get a great jumping on point, but the book is entirely different and could've been any new title.
And since the Dark Phoenix Saga no longer even matters anymore, there goes the book's previous audience, also.

Now, just replace "X-Men" with "Legion", "Dark Phoenix Saga" with "Great Darkness Saga", "DC" with "Marvel" and re-read that.

Well Said.

It's the perfect "Cut of your nose to spite your face" scenario.