X-Men Cinematic Universe

[Beaddle]

I don't hate the XCU. I only hate the rebooted movies. The choice made by Simon Kinberg to contunue what was clearly a dead horse franchise after Days Of Future Past and Logan was unjustifiable. Dark Phoenix will go down in history as a special case of self destruction. I don't think it has ever happened before. A movie attempted twice by the same writer and producer and bombing twice.

I am completely convinced Simon Kinberg may have suffered from PTSD after X3 that he never got over. Why else would he think it was a great idea to write and direct the phoenix saga for the second time with one of the worst castings ever. Sophie turner is terrible. Alexandra Ship is a bad actress, The Nightcrawler actor looks like a cosplayer, Tye Sheridan is not Cyclops, Jennifer Lawrence has been bad in every movie she was in since 2015.


Only 9 movies matters in the XCU. The movies that had a closing ending with the original actors from 20 years ago. Kinberg said we can blame him for Dark Phoenix, I will only show him compassion when he admits his wrong doings to the fullest extent of Mutant law.

[Divine Spark]

I don't hate the XCU. I only hate the rebooted movies. The choice made by Simon Kinberg to contunue what was clearly a dead horse franchise after Days Of Future Past and Logan was unjustifiable. Dark Phoenix will go down in history as a special case of self destruction. I don't think it has ever happened before. A movie attempted twice by the same writer and producer and bombing twice.

I am completely convinced Simon Kinberg may have suffered from PTSD after X3 that he never got over. Why else would he think it was a great idea to write and direct the phoenix saga for the second time with one of the worst castings ever. Sophie turner is terrible. Alexandra Ship is a bad actress, The Nightcrawler actor looks like a cosplayer, Tye Sheridan is not Cyclops, Jennifer Lawrence has been bad in every movie she was in since 2015.


Only 9 movies matters in the XCU. The movies that had a closing ending with the original actors from 20 years ago. Kinberg said we can blame him for Dark Phoenix, I will only show him compassion when he admits his wrong doings to the fullest extent of Mutant law.

I don’t like X3 but it was not a bomb.

I hear that Donnor wanted more movies with the original cast and have them fight Apocalypse.

[Beaddle]

I don’t like X3 but it was not bomb.
.

Bombing with the story twice.

I hear that Donnor wanted more movies with the original cast and have them fight Apocalypse

It sounds slightly better than what we got. There is only one bad factor. Apocalypse would have needed a trilogy with the original cast. Seasoned fighters we have seen in battle from the oringal trilogy not the new kids on the block.

[Divine Spark]

Bombing with the story twice.

To be fair, that was mostly the studio’s fault. Yes, both times. With X3 they thought the Dark Phoenix story was too dark and so it became a subplot. With Dark Phoenix it was going to be a two-parter with Jessica as Lilandra but the studio axed that in late pre-production, condensing it into a single film and stuff needed to be cut.

It sounds slightly better than what we got. There is only one bad factor. Apocalypse would have needed a trilogy with the original cast. Seasoned fighters we have seen in battle from the oringal trilogy not the new kids on the block.

It’s better in many ways. The movie was bloated because of the various origin stories and Weapon X scene. With the original cast you don’t won’t have any of those problems.

Would have been cool to see Ben Foster as Death, he is pretty good at playing villains.

[Theleviathan]

I wasn’t policing, I was asking a question.

Because I love the X-men and these movies have largely disappointed me. I want people to love them as much as they did 20 years ago and as much as I still do. What Fox turned them into by the end is an affront to my fandom.

They don't deserve excuses or explanations, they made this bed and those involved deserve the criticism they get. The positives, and there are some, are just far outweighed by the negatives here at the end of this run.

[Mutant 77]

I don’t like X3 but it was not a bomb.

X3 was the highest grossing movie of the original trilogy and, at the time, had a huge resonance. It was a smash-hit, indeed.

[WebLurker]

I don't hate the XCU. I only hate the rebooted movies. The choice made by Simon Kinberg to contunue what was clearly a dead horse franchise after Days Of Future Past and Logan was unjustifiable. Dark Phoenix will go down in history as a special case of self destruction. I don't think it has ever happened before. A movie attempted twice by the same writer and producer and bombing twice.

How was it a dead horse? There was a lot of source material untapped and a new direction set up. If anything, after Days of Future Past was made, the franchise was ready to go places. The fact that some of the movies made after that didn't capitalize on the opportunity as well as could be wished doesn't really change that.

I am completely convinced Simon Kinberg may have suffered from PTSD after X3 that he never got over. Why else would he think it was a great idea to write and direct the phoenix saga for the second time with one of the worst castings ever. Sophie turner is terrible. Alexandra Ship is a bad actress, The Nightcrawler actor looks like a cosplayer, Tye Sheridan is not Cyclops, Jennifer Lawrence has been bad in every movie she was in since 2015.

Funny, I though Nightcrawler was a good match for the original and that Jennifer Lawrence was one of the better actors in the series (although she was given one of the flattest characters in the movies, so it wouldn't exactly take much to be an improvement). Never had anything against Sophie Turner in the role.

Only 9 movies matters in the XCU. The movies that had a closing ending with the original actors from 20 years ago. Kinberg said we can blame him for Dark Phoenix, I will only show him compassion when he admits his wrong doings to the fullest extent of Mutant law.

At worst, the guy made a bad movie; it's not worth holding a grudge over, esp. since the series is getting rebooted, anyways.

[Powerboy]

I think this is a good point and I agree completely with you on judging the movies apart from canon. However, I think the poster was alluding to how the spirit of the comic books wasn't captured often enough. There were moments where it happened across all the movies, even the ones I thought were trash, but it just wasn't consistent enough. And too many characters I cared about got sidelined.

So even though I can judge it apart from what I value about the comics, that part matters too. One thing the MCU and Nolan's Batman did well is that they resonated the characters comic book fans loved in whole new ways so that it appealed both broadly and to the base of fans. I'm not sure the XCU did that after X2, the steam just slowly died out. They came back to check in with DoFP and to say goodbye with Logan, but otherwise it became an afterthought.

This I agree with. If I were to narrow it down to the biggest single mistake, it would be making almost everything so overwhelmingly Wolverine-centric with everybody else being a distant second. If there is one thing I would love to see in the MCU, it would be leaving Wolverine completely out of it at the start and later making him just one of the characters.

[Beaddle]

Funny, I though Nightcrawler was a good match for the original and that Jennifer Lawrence was one of the better actors in the series (although she was given one of the flattest characters in the movies, so it wouldn't exactly take much to be an improvement). Never had anything against Sophie Turner in the role.



.

Reboot Nightcrawler is nothing like the oringal character from X2. Alan Cumming was the perfect Nughtcawler in character and make up. He did not look like a cosplayer. His personality was straight up from the comics. Jennifer Lawrence is a good actress not just in the reboot movies. Her last good performance was in Days of Future Past. Sophie Turner was wrong for the role.

At worst, the guy made a bad movie; it's not worth holding a grudge over, esp. since the series is getting rebooted, anyways

It's worth holding a grudge. He is now responsible for making about 4 bad comic movies. Kinberg is the movie version of Scott Buck. The guy who ruins every tv show when he joins the writing and production team.

[Divine Spark]

Because I love the X-men and these movies have largely disappointed me. I want people to love them as much as they did 20 years ago and as much as I still do. What Fox turned them into by the end is an affront to my fandom.

They don't deserve excuses or explanations, they made this bed and those involved deserve the criticism they get. The positives, and there are some, are just far outweighed by the negatives here at the end of this run.

Well someone asked for an explanation and I gave it to them.

[Beaddle]

To be fair, that was mostly the studio’s fault. Yes, both times. With X3 they thought the Dark Phoenix story was too dark and so it became a subplot. With Dark Phoenix it was going to be a two-parter with Jessica as Lilandra but the studio axed that in late pre-production, condensing it into a single film and stuff needed to be cut.



It’s better in many ways. The movie was bloated because of the various origin stories and Weapon X scene. With the original cast you don’t won’t have any of those problems.
.

Dark Phoenix getting two movies would never have solved the long time problems. Let me pretend for a second that I liked the idea of rebooting the series after Days of Future Past and all the time jumps. A phoenix saga movie would have happened in the 4th entry of the rebooted series. You will need about 3 movies first to build the main characters, establish the core X-Men before approaching the Phoenix saga story. The Phoenix saga is not what you do as a second movie,with a juvenile cast, who never made any good impression in the first film.

Dark Phoenix won't have a first time director either, neither would it have one writer. A movie with the magnitude of that story would require lots of experience and a bigger production team involved in the writing process.

I want to hear more about Laura Donner. Obviously something bad happened between her and Kinberg. He must have phased her out of the series. It was weird to see Kinberg becoming the head runner of the franchise. He somehow managed to convince Fox he could direct and write a X-Men film all by himself. I doubt Donner would have been in agreement with such an idea.

[luprki]

the aging stuff is so good i didn't even realize that was haley atwell as peggy in winter soldier until later i saw a behind scenes and they showed how with make up and cgi they aged her for that scene and the ant-man and civil war scene with douglas and downey looked like they grabbed between takes on war of the roses and less than zero.

wow!!!!!!!

[luprki]

I don’t like X3 but it was not a bomb.

I hear that Donnor wanted more movies with the original cast and have them fight Apocalypse.

Fox screwed up, the First Class reboot was a mistake, Donner was doing a good job with the franchise. Unfortunately, Fox gave control to Kinberg and he drove it into the ground.

[Theleviathan]

Fox screwed up, the First Class reboot was a mistake, Donner was doing a good job with the franchise. Unfortunately, Fox gave control to Kinberg and he drove it into the ground.

I think that's an interesting point to consider.....was it just an overreaction to the results of X3 or Wolverine Origins? Was it being unable to contract the actors for more movies?

A lot of people like First Class (Personally, I don't), but it certainly was the beginning of the end for this franchise. I have read a few articles about the Donner/Kinberg divide but it is definitely a curious shift by the Fox studios.

[Divine Spark]

Dark Phoenix getting two movies would never have solved the long time problems. Let me pretend for a second that I liked the idea of rebooting the series after Days of Future Past and all the time jumps. A phoenix saga movie would have happened in the 4th entry of the rebooted series. You will need about 3 movies first to build the main characters, establish the core X-Men before approaching the Phoenix saga story. The Phoenix saga is not what you do as a second movie,with a juvenile cast, who never made any good impression in the first film.

Dark Phoenix won't have a first time director either, neither would it have one writer. A movie with the magnitude of that story would require lots of experience and a bigger production team involved in the writing process.

I want to hear more about Laura Donner. Obviously something bad happened between her and Kinberg. He must have phased her out of the series. It was weird to see Kinberg becoming the head runner of the franchise. He somehow managed to convince Fox he could direct and write a X-Men film all by himself. I doubt Donner would have been in agreement with such an idea.

From what I heard it sounded more like the Trial of Jean Grey from New X-Men rather than Dark Phoenix.

Although I thought Kinberg’s direction was okay I do agree they should have gotten a seasoned director.

I think that's an interesting point to consider.....was it just an overreaction to the results of X3 or Wolverine Origins? Was it being unable to contract the actors for more movies?

A lot of people like First Class (Personally, I don't), but it certainly was the beginning of the end for this franchise. I have read a few articles about the Donner/Kinberg divide but it is definitely a curious shift by the Fox studios.

From what I’ve read before Logan just about all the original actors wanted to return to their roles. If I had to guess it was because of JLaw’s popularity.