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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I'm sorry reports from the original test screenings before reshoots was this film sucked and what we got afterwards sucked. I have little faith adding more would make this not suck just making seating thru this train wreck longer which would really suck.
    That’s a gross oversimplification. The criticism was towards the third act and Jean dying according to actual reports from Deadline:

    We heard that in one cut, Jean Grey dies, which wasn’t received well. But overall, the major ending change-up, executed in reshoots, entailed going from an intimate ending with Jean Grey (Sophie Turner), Tye Sheridan (Cyclops), and Charles Xavier (James McAvoy) against Jessica Chastain’s Vuk. The feeling from the audience in testing was that they wanted to see all the X-Men heroes fighting in the end.
    https://deadline.com/2019/06/dark-ph...hy-1202629749/

    Nothing about characters not getting fleshed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    We're probably off topic but I'd also caution this: most of whatever new footage you want is likely a replacement for the third act. So while elements of it might assuage certain concerns, they may also open up entire new ones. In fact, that's likely considering what they left cut out they opted (at a very expensive price) to do over.
    Eh, I guess we will just have to wait and see.
    Last edited by The Shape; 06-14-2019 at 08:48 PM.

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    That’s a gross oversimplification. The criticism was towards the third act and Jean dying according to actual reports from Deadline:



    https://deadline.com/2019/06/dark-ph...hy-1202629749/

    Nothing about characters not getting fleshed out.



    Eh, I guess we will just have to wait and see.
    May 2018 this was 3 months before reshoots and they're complaining not just the 3rd act but about story points and elements that ended up in the film we got.

    Last edited by Jokerz79; 06-14-2019 at 09:42 PM.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    May 2018 this was 3 months before shoots and they're complaining not just the 3rd act but about story points and elements that ended up in the film we got.

    Yeah, but I’m not really talking about story points. I’m talking about the final product lacking emotion.

    And that wasn’t the original test screening.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I'm kind of curious if Logan remembers both timelines eventually. Seems to happen to Marty in the Back to the Future sequels, although it's kind of glossed over.
    Why would he?


    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Also, when does Logan take place, really? It doesn't really seem that distinctive from today (Unlike the Old Man Logan comics) but Professor X says that Shane-a 1953 movie-is nearly a "Hundred years old". Maybe it's kind of like the original Mad Max, it's the future and there's been some societal decline but it's not quite the apocalypse yet. Although it could just be Xavier's illness.
    The movie is officially set in 2029 and my understanding is that, excusing some advancements (automated trucks) and expansion of big business, the world is not that much different then it is today. Remember, most of the movie is set on the outskirts of civilization and when they go into the cities, everything's fine.

    My understanding is that "hundred year old" figure (it's actually 76) isn't quite accurate and Xavier's remembering seeing the movie when it came out was something Sir Patrick Stewart threw in based on his own experiences despite it not fitting with the (messy) timeline the previous films had established (not that I think Stewart knew that when filming).

    However, it seems like quite a few sources are now considering Logan to be an AU future (for good or bad), so it some of these details may not matter anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    "Logan" takes place in 2029.
    Actually, in my scenario, it's the end of the original timeline.
    How does that fit with the original timeline ending with Sentinels ruling the Earth, per Days of Future Past? If Logan is part of the original movie continuity, the only place it can fit is at the "end" of the second timeline (e.g. First Class, any of the pre-Vietnam bits from Origins: Wolverine and The Wolverine, Days of Future Past, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix, and the Deadpool movies).
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    How does that fit with the original timeline ending with Sentinels ruling the Earth, per Days of Future Past? If Logan is part of the original movie continuity, the only place it can fit is at the "end" of the second timeline (e.g. First Class, any of the pre-Vietnam bits from Origins: Wolverine and The Wolverine, Days of Future Past, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix, and the Deadpool movies).
    I meant that it fits with the original timeline of my scenario, Timeline 1. In my scenario, there are three timelines.

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatKeaton View Post
    I meant that it fits with the original timeline of my scenario, Timeline 1. In my scenario, there are three timelines.
    Sure, but let's just say that I'm skeptical that the "three timelines" scenario fits the "facts" established in the series proper -- although I will concede that with a messy continuity, it's a bit chancy to try and establish anything, esp. with contradictory statements about the canon (is Logan the future of the Days of Future Past timeline or an AU now?).

    Fair enough if you're just doing your own think for fun, as a thought experiment, or whatever, but I guess the way I think, the fan theory should fit what the films have established rather then overriding canon information to fit an alternative model if its meant to be anything other then headcanon. (But since I won't believe that Bumblebee is anything other then a Transformers reboot irregardless of the evidence against that -- although it does appear that the Powers That Be have decided it is -- I'm not exactly always good about following that myself.)
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  7. #37
    Fantastic Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Good as a whole and its because the first X-men movies succeeded and were well done that the MCU was born. After the Batman and Superman debacles of the 90's no believed superhero movies were viable. X-men (and the Raimi Spiderman films) changed that. The first two movies, especially X2, still hold up and are great comic book movies.

    It started going downhill with Last Stand when it became more about CGI scenes and pushing Wolverine to forefront than good storytelling.

    First Class was a decent film if it was told in a vacuum but its also where the franchise really stopped caring about continuity.

    Days of Future Past was an enjoyable film but very nonsensical since there is no way to make sense of the timelines even with the supposed reset of DoFP.

    Logan despite coming later is the highpoint of the franchise because it was a great story that happened to feature Wolverine whereas most of the other movies were too often just CGI setpieces without any emotional heart behind them.

    The Deadpool movies were great for what they were - satirical live action cartoons.

    Apocalypse was good if viewed in a vacuum with no consideration for the other movies because then you don't have to consider the continuity flaws or lack of aging.

    Dark Phoenix was a second butchering of the Dark Phoenix storyline. Not as bad as the first but not good. Hopefully whatever iteration the X-men eventually get in the MCU avoid the DP storyline.

  8. #38
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    So, is there a possibility of any of the Fox's X-Men actor reprising any of their role for the MCU? I suppose it makes sense not reprise any of them if desiring a completely fresh start.

  9. #39
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    So, is there a possibility of any of the Fox's X-Men actor reprising any of their role for the MCU? I suppose it makes sense not reprise any of them if desiring a completely fresh start.
    Porblay not. The only one with upside is Jackmans Wolverine. But you would get only one movie out of him and it's better to start from scratch. While other actors did a good none were as popular. Xavier and Magneto can be recast 100x easier then Wolverine and already have once.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Not reprising their role, but it will be long enough before there's another X-Men film that one or more of them could do a wink-wink cameo a la Garrett Morris.
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  11. #41
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    Discussing the X-Men films, one thing that strikes me as interesting is X2 is credited as an adaptation of God Loves, Man Kills, though Ultimate X-Men: Return to Weapon X seems to be a stronger influence on that film.

    You've got the opening action scene with Nightcrawler, in Return he's trying to escape Weapon X and in the film he's attacking the Whitehouse on behalf of Strykers Weapon X program, which it is in everything but name. Return features the X-Men being captured and forced to work for the program, in turn being rescued by the brotherhood, the film features several of the young students, Cyclops and Xavier being rescued by a brotherhood/ X-Men team up. The character of John Wraith is a military commander with ominous ties to Wolverines past who wants to recapture him, much like General Stryker in X-2. Features Wolverine and his replacement Sabretooth having a no holds barred fight after Sabretooth torches the last remaining files on Logans past to torment him, similar to Strykers needling Logan about his past to manipulate him and Logans fight to the death with Deathstrike, whom has a healing factor in the film. Both result in the program being shut down, Return through Nick Fury and X2 through the President.

    I think it's safe to call X-2 an adaptation primarily of Return to Weapon X and as an adaptation of that storyline it's fantastic. Just like I consider X-3s Jean storyline more an adaptation of the Ultimate Phoenix canon up to that point and as an adaptation of that it exceeds the original.

  12. #42
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJBopp View Post
    Not reprising their role, but it will be long enough before there's another X-Men film that one or more of them could do a wink-wink cameo a la Garrett Morris.
    Well Actors like Fassbender and McAvoy if interested will end up in the MCU at some point im betting. They are good actor who can do action well on top of it. I'd be cool with Fassbender as Kang and McAvoy as Black Knight or captin Brittain. But yea that's another thread.

  13. #43
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    For those who still care, well, I updated my 3 timelines with info coming from Dark Phoenix.

  14. #44
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    I went to see Dark Phoenix this afternoon with gutter expectations and was pleasantly surprised. It was a decent X-men film. I will miss the Fox X-men quite a bit. I liked the actors and liked the fact that it existed apart from everything else. I'm not too enthused with the prospects of it going over to disney, I don't need Captain Marvel making a cameo every film or any of those dreadful contemporary storylines (anything from around 2005 on) being adapted. That is my opinion anyway, I'm sure it is unpopular and most are excited about Disney X-men.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shape View Post
    That’s a gross oversimplification. The criticism was towards the third act and Jean dying according to actual reports from Deadline:



    https://deadline.com/2019/06/dark-ph...hy-1202629749/

    Nothing about characters not getting fleshed out.



    Eh, I guess we will just have to wait and see.
    X-Men movies are very weird like that, where, despite being a team picture, the climax must be solved by or centered on a lone X-Man (usually Logan back in the day, now Jean). That's always irritated me well before Dark Phoenix.

    Conversely, First Class and Days of Future Past had more involvement by the secondary cast in their final battles, and were better received critically. Correlation =/= causation but that can't be a coincidence, either.

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